EPTA Plea To Mods And We As A Community - Page 2
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monk
United States8476 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On May 02 2012 12:52 SovietHammer wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask this question, and I am not assuming that his stream has been unlisted-he might not have listed himself online on TL today as damage control, ect. On May 02 2012 13:19 NrGmonk wrote: His stream won't be listed for the duration of the ban. Edit - this does not appear to be correct given mod statements in a different thread. | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On May 02 2012 11:20 kerpal wrote: interesting what you say about only responding to reports, would it be helpful then for us (those of us with the report buttons) to report posts similar to those that have been banned? It'd be better for the forum, but during times of overload that might not be good for the mods' souls. | ||
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Boiler Bandsman
United States391 Posts
I'm paraphrasing, but I seem to remember reading that the decision was taken to keep IdrA's stream because "the stream listing is a resource for TL users, and de-listing a pro punishes the users as much as the pro" or something to that effect. That was my understanding of the policy, so I was surprised when Destiny's stream was removed. Can someone enlighten me on this? | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
Edit - That all said a better place for this question is the Automated Ban List thread ("ABL"), where its more on-topic to discuss bans: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95875 | ||
Falling
Canada11367 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 02 2012 14:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote: Can a mod explain this apparent change in policy, or elaborate on the differences between this case and the IdrA 90 temp? I'm paraphrasing, but I seem to remember reading that the decision was taken to keep IdrA's stream because "the stream listing is a resource for TL users, and de-listing a pro punishes the users as much as the pro" or something to that effect. That was my understanding of the policy, so I was surprised when Destiny's stream was removed. Can someone enlighten me on this? Put it this way, you don't piss into the wind. | ||
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Boiler Bandsman
United States391 Posts
Don't take that the wrong way, it was more genuine curiosity than criticism. BTW, for those interested, motbob answered it pretty conclusively in the ABL thread. Short version, IdrA was a longtime TL community member, Destiny really is not (more of a Redditor, I believe). So IdrA gets/got more leeway, and also banning Destiny wasn't really much of a response given how inactive he generally is on here. EDIT: I also really appreciate the accessibility, accountability and really just general quality of the staff here. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the community they've built and the job they do maintaining it. | ||
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Mioraka
Canada1353 Posts
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Mioraka
Canada1353 Posts
I agree with banning destiny for the reasons stated, in fact, I'm not surprised at all. Given my short history here, most of the time there is a thread criticizing an outspoken player like idra or destiny, they would get angry over the flaming in that massive thread, say something offensive, and get banned. What makes me curious is that why did the mods let that thread stay open for such a long time? It's going to stir up a shitstorm, self righteous people are going to write letters to sponsors after reading it, we all know it will for the first moment we saw that thread. It is only a matter of time until destiny say something offensive when subjected to so many retarded posts ( lets not fool ourselves, there are so many people who got banned for saying stupid shit in that thread). The real problem is the ban of his stream. Sure, you need a way to punish him; sure, he deserves some kind of punishment. But like kennegit said about idra, it's us, the viewers who are also getting punished. Most of us don't even care to read about the thread, but now we have to go out of our way to find the stream. This action just contradicts what kennegit said on the state of the game about banning idra. I just feel like its a childish response to a childish act. Edit: about the idra being a veteran argument, I derive from kennegit's explanation that the reason they didnt ban his stream is not about he's a veteran, but because it will be a punishment to both the streamer and the fans. I don't see any difference in this case. Of course, this is your house, but this house is getting to a size that it really affects a lot of people if you hangs the house rule on different cases. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 02 2012 16:59 Mioraka wrote: It was left open because we don't want to close all threads by default that involve destiny. We decided to try to moderate it rather than close it, and well, we ended up having to close it anyway.I agree with banning destiny for the reasons stated, in fact, I'm not surprised at all. Given my short history here, most of the time there is a thread criticizing an outspoken player like idra or destiny, they would get angry over the flaming in that massive thread, say something offensive, and get banned. What makes me curious is that why did the mods let that thread stay open for such a long time? It's going to stir up a shitstorm, self righteous people are going to write letters to sponsors after reading it, we all know it will for the first moment we saw that thread. It is only a matter of time until destiny say something offensive when subjected to so many retarded posts ( lets not fool ourselves, there are so many people who got banned for saying stupid shit in that thread). The real problem is the ban of his stream. Sure, you need a way to punish him; sure, he deserves some kind of punishment. But like kennegit said about idra, it's us, the viewers who are also getting punished. Most of us don't even care to read about the thread, but now we have to go out of our way to find the stream. This action just contradicts what kennegit said on the state of the game about banning idra. Destiny isn't a member of the TL community. He doesn't post a lot as motbob explained. He uses TL for his stream almost exclusively. Any ban of his account and not his stream means that he isn't actually affected because the reason he is coming to TL isn't disturbed. Moreover, the way he treated staff before and after the ban is completely unacceptable. When you come after the people who facilitate your stream being listed you shouldn't expect to get away with it scott free. In this case, while we appreciate that the viewers are also harmed by this action, we have judged that there is more harm by allowing Destiny to stream while banned and hence our decision.I just feel like its a childish response to a childish act. Edit: about the idra being a veteran argument, I derive from kennegit's explanation that the reason they didnt ban his stream is not about he's a veteran, but because it will be a punishment to both the streamer and the fans. I don't see any difference in this case. Of course, this is your house, but this house is getting to a size that it really affects a lot of people if you hangs the house rule on different cases. | ||
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Falling
Canada11367 Posts
But yes, we pretty much knew it would bring out a lot of crummy posters, but we felt it was better to handle it through the banlings and mods. Edit. Plexa already answered. | ||
zatic
Zurich15354 Posts
Why on earth would anyone ban you for this thread? | ||
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DharmaTurtle
United States283 Posts
That said, I think that banning his stream from TL is also too far. If I can quote from Idra's true ban reason: Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220441 It seems to me as though there's a bit of picking and choosing going on. Banning someone from trolling/speaking/yadda is all fine and dandy - the needs of the community are served. But when mods ban to exact punishment, when they actually intend to hurt someone financially through their actions, and a father at that, who uses his income to support his family... I dunno. Especially when coupled with "we do not remove banned pro players from them" it feels somewhat incongruous. Please reconsider. Thank you. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On May 02 2012 01:53 intrigue wrote: yes, you are the sole human being who sees through the veil of bullshit. rise above it and make your stand here buddy boy, it's really admirable! this is the thread where you define yourself! r o f l On May 02 2012 01:55 intrigue wrote: hey, i'm a starcraft player, i understand all the social issues in the world. i think completely expressing myself however i want is fine because people who are offended are mindless pussies.l May 02 2012 02:00 intrigue wrote: guys, i'd like to let you know that i've suffered a bit in my life. that means i know what the world is like. i also never make mistakes, because, as i've mentioned, i've been through some hardship. this qualifies me to make sweeping social critiques that spans way beyond any of our lifetimes. fuck the empty media! I'll be honest and state that despite her valid criticism, this type of response was pretty still petty. I'm okay with leniency/favoritism, but this was very disappointing to read from a staff member. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 02 2012 21:56 Gamegene wrote: If this were the whole story, I would agree with you. However I'm quite happy for a staff member to defend him/herself in this manner if necessary. Intrigues first comment wasI'll be honest and state that despite her valid criticism, this type of response was pretty still petty. I'm okay with leniency/favoritism, but this was very disappointing to read from a staff member. On May 02 2012 01:47 intrigue wrote: To which Destiny replied:while i think it's more dumb than anything else to use racist terms, i'm disappointed that we've already taken off to immediately writing to sponsors again. what the hell are you people thinking? at the very least, get another response from quantic or wait a few days. i'm also disappointed that destiny, for all his "people skills", hasn't learned any PR from the orb situation. people seem to think every complaint threatens them as a unique, proud individual, when a cookiecutter apology can go a long way. if not to the community (god there are some terrible responses in here), then to warden. your fans will still know who you are at the end of the day, and at least nobody will be writing your sponsors. why is this community so stupid sometimes? aren't these obvious conclusions? On May 02 2012 01:50 Destiny wrote: In essence, spitting in the face of someone trying to offer him some (good) advice - and a mod at that.Sorry, "PR"? You want to talk about respect? How about treating a community of people like humans, and not a mindless hive-blob of blithering idiots waiting for you to appease them with hollow, empty, meaningless phrases that everyone finds kosher? You may not like what I have to say, but I will go down in flames screaming nigger/gook/spick/faggot/queer before I ever release a pointless cookie-cutter apology. I'm honestly disgusted and disappointed that you, as a human being, find meaning in these bullshit PR moves that other people make. I'm tired of public figures that stand for nothing, and instead merely try to act as a mirror, reflecting back onto other people whatever it is they want to see. Moving on... On May 02 2012 21:53 DharmaTurtle wrote: I agree with you guys - I hate how Destiny uses racial slurs on stream. The context is that those words are farrrr over the line. That said, I think that banning his stream from TL is also too far. If I can quote from Idra's true ban reason: It seems to me as though there's a bit of picking and choosing going on. Banning someone from trolling/speaking/yadda is all fine and dandy - the needs of the community are served. But when mods ban to exact punishment, when they actually intend to hurt someone financially through their actions, and a father at that, who uses his income to support his family... I dunno. Especially when coupled with "we do not remove banned pro players from them" it feels somewhat incongruous. Please reconsider. Thank you. We are currently discussing this internally. For the time being, however, assume that Destiny will not be featured while banned. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
1: Make an effort to fix your shit. 2: Continue doing the same shit. 3: Go elsewhere. Now, here's the thing. Option one is NOT an admission of error. It's merely making a rational decision to adjust the way you post so that you don't cause friction. I've been working on this one myself lately. Option two, well, it just leads to continued moderation. Option three... it's a shortcut to the end result of option two. As it turns out, there's not a whole lot of better sites out there. I've taken a long break because I was annoyed with moderation, and I still ended up back here, and I ended up back here TRYING TO FIX MY POSTING. Why? Because this site is what it is for exactly one reason. The moderation. Even when, and I do mean when you have problems with the moderation, it's still handy. The fact is, though, if people are going to go elsewhere, they don't have much room to complain about not getting any benefits here. TL isn't being paid to feature Destiny's stream. There isn't a contract, there's no obligation. They have a right to de-feature him, and bear in mind that when they do, they're potentially hurting their own page views per day to uphold the standards of their website. | ||
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Daniri
387 Posts
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zeru
8156 Posts
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NarvisoGG
3 Posts
As DharmaTurtle said, please reconsider. | ||
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