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A Plea To Mods And We As A Community - Page 7

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lyonfront
Profile Joined May 2012
13 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 01:04:09
May 03 2012 00:57 GMT
#121
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:


Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.
Boiler Bandsman
Profile Joined February 2012
United States391 Posts
May 03 2012 01:17 GMT
#122
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:

Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not.


This is directly counter to the moderation staff's only previous statement on the matter of stream featuring, which Dharma has already quoted and you have yet to respond to. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
haileris
Profile Joined January 2011
22 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 01:46:24
May 03 2012 01:41 GMT
#123
Are you guys that dense? Rules do not exist for rules sake.

Let me spell it out to you what's probably going on. Pros operate on different rules becuase they affect the community in a different way. If a no-name gets banned, you can just start a new stream and build up your reputation from scratch in a new name. No big deal. The penalty of a permban fits. A pro player can't do that, as building up their reputation from scratch is impossible (their face is known, so eluding the permban is undermining the decision). For that reason, a permban is unjust and they get more leeway, as any penalty will hit them harder anyway.

If you fuckfaces can't figure shit out, let me spell it out even more clear. TL was fairly obvious that they didn't say anything about Destiny's stream being unfeatured/unlisted for a long time. They can say this is to "discuss" things, but I've seen this stuff enough that I know what's really going on. They're expecting Destiny to apologize for his obviously fucked up behavior.

A quick apology lets all sides to look good and gives an opportunity for all sides to give the impression that they're doing this with full agency and participation. Delaying the decision is a gift to Destiny, if anything at all -- it keeps him from looking craven by apologizing after economic damages occur. Unfortunately, he did not take the opportunity so now we're left with an awkward situation where TL cannot look bad by giving him justification to continue his behavior. It'd take some serious illogical gymnastics to not understand that the social expectation is that after 30 days, Destiny is welcome back on stream and will not overtly be as racist (more than likely a "I'm going to be sort-of racist and hate on TL to save face" will happen and be looked the other way). That's farily obvious on how things will play out.

Let's be clear, Destiny shouldn't be a racist or homophobe on stream, and TL is well within the right to take action. I think the fundamental disagreement here is whether Destiny has any agency in avoiding the TL decision to ban him for 30 days, it's fairly obvious he had a good window of time to work things out.

Now obviously, I am putting words in TL admins/mods' mouth, but I think I am abosultely correct here, as this is how things tend to play out in any community, online or not.

Look, I'm a really big fan of Destiny. I really hope this situation will let him understand others' perspectives. I'm fairly certain if he avoided any racist comments from the beginning, he'd be getting invitations to cast games left and right. He'd be tripping himself over invitations to fly all over the world to talk -- continuing this behavior hurts him more than anything else, and I'm perfectly willing to blow all my social capital with Destiny to push him along as a fan.

User was warned for this post
AzurewinD
Profile Joined November 2010
United States569 Posts
May 03 2012 01:51 GMT
#124
On May 03 2012 10:41 haileris wrote:
Look, I'm a really big fan of Destiny. I really hope this situation will let him understand others' perspectives. I'm fairly certain if he avoided any racist comments from the beginning, he'd be getting invitations to cast games left and right. He'd be tripping himself over invitations to fly all over the world to talk -- continuing this behavior hurts him more than anything else, and I'm perfectly willing to blow all my social capital with Destiny to push him along as a fan.



That's a pretty fair viewpoint.
"...I want more people to be in that state more often, to see things not through the limited and rigid mind or the fearful ego, but through a heart that loves to express and create" - Xiaonan "Glider" Sun
DharmaTurtle
Profile Joined August 2010
United States283 Posts
May 03 2012 06:19 GMT
#125
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.
I went from bronze to platinum in 3 awesome days.
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3632 Posts
May 03 2012 08:42 GMT
#126
Captain Haiku's summary of the situation:

A knight has fallen
Defending right to say gook
ESPORTS is ruined

**

I do think Intrigue's posts were perfect in that thread, seeing as Destiny was trying to cast himself as some shining knight for free speech and the right to offend. Derision is the best way to deal with something like that.
?
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11607 Posts
May 03 2012 09:44 GMT
#127
One further thing I might throw in here is that while people backing mod actions is appreciated, I'm a little uncomfortable of how often 'this is our house' get's thrown around. It is our first commandment, but I don't think that's the first rule to throw back at someone giving website feedback. Even if ultimately that's what it comes down to.
ModeratorWake me up when Trump's term is finished. Slava Ukraini.
lyonfront
Profile Joined May 2012
13 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 13:48:55
May 03 2012 13:47 GMT
#128
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.
ahtf
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden29 Posts
May 03 2012 14:21 GMT
#129
On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining. Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
May 03 2012 14:27 GMT
#130
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining.
Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I agree wholeheartedly, treat Destiny like any other foul-mouthed, non-contributer who only uses TL to promote his stream.

Perm, de-feature, and close threads about him.
ahtf
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden29 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 14:47:52
May 03 2012 14:44 GMT
#131
On May 03 2012 23:27 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining.
Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I agree wholeheartedly, treat Destiny like any other foul-mouthed, non-contributer who only uses TL to promote his stream.

Perm, de-feature, and close threads about him.


Sure lets do it. I don't have a huge problem with it. It will be a problem with the judging. Idra quite often has called people no lifes, idiots etc. Is that offensive enough, or is insulting one person ok?
Incontrol who is against foul language, has the picture "im incontrol bitch" when his stream is offline, bitch is degrading comment against women, should he be defeatured until he removes it?
Alot of players use the word rape, which probably some rape victims have a problem with, should these players be banned?.
Heck some players and commentators use "oh my god" in a way some people will feel is insulting.

Stop trying to censors other peoples language, just don't listen to them. People have a choice to go watch streams, don´t watch destinys stream if you don´t like his language. Do we really need a third party to come in and be a moral judge.

I say that tl should let people say what they want on their own streams or enforce the same rules on all, if that rule you can´t insult people they will have alot of banning to do.


JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 14:50:26
May 03 2012 14:49 GMT
#132
On May 03 2012 23:44 ahtf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:27 JingleHell wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining.
Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I agree wholeheartedly, treat Destiny like any other foul-mouthed, non-contributer who only uses TL to promote his stream.

Perm, de-feature, and close threads about him.


Sure lets do it. I don't have a huge problem with it. It will be a problem with the judging. Idra quite often has called people no lifes, idiots etc. Is that offensive enough, or is insulting one person ok?
Incontrol who is against foul language on his stream has the picture "im incontrol bitch", bitch is degrading comment against women, should he be defeatured until he removes it?
Alot of players use the word rape, which probably some rape victims have a problem with, should these players be banned?.
Heck some players and commentators use "oh my god" in a way some people will feel is insulting.

Stop trying to censors other peoples language, just don't listen to them. People have a choice to go watch streams, don´t watch destinys stream if you don´t like his language. Do we really need a third party to come in and be a moral judge.

I say that tl should let people say what they want on their own streams or enforce the same rules on all, if that rule you can´t insult people they will have alot of banning to do.




Right. IdrA and Incontrol, definitely in the same category of contributions as Destiny. Not quite. But hey, ignore the key part there.

I find it vaguely ironic you tell me not to censor other people's language, when merely uttering that phrase constitutes raw, unadultered hypocrisy. You're trying to censor what you perceive as an attempt at censorship. If Destiny has a "right" to be offensive, there's certainly no room to complain about people's reactions to what he says.

Aside from that, I won't waste effort on a rebuttal to all the words you put in my mouth.
ahtf
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden29 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 14:57:39
May 03 2012 14:55 GMT
#133
On May 03 2012 23:49 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:44 ahtf wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:27 JingleHell wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining.
Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I agree wholeheartedly, treat Destiny like any other foul-mouthed, non-contributer who only uses TL to promote his stream.

Perm, de-feature, and close threads about him.


Sure lets do it. I don't have a huge problem with it. It will be a problem with the judging. Idra quite often has called people no lifes, idiots etc. Is that offensive enough, or is insulting one person ok?
Incontrol who is against foul language on his stream has the picture "im incontrol bitch", bitch is degrading comment against women, should he be defeatured until he removes it?
Alot of players use the word rape, which probably some rape victims have a problem with, should these players be banned?.
Heck some players and commentators use "oh my god" in a way some people will feel is insulting.

Stop trying to censors other peoples language, just don't listen to them. People have a choice to go watch streams, don´t watch destinys stream if you don´t like his language. Do we really need a third party to come in and be a moral judge.

I say that tl should let people say what they want on their own streams or enforce the same rules on all, if that rule you can´t insult people they will have alot of banning to do.




Right. IdrA and Incontrol, definitely in the same category of contributions as Destiny. Not quite. But hey, ignore the key part there.

I find it vaguely ironic you tell me not to censor other people's language, when merely uttering that phrase constitutes raw, unadultered hypocrisy. You're trying to censor what you perceive as an attempt at censorship. If Destiny has a "right" to be offensive, there's certainly no room to complain about people's reactions to what he says.

Aside from that, I won't waste effort on a rebuttal to all the words you put in my mouth.




Well I still dont judge how accepted insults should be after how big contribution they do in other case to the community. Destiny raced 32k dollars for doctors without borders, I think thats the biggest contribtuion the starcraft community has ever gotten. The goodwill for such things are immense. Especially from the scene outside of starcraft which people keeps talking about all the time.

Your second part is just strange. I havn't said you can't write that you think destiny is wrong etc, go ahead do it. Removing his stream and banning him is censoring. Saying that you think his language is foul-mouth and that you think people shouldn't watch him aint censoring. Saying a person is wrong is not censoring. Censoring is to supress someone from speaking.
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
May 03 2012 14:57 GMT
#134
On May 03 2012 23:44 ahtf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:27 JingleHell wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining.
Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I agree wholeheartedly, treat Destiny like any other foul-mouthed, non-contributer who only uses TL to promote his stream.

Perm, de-feature, and close threads about him.


Sure lets do it. I don't have a huge problem with it. It will be a problem with the judging. Idra quite often has called people no lifes, idiots etc. Is that offensive enough, or is insulting one person ok?
Incontrol who is against foul language on his stream has the picture "im incontrol bitch", bitch is degrading comment against women, should he be defeatured until he removes it?
Alot of players use the word rape, which probably some rape victims have a problem with, should these players be banned?.
Heck some players and commentators use "oh my god" in a way some people will feel is insulting.

Stop trying to censors other peoples language, just don't listen to them. People have a choice to go watch streams, don´t watch destinys stream if you don´t like his language. Do we really need a third party to come in and be a moral judge.

I say that tl should let people say what they want on their own streams or enforce the same rules on all, if that rule you can´t insult people they will have alot of banning to do.





Frankly, this type of logic is just childish. You're exaggerating and stretching analogies way too far. The world is not black and white. Some words are stronger than others. Some words are more hurtful than others. Some insults cross the line. Some don't. Society, or in this case, TL mods, decides and it is a common naive view of young people that they are somehow above and beyond societal norms.

Contrary to what is taught in school, words are very powerful. People whose occupations make them public personalities are held to a higher standard. What Destiny said in his stream is unacceptable for any public figure to say. He chose an occupation that puts him in the same league as reality TV stars, athletes, entertainers and other media types.
ahtf
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden29 Posts
May 03 2012 15:02 GMT
#135
On May 03 2012 23:57 andrewlt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:44 ahtf wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:27 JingleHell wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining.
Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I agree wholeheartedly, treat Destiny like any other foul-mouthed, non-contributer who only uses TL to promote his stream.

Perm, de-feature, and close threads about him.


Sure lets do it. I don't have a huge problem with it. It will be a problem with the judging. Idra quite often has called people no lifes, idiots etc. Is that offensive enough, or is insulting one person ok?
Incontrol who is against foul language on his stream has the picture "im incontrol bitch", bitch is degrading comment against women, should he be defeatured until he removes it?
Alot of players use the word rape, which probably some rape victims have a problem with, should these players be banned?.
Heck some players and commentators use "oh my god" in a way some people will feel is insulting.

Stop trying to censors other peoples language, just don't listen to them. People have a choice to go watch streams, don´t watch destinys stream if you don´t like his language. Do we really need a third party to come in and be a moral judge.

I say that tl should let people say what they want on their own streams or enforce the same rules on all, if that rule you can´t insult people they will have alot of banning to do.





Frankly, this type of logic is just childish. You're exaggerating and stretching analogies way too far. The world is not black and white. Some words are stronger than others. Some words are more hurtful than others. Some insults cross the line. Some don't. Society, or in this case, TL mods, decides and it is a common naive view of young people that they are somehow above and beyond societal norms.

Contrary to what is taught in school, words are very powerful. People whose occupations make them public personalities are held to a higher standard. What Destiny said in his stream is unacceptable for any public figure to say. He chose an occupation that puts him in the same league as reality TV stars, athletes, entertainers and other media types.



Well in 29 and work for the state with a lot of contact with the public. I agree with you, but what adults also know is that anyh punishments must be fair and based on the same standards. And you cant punish some and let other pass on a whim.
And your believes about words are not a fact. Destiny seldom use the language he uses on his stream outside of it. Trying to prevent people to use words "society" dosn't like is a trait strong in some countries. The strange things these countries usually don't ahve less racism, crime or anything else.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 15:06:52
May 03 2012 15:04 GMT
#136
On May 03 2012 23:55 ahtf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:49 JingleHell wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:44 ahtf wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:27 JingleHell wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining.
Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I agree wholeheartedly, treat Destiny like any other foul-mouthed, non-contributer who only uses TL to promote his stream.

Perm, de-feature, and close threads about him.


Sure lets do it. I don't have a huge problem with it. It will be a problem with the judging. Idra quite often has called people no lifes, idiots etc. Is that offensive enough, or is insulting one person ok?
Incontrol who is against foul language on his stream has the picture "im incontrol bitch", bitch is degrading comment against women, should he be defeatured until he removes it?
Alot of players use the word rape, which probably some rape victims have a problem with, should these players be banned?.
Heck some players and commentators use "oh my god" in a way some people will feel is insulting.

Stop trying to censors other peoples language, just don't listen to them. People have a choice to go watch streams, don´t watch destinys stream if you don´t like his language. Do we really need a third party to come in and be a moral judge.

I say that tl should let people say what they want on their own streams or enforce the same rules on all, if that rule you can´t insult people they will have alot of banning to do.




Right. IdrA and Incontrol, definitely in the same category of contributions as Destiny. Not quite. But hey, ignore the key part there.

I find it vaguely ironic you tell me not to censor other people's language, when merely uttering that phrase constitutes raw, unadultered hypocrisy. You're trying to censor what you perceive as an attempt at censorship. If Destiny has a "right" to be offensive, there's certainly no room to complain about people's reactions to what he says.

Aside from that, I won't waste effort on a rebuttal to all the words you put in my mouth.




Well I still dont judge how accepted insults should be after how big contribution they do in other case to the community. Destiny raced 32k dollars for doctors without borders, I think thats the biggest contribtuion the starcraft community has ever gotten. The goodwill for such things are immense. Especially from the scene outside of starcraft which people keeps talking about all the time.

Your second part is just strange. I havn't said you can't write that you think destiny is wrong etc, go ahead do it. Removing his stream and banning him is censoring. Saying that you think his language is foul-mouth and that you think people shouldn't watch him aint censoring. Saying a person is wrong is not censoring. Censoring is to supress someone from speaking.


Ah but you told ME not to censor him. You told me not to listen to him. I didn't ban him, I didn't de-feature his stream. Therefore, I didn't censor him.

However, here's the thing you're not seeing. If Destiny has this mystical "right" to say whatever the fuck he wants on his stream, then certainly the TL mods have the SAME mystical right to NOT feature his stream at their discretion. Why? we call it the real world.

Is it fair? Not really, but that also is the real world. Totally unfair.

Also, Destiny raised some money. Who gives a shit? Does that make it ok to do anything you want, as long as you donate some money? Is that why the Holocaust was bad, because Hitler wasn't donating enough to charity? Yeah, that's right, I just brought Hitler into it. Why? Because your argument is so flimsy it doesn't DESERVE better than that to make the point.

On May 04 2012 00:02 ahtf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:57 andrewlt wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:44 ahtf wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:27 JingleHell wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining.
Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I agree wholeheartedly, treat Destiny like any other foul-mouthed, non-contributer who only uses TL to promote his stream.

Perm, de-feature, and close threads about him.


Sure lets do it. I don't have a huge problem with it. It will be a problem with the judging. Idra quite often has called people no lifes, idiots etc. Is that offensive enough, or is insulting one person ok?
Incontrol who is against foul language on his stream has the picture "im incontrol bitch", bitch is degrading comment against women, should he be defeatured until he removes it?
Alot of players use the word rape, which probably some rape victims have a problem with, should these players be banned?.
Heck some players and commentators use "oh my god" in a way some people will feel is insulting.

Stop trying to censors other peoples language, just don't listen to them. People have a choice to go watch streams, don´t watch destinys stream if you don´t like his language. Do we really need a third party to come in and be a moral judge.

I say that tl should let people say what they want on their own streams or enforce the same rules on all, if that rule you can´t insult people they will have alot of banning to do.





Frankly, this type of logic is just childish. You're exaggerating and stretching analogies way too far. The world is not black and white. Some words are stronger than others. Some words are more hurtful than others. Some insults cross the line. Some don't. Society, or in this case, TL mods, decides and it is a common naive view of young people that they are somehow above and beyond societal norms.

Contrary to what is taught in school, words are very powerful. People whose occupations make them public personalities are held to a higher standard. What Destiny said in his stream is unacceptable for any public figure to say. He chose an occupation that puts him in the same league as reality TV stars, athletes, entertainers and other media types.



Well in 29 and work for the state with a lot of contact with the public. I agree with you, but what adults also know is that anyh punishments must be fair and based on the same standards. And you cant punish some and let other pass on a whim.
And your believes about words are not a fact. Destiny seldom use the language he uses on his stream outside of it. Trying to prevent people to use words "society" dosn't like is a trait strong in some countries. The strange things these countries usually don't ahve less racism, crime or anything else.


How can you say punishments AREN'T on the same standards? Destiny isn't anywhere near the actual community figure IdrA or iNcontrol is.

This isn't the courts, this is TL. The standard is "what makes sense under the circumstances". There's no paid lawyer digging through precedents and making a case where a judge has to be impartial. There's just "what makes sense".
lyonfront
Profile Joined May 2012
13 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 15:05:07
May 03 2012 15:04 GMT
#137
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining. Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I said troll memes and posts IN THAT THREAD not in all threads. Although if i dig up his history i am sure there is bs in there but that's not what we are discussing.

You think they are not being fair, i along with others think it is so what now? I never said you can't complain if you think TL is being unfair, go right ahead and provide your reasons. I am just providing my reasons on why i think it's fair.
lyonfront
Profile Joined May 2012
13 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 15:15:16
May 03 2012 15:13 GMT
#138
On May 04 2012 00:02 ahtf wrote:

Well in 29 and work for the state with a lot of contact with the public. I agree with you, but what adults also know is that anyh punishments must be fair and based on the same standards. And you cant punish some and let other pass on a whim.
And your believes about words are not a fact. Destiny seldom use the language he uses on his stream outside of it. Trying to prevent people to use words "society" dosn't like is a trait strong in some countries. The strange things these countries usually don't ahve less racism, crime or anything else.


I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand.

Destiny uses racial terms on his stream and defends it as his right and says words should not be censored, etc. He doesn't use them in public because he knows it's bad for business as society will castrate him. He is not standing up for his cause in public but only does it on his stream. What he and you need to understand that his stream is not his personal little stream anymore. TL manages it for him and he makes money off of it. If he doesn't follow their rules then he can expect to be taken off their page. He can continue to stream and yelling "HUE HUE HUE HUE n-word, etc". Simple business decision from both sides.

If i let you stay at my place and you start taking a dump everywhere in my house then i have the right to kick you out. I don't have a problem with you taking a dump but if you do it while in my house, you are gone. You can go on the street and freely shit yourself like it's going out of style.
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
May 03 2012 15:18 GMT
#139
On May 04 2012 00:02 ahtf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:57 andrewlt wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:44 ahtf wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:27 JingleHell wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:21 ahtf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 03 2012 22:47 lyonfront wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 15:19 DharmaTurtle wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:57 lyonfront wrote:
On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:
Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.


Bullshit. It's not a impartial resource. TL chooses who gets featured, list their stream or not. They will let you feature it as long as you abide by the site rules. You keep bringing up IdrA, how about i bring up Orb's stream which was banned by TL using racial slurs? Why do you ignore that?


On May 03 2012 09:42 DharmaTurtle wrote:

Please take the time to read what I wrote - it's one of my shorter posts, and you address none of my points. Idra's stream was left featured during his ban not because of his posting history, but because the featured list was an impartial resource for people looking for streams to watch.

You have 8 posts, and all of them in this thread. Lurk my reddit history and TL history, and notice that I didn't say a single word in that catalyzing TL 150 page thread. Nor did I comment in the reddit thread. Not one single word. Don't lie.

Read my reply to koreasilver, your comment makes the same points his does.


You post in every Destiny thread at Reddit and that's why your name stands out. Also aren't you mod in his chat? You have 272 posts and majority of them are related to Destiny ?? It almost seems like it's his smurf.

Anyway, i created an account because this thread was being linked in Reddit and Destiny's chat to basically have people come here and post for Destiny. I thought it was bullshit that his fans were trying to peer pressure the mods.

Also bottom line, it won't get through Destiny's head that he is not above everyone else until his stream is banned. Banning his account here won't do shit because he will just ignore. He needs to be taught a lesson and this will. Anyway, it's pointless arguing with you, hope the mods stick to their guns.

My post history in reverse order: Teamliquid API, Scarlett Fanclub, How to set volume controls as macros on Razer BW, JediGamer/Syndicate turning a new leaf, TL Hacker Database, Season 3!, Tasteless' voice, Megumixbear Fanclub, (q)Are keypads legal in tournaments or ladder?, Gimix Fan Club, An Apology to a Fan, No replays released from Anaheim, SpazCraft - Returning, MLG Anaheim 2011 Relay Race, EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism, [GSTL] Continuing Efforts, Puma leaves TSL for EG, and oh hey! [Stream] Destiny. On July 20, 2011. You got me - I'm his smurf. It's been 11 months since I've talked about him. I just waltz into every Destiny thread, don't I.

Yes, I am a mod. How is that relevant, beyond ad hominem?

I've already threatened to ban the chat morons who come in here to post garbage this morning before my first post. I've already (temp)banned people for going into Dragon's chat during his showmatch with Destiny and posting inflammatory comments. Point me to the people who are trying to peer pressure the mods and I'll mow them down. But for the past ~4 pages it's been the same ~15 people yakking, so I have no idea what you mean by peer pressure...

And again, you talk about how Destiny "needs to be taught a lesson". So for insulting someone's feelings over the Internet, TL is going to deprive him of a significant portion of his sole source of income? When they specifically didn't do so (and gave broad, sweeping reasons) when another famous streamer was banned? =\

@haileris: Damn straight. But given Destiny's ego...
Not even sure if he can log in to talk to TLadmin if he is banned. Oh well, I'm sure they have their methods.


Orb got banned for using racial slurs (before the shitstorm), IdrA dint. Why do you keeping picking IdrA's situation to compare to Destiny and not Orb? Why dint you voice your concern about mod's consistency then?

What part of this site being a private organization that does what's best for them do you not understand? Yes, banning his stream is the only way to teach him a lesson because that's the only thing that will make him pay attention to the issue. If you just banned his account for a year, he would not care because he doesn't use his TL account other than to advertise his stream.

He is not merely insulting people over internet, he is acting like he is above everyone else. He posted memes and troll comments in that thread. It has also been happening for long time. TL mods would have banned his stream even if he was making zero income from it. It's not their concern to worry about Destiny's finances. You act like a dick then they will take away what's precious to you.

It's Destiny's that has to learn his lesson and not act like a moron if he wants his stream unbanned which generates his income.


Also i brought up the fact you are mod, post mostly about Destiny is to make sure everyone knows you are very biased. Nothing wrong with that, just making sure people know.



Because we probably didn't care about orb enough to discuss it. Everyone has their bar to reach before they find it worth discussing something on the internet. And orb didn't reach mine, and probably several other of destinys fans who has the same reason.


You say he dosn´t use his tl account, and follow that up with that destiny has posted trolls and memes etc for a long time. Does he use his account or not? Or do you mean he does it outside of TL. If TL has decided to take a moral stand on all streamers and ban etc for what they say outside of tl or on their streams the admins will have alot of work to do.

Your third point: Yes tl is a privat organization who can do what ever they want within the law, does that somehow remove the right from us users/customers to critize and try to get a complete answer from them. If a company whatever it is don't deliver a product im satisfied with I will complain, for example ending of mass effect 3. Why should I hold TL to a different standard then any other privat organization(bioware)?

Before someone post "then leave" etc, this issue dosn't reach my bar for boycotting a organization as little as the mass effect 3 ending will have me boycotting bioware.


TL state in their rules that the moderating won't be fair but that they will try to hold it fair. I don't believe they tried to be fair this time which is why im complaining.
Sure punish destiny if you are against what he is dooing but you need to uphold some kind of similar treatment between people.

PS: and yes this the same could have been said about the orb situation DS


I agree wholeheartedly, treat Destiny like any other foul-mouthed, non-contributer who only uses TL to promote his stream.

Perm, de-feature, and close threads about him.


Sure lets do it. I don't have a huge problem with it. It will be a problem with the judging. Idra quite often has called people no lifes, idiots etc. Is that offensive enough, or is insulting one person ok?
Incontrol who is against foul language on his stream has the picture "im incontrol bitch", bitch is degrading comment against women, should he be defeatured until he removes it?
Alot of players use the word rape, which probably some rape victims have a problem with, should these players be banned?.
Heck some players and commentators use "oh my god" in a way some people will feel is insulting.

Stop trying to censors other peoples language, just don't listen to them. People have a choice to go watch streams, don´t watch destinys stream if you don´t like his language. Do we really need a third party to come in and be a moral judge.

I say that tl should let people say what they want on their own streams or enforce the same rules on all, if that rule you can´t insult people they will have alot of banning to do.





Frankly, this type of logic is just childish. You're exaggerating and stretching analogies way too far. The world is not black and white. Some words are stronger than others. Some words are more hurtful than others. Some insults cross the line. Some don't. Society, or in this case, TL mods, decides and it is a common naive view of young people that they are somehow above and beyond societal norms.

Contrary to what is taught in school, words are very powerful. People whose occupations make them public personalities are held to a higher standard. What Destiny said in his stream is unacceptable for any public figure to say. He chose an occupation that puts him in the same league as reality TV stars, athletes, entertainers and other media types.



Well in 29 and work for the state with a lot of contact with the public. I agree with you, but what adults also know is that anyh punishments must be fair and based on the same standards. And you cant punish some and let other pass on a whim.
And your believes about words are not a fact. Destiny seldom use the language he uses on his stream outside of it. Trying to prevent people to use words "society" dosn't like is a trait strong in some countries. The strange things these countries usually don't ahve less racism, crime or anything else.



You're 29? Really? I pegged you at around 16-18.

The mods discussed what to do among themselves. They exchanged different viewpoints to reach their decision. All you're doing is inserting your own judgment call on what is fair or not in exchange for theirs. What is fair to you is your whim. Your criteria for same standards are also your own.

And funny that you bring up countries and cultures. I thought Europe was ahead of the US in the current legal trend to judge things on a case by case basis instead of using one size fits all rule of law.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 16:28:04
May 03 2012 16:25 GMT
#140
About the defeaturing his stream thing:

Being a featured stream on TL isn't a right. It's a privilege shown to people that TL wants to support or highlight. If you're going to throw around claims like "you're taking away the income of a father who relies on his stream to make money [paraphrased]" you should at least see it from the other point of view. If it is important to Destiny to be featured on TL, maybe he should behave better towards those that are effectively providing him with his income. (This is a terrible analogy, but): If I'm a freelance artist and someone commissions my work for a large sum of money and I'm committing tons of time towards it, I'm sure as hell gonna respect them and try my best to do a good job so that I can keep making solid income. TL owes Destiny nothing - they're a private site, their stream list is subject to whatever regulations they see fit. Being featured is not entirely objective, and it never will be. There's no statistic you have to pass to get featured, no laws you have to follow - it is at the sole discretion of the people in power (who generally do a good, fair job).

And yeah, because someone might mention it, this benefits me. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I'm more popular than Destiny or that it benefits TL more to have me featured over him. However, I have contributed a decent amount to TL over the years, I have made friends with countless longtime community members, veterans, and have generally been a good member of teamliquid. Is this the sole reason they feature me? Obviously not, I have some merit, but again, I'm not gonna pretend that having me featured is high on TL's priorities. All I'm trying to really say is that TL has no duty to anyone as a private entity, and their logic and justice is generally very carefully considered and quite sound.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
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