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niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-15 16:58:20
June 15 2010 16:51 GMT
#1
This thread got me thinking about this 'issue' more.

I see why it'a good thing to have something like a post count on a forum, as it gives the user visible feedback that his efforts are building something up and it's a cute way (especially combined with the icons) of motivating users.

The down side is the obvious truth that post count is a very 'unpure' indicator of the quality of the poster. The only correlation is that if the poster has a few thousand posts, chances are he's not 12 years old and that he's still not banned after having posted as many posts. That's it.

I have a radical proposal which is meant to shake the ideas in your head, and make you wonder how TL would work if this was in place.

I'm thinking of placing a thumbs up/thumbs down button system for each post, like this:
[image loading]

Next, I propose restarting all user icons to basic ones (except admins, and people who earned special icons).

Next, we start all over again, but instead of counting posts, we count the thumbs up and subtract the thumbs down (or some other formula).

In this simple way, shitty posters will remain SCVs even with 10K posts. On the other hand, good posters will get cooler and cooler icons, and besides being encouraged to continue with good posting, this system will also naturally promote these posters as good role models for others, unlike now.

Some examples how it'll affect the daily life on TL:
- If someone makes a good guide, a replay pack, a translation, a fish recipe or whatever, they'll probably get a bunch of thumbs ups and will eventually get a better icon. People will be encouraged to contribute. Of course, readers are the ones who do the voting, so only quality material will earn recognition.

- it would be easier for admins to notice a bad post if there are 50 people thumbing it down. A simple thumb down counter would weed out a huge percentage of shitty posters.

- of course, admins' opinion is what matters ultimately, so they'd be able to give multiple thumb down penalties. So now, instead of getting temp-banned for 2 days, you may get -20 thumbs to go along with it.
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
June 15 2010 17:30 GMT
#2
Incontrol: lol (+56)

poster#4758: i thought avatar was a good movie (-78)

It is too influenced by popularity and FOTM opinions.
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
June 15 2010 17:59 GMT
#3
But incontrol is mostly a good poster, so karma has many thumbs ups waiting for him.

Give me an example of a bad poster who will get good icons?

The only ones who get easy votes will be those who have earned it somehow in the past.
H
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
New Zealand6138 Posts
June 15 2010 18:53 GMT
#4
That's not a good thing, though. Each post should be judged on its individual merit, not by how popular the person is. Shit, it basically works like that currently, you just don't have a visual notification. Look at what happens when Rekrul makes a shit post and when CharlieMurphy makes a shit post.
[iHs]HCO | のヮの | pachi & plexa ownz | RIP _
l10f *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3241 Posts
June 15 2010 19:56 GMT
#5
On June 16 2010 01:51 niteReloaded wrote:
In this simple way, shitty posters will remain SCVs even with 10K posts.


ils?

Just kidding.

@OP: But how will you deal with those people that will always thumb up/down posts without reading? (They always exist, sadly)
Writer
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24645 Posts
June 15 2010 20:17 GMT
#6
If the blogs rating system wasn't mostly abused then I think a thumbs up/down system might have a chance of being fair/successful.

But we've consistently seen that this isn't the case. This suggestion of yours op has been discussed and rejected already in other threads. Some kind of similar modification might be in order and I get where you are coming from.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9756 Posts
June 15 2010 21:52 GMT
#7
its kind of troublesome too since people who've contributed in the past, yet dont carry a star, would be just as respected as the sc2 newbies until they do some more stuff?

what?
boomer hands
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
June 15 2010 22:28 GMT
#8
On June 16 2010 03:53 H wrote:
That's not a good thing, though. Each post should be judged on its individual merit, not by how popular the person is. Shit, it basically works like that currently, you just don't have a visual notification. Look at what happens when Rekrul makes a shit post and when CharlieMurphy makes a shit post.

Rekrul and CharlieMurphy are hardly similar.
I have respect for Rekrul for what he's shared and for his attitute - he says what he means and even tho all this is on the internet, you get the feeling you know him a little.

I don't have the same respect for CM.. I couldn't even if I wanted to, I never really got the idea what he's about and he has 20K+ posts. I don't like him, I don't dislike him, all I know is he's around(tho I guess many people are like that, me included, but CM is just a bit more extreme representative).
That says something about his posting.

So, in my system, I think Rekrul would easily rank up, while CM wouldn't. just my opinion tho.


On June 16 2010 04:56 l10f wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2010 01:51 niteReloaded wrote:
In this simple way, shitty posters will remain SCVs even with 10K posts.


ils?

Just kidding.

@OP: But how will you deal with those people that will always thumb up/down posts without reading? (They always exist, sadly)

Those people wouldn't affect the foundations of the system, because their behavior will affect some people one day, other people the other. They may affect the absolute level of thumbs up, but the relative level will stay the same, which means a modified formula can be easily made.

I'm guessing that's what you have in mind Micronesia, when you mention the abuse of blog system. There could be a system that flags people who spam thumbs down on everything and then take that privilege from them or send them to disney.com.

majesty.k)seRapH, you have a point too, so this obviously isn't ready to be implemented in this form even if people agreed. But these things can be worked around.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24645 Posts
June 15 2010 22:46 GMT
#9
On June 16 2010 07:28 niteReloaded wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2010 03:53 H wrote:
That's not a good thing, though. Each post should be judged on its individual merit, not by how popular the person is. Shit, it basically works like that currently, you just don't have a visual notification. Look at what happens when Rekrul makes a shit post and when CharlieMurphy makes a shit post.

Rekrul and CharlieMurphy are hardly similar.
I have respect for Rekrul for what he's shared and for his attitute - he says what he means and even tho all this is on the internet, you get the feeling you know him a little.

I don't have the same respect for CM.. I couldn't even if I wanted to, I never really got the idea what he's about and he has 20K+ posts. I don't like him, I don't dislike him, all I know is he's around(tho I guess many people are like that, me included, but CM is just a bit more extreme representative).
That says something about his posting.

So, in my system, I think Rekrul would easily rank up, while CM wouldn't. just my opinion tho.

This isn't really refuting H's point. Sure, you have less respect for CM as a poster I suppose (or just haven't made a decision yet overall). If you are like many tl users, you are going to thumbs down CM for bad posts and thumbs up rekrul for the same post. You might even thumbs down CM for a good post. Basically the thumbs up and thumbs down decision turns into "do I like this person or not" rather than "was this a good post or not."


Show nested quote +
On June 16 2010 04:56 l10f wrote:
On June 16 2010 01:51 niteReloaded wrote:
In this simple way, shitty posters will remain SCVs even with 10K posts.


ils?

Just kidding.

@OP: But how will you deal with those people that will always thumb up/down posts without reading? (They always exist, sadly)

Those people wouldn't affect the foundations of the system, because their behavior will affect some people one day, other people the other. They may affect the absolute level of thumbs up, but the relative level will stay the same, which means a modified formula can be easily made.

I'm guessing that's what you have in mind Micronesia, when you mention the abuse of blog system. There could be a system that flags people who spam thumbs down on everything and then take that privilege from them or send them to disney.com.

majesty.k)seRapH, you have a point too, so this obviously isn't ready to be implemented in this form even if people agreed. But these things can be worked around.

That's a much more difficult system to set up than you probably realize... and this isn't as simple as "abusers will just vote everyone down but the effects will cancel."
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
June 15 2010 23:51 GMT
#10
what if you piss me off personally and i go on a personal vendetta to thumbs-down every post you ever made?
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24645 Posts
June 15 2010 23:55 GMT
#11
On June 16 2010 08:51 redtooth wrote:
what if you piss me off personally and i go on a personal vendetta to thumbs-down every post you ever made?

This in and of itself wouldn't be that difficult to detect with some coding, but this is also a somewhat extreme example. That's happened to my blog on numerous occasions lol
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
June 16 2010 08:05 GMT
#12
On June 16 2010 07:46 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2010 07:28 niteReloaded wrote:
On June 16 2010 03:53 H wrote:
That's not a good thing, though. Each post should be judged on its individual merit, not by how popular the person is. Shit, it basically works like that currently, you just don't have a visual notification. Look at what happens when Rekrul makes a shit post and when CharlieMurphy makes a shit post.

Rekrul and CharlieMurphy are hardly similar.
I have respect for Rekrul for what he's shared and for his attitute - he says what he means and even tho all this is on the internet, you get the feeling you know him a little.

I don't have the same respect for CM.. I couldn't even if I wanted to, I never really got the idea what he's about and he has 20K+ posts. I don't like him, I don't dislike him, all I know is he's around(tho I guess many people are like that, me included, but CM is just a bit more extreme representative).
That says something about his posting.

So, in my system, I think Rekrul would easily rank up, while CM wouldn't. just my opinion tho.

This isn't really refuting H's point. Sure, you have less respect for CM as a poster I suppose (or just haven't made a decision yet overall). If you are like many tl users, you are going to thumbs down CM for bad posts and thumbs up rekrul for the same post. You might even thumbs down CM for a good post. Basically the thumbs up and thumbs down decision turns into "do I like this person or not" rather than "was this a good post or not."

Show nested quote +

On June 16 2010 04:56 l10f wrote:
On June 16 2010 01:51 niteReloaded wrote:
In this simple way, shitty posters will remain SCVs even with 10K posts.


ils?

Just kidding.

@OP: But how will you deal with those people that will always thumb up/down posts without reading? (They always exist, sadly)

Those people wouldn't affect the foundations of the system, because their behavior will affect some people one day, other people the other. They may affect the absolute level of thumbs up, but the relative level will stay the same, which means a modified formula can be easily made.

I'm guessing that's what you have in mind Micronesia, when you mention the abuse of blog system. There could be a system that flags people who spam thumbs down on everything and then take that privilege from them or send them to disney.com.

majesty.k)seRapH, you have a point too, so this obviously isn't ready to be implemented in this form even if people agreed. But these things can be worked around.

That's a much more difficult system to set up than you probably realize... and this isn't as simple as "abusers will just vote everyone down but the effects will cancel."

Yeah, I get your points, this system obviosly wouldn't be perfect in this state.

I just hope people can see the good sides, and maybe this partly inspires someone to come up with a superior system.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-16 12:25:22
June 16 2010 12:24 GMT
#13
On June 16 2010 08:55 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2010 08:51 redtooth wrote:
what if you piss me off personally and i go on a personal vendetta to thumbs-down every post you ever made?

This in and of itself wouldn't be that difficult to detect with some coding, but this is also a somewhat extreme example. That's happened to my blog on numerous occasions lol

ever visit tom's hardware flaming comments are more +20 then well thought-out and through comments.

Only way to avoid 1 liners getting +10000 is to make it OP only.
jkillashark
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States5262 Posts
June 17 2010 20:00 GMT
#14
The way I saw it, sure you can look down on the post whores, but raise your own post quality. That's in part why I started the results and standings. I wanted attention yes, but attention for raising my post quality.
Do your best, God will do the rest.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
June 19 2010 21:45 GMT
#15
I have a countersuggestion:

Why not include a thumbs up/down system only for "veterans"/mods etc. first and then if someone gets a number of "thumbs up - down = X" he gets the right to rate other posts too?

Or at the very least an ignore button pls! for posters like these for example:

+ Show Spoiler +
I like how zerg players feel that they should automatically have a free expansion. They have no clue that they could easily play one-base and expand later, like every other race. Its like if they can't have 2-base they think its imbalanced. Too bad protoss production buildlings can't act as an extra nexus that we can put at our natural and just saturate with probes while building an army.

Not saying that its an imbalanced matchup, but seriously, you can't call a map bad just because the other races can put pressure early on a fast expansion. If you want an expansion, you should have to defend it. Its not fuckin free.


I just never want to read a post from such guys again. he didnt even understand the thread. I even doubt he read through it.

I dont know... maybe it is my problem but It annoys me because I really really like discussions.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Saturnize
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States2473 Posts
June 20 2010 05:22 GMT
#16
Please no thumb up thumb down system. TL is fine as it is.
"Time to put the mustard on the hotdog. -_-"
Divinek
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada4045 Posts
June 20 2010 09:11 GMT
#17
it's far far too easy to just go through the posting history of someone you really hate and give all their posts thumbs down. Could take a while but if the hate is strong enough it's too easy to abuse in too many ways
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Oh goodness me, FOX tv where do you get your sight? Can't you keep track, the puck is black. That's why the ice is white.
Kentor *
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5784 Posts
June 20 2010 10:20 GMT
#18
No web 2.0 stuff, thanks.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
June 20 2010 12:37 GMT
#19
On June 20 2010 18:11 Divinek wrote:
it's far far too easy to just go through the posting history of someone you really hate and give all their posts thumbs down. Could take a while but if the hate is strong enough it's too easy to abuse in too many ways


not if only the mods and veterans can do it. with my countersuggestion you would only be able to rate posts if you allready have a good reputation
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24645 Posts
June 20 2010 15:02 GMT
#20
On June 20 2010 21:37 clickrush wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2010 18:11 Divinek wrote:
it's far far too easy to just go through the posting history of someone you really hate and give all their posts thumbs down. Could take a while but if the hate is strong enough it's too easy to abuse in too many ways


not if only the mods and veterans can do it. with my countersuggestion you would only be able to rate posts if you allready have a good reputation

I think a good percentage of ratings abuse of my blog was by staff and veterans lol
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
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