You are simultaneously complaining about no item choices while also making up a scenario where Liandry on LB would not be trolling (it would still be trolling) not to mention downplaying morello on the same page you complained about healing.
You cannot stack Madness on minions and monsters , poking tanks as lb is extreme risk low reward.
The items in this game do feel stale and I’m glad an item overhaul is planned for pre season but I’m completely lost as to what your argument is anymore
I'm talking about a scenario where picking Liandries over Morello's would be preferable because you can't find the 1 shot combo because of the enemy composition. I'm complaining about Liandries being clearly the best item to build - which it has been for a while now apparantly - and building Morello is actually trolling because it doesn't optimize your damage output.
Shooting a chain and sigil is like one of the most low risk things you can do in the game and you can basically do it on low cd and you have an ult to copy your damage once more. I've picked this champion because she's normally played as the one combo mage, even though you can technically play her as a semi-control mage with her chains.
I haven't heard about the item overhaul so I can't comment on it. My argument is the following: stats shouldn't matter, the uniques (like the Liandries' Torment, like the Sun Fire cape burn, like Abyssal mask passive, ...) which are on the items (and moreso the actives, like evil mentioned), should be the deciding factor for buying an item in a specific scenario because that one optimizes damage over the other, lesser choice. Instead we have every comp largely building the same stuff because those always do the most damage.
But perhaps this was obvious all along and I've dragged you guys in my rabbit hole for no reason, and if so, sorry for that
As a % if max health if a tank is standing near his team you will generally take more damage than you deal by going for a poke on the tank. Extreme is perhaps the wrong word because I meant it in the sense that chances are high that you get chunked out for the potential reward of negligible damage. Which is as bad as death in objective defense which is the only reason to be even in the situation you describe. Also Liandries is not better for assassination specifically because the passive cannot be pre charged.
And yes sitting on orb and making a different item is superior to morello for ttk, but even in that argument dcap or void are superior with regards to enhancing your ttk . That being said I agree with Mark in this video that in the current game state morello passive is worth considering as “burst damage “ and almost always results in enhancing your combo.
Well, guess I'm to apologize for my ignorance. I guess it's fully up to the players to recognize how they should build. I'm not going to go back on my point that it's trolling for a LB to build Liandries though. I'll admit it's more optimal in most situations for her to build Morello's, but if you've tried all game to blow up the backline and have been denied from doing so, it might be better to switch tactics instead of waiting for the one miracle play that might win you the game (while you're losing your team the game at the same time by not softening up the frontline). I'm still convinced LB's poke is very safe. Something like a Lissandra would be much more difficult, since most of her skills are fairly short range. Optimally you'd have an actual control mage using the Liandries in these situations, but I'm talking a specific one where you've picked an assassin and it's not working out.
Also, most fights happen during objective defense, no? Inhibs, dragons and barons or random aram moments in the middle of the map are where the games are won, held or lost. It rarely happens that games are won through 1 or 2 picks in the middle of the map.
Edit: actaually, the more I think about it, the more I think Morello vs. Liandries discussions are a good thing, since it's perhaps one of the only nuanced decision you can make in the game, and therefor it's this hotly debated. People have been so devoid of nuance in the game that when it does show up, people go batshit.
Most of the audience doesn't care for the math anyway, I remember Void Staff > Deathcap as 3rd or even 2nd item depending on the champion in the early-ish seasons being a new thing/never showing up in game. Even something basic like LW > BC for Pantheon if you're fed, because your best way to apply BC is also the skill you'd want to wait until the full debuff to use (his original E had a 3.6 bonus AD ratio over 6 ticks), was something pretty simple and yet never applied because people would rather complete their Brutalizer item than diversify their build path.
Because of the way mr scaling works on melees a lot of the time void is the highest pure damage item vs any Melee regardless of items after like level 11. But you are correct that it’s pretty uncommon knowledge.
In regards to objective defense my purpose for pointing that out was simply getting chunked while sidelining or seiging is doesn’t really lose you that much in comparison. But target selection is also a lot easier in these situations because you’re dictating.
Edit: rechecking the math it’s level 15 assuming you spent the gold difference on ap
The only thing void isn't good at is farming. That's the primary reason people don't rush it even if it's the best DPS item, and grab it as 3/4/5 big item.
Other thing is accessibility of CDR. DPS is more valuable in some cases than outright burst damage.
Utility items admittedly have gotten a lot stronger in the seasons since that math as well. Often times pure damage isn't the best option.
Other thing is accessibility of CDR. DPS is more valuable in some cases than outright burst damage.
I think the bigger reason is CDR gives access to greater utility from your kit. Means champs like LeBlanc can jump 2 seconds earlier with Ludens instead of Void, and her ult has lower CD too.
At the time you had less CDR, or it was on items like Morello's which didn't have Grievous Wounds, but something like 20% CDR but little AP. Zhonya's gave less AP too, Liandries' didn't exist, etc. The go-to was usually RoA first, and in that context (fully stacked for 80 AP) Void was more damage most of the time, but on some champions the AP difference with Deathcap prevented them from one-shotting the wave.
(I played Morgana so my issue with farming wasn't my AP but my opponent's, since my puddle wouldn't kill a moving creep wave if my opponent could nuke mine.)
I've played against 6 Yone Junglers in my last 10 games played... And all 10 of those games I have played Jungle. So 60% of the soloqueue junglers I've come across are playing it all the sudden.
I'm not sure why, its completely awful. Poor ganks. Poor objective control. No dueling power. Relatively low farm speed.
Its nice, maybe the luck I need to climb a little... 8 wins in my last 10 feels pretty good.
In generally I think the items are alright. People just are too conservative in ranked and afraid of diverting from the norm.
I think the primary reason early Void has gone out of favor is all the extra damage baked runes and items which we didn't have back then. Ludens+Electrocute is 130-280+35%AP additional damage, which I assume is (almost) equal to what Void would offer at 2nd when you factor in the 2650 gold you could spend on other item(s) with more utility, unless of course you're against an AD laner that buys Hexdrinker.
But I honestly think a vast majority of the Rift players are literally trash at building items and too stuck in habits, I cant count the games where I have been screaming internally over my team refusing to all buy Tabis against a pure AD comp. In ARAM you see people fit their build and skill orders in every single game to fit the situation, Liandries on Corki in games he wont auto a lot for instance or people leaving their runes open to go full tank on champions that "can" function as a frontline if the enemy comp requires you to have one. I almost never see this adaptability in ranked. Even in chall streams, Voy is literally the only streamer I've seen that are ready to buy random components he's most likely going to sell later if it's to be as strong as possible for a very important upcoming teamfight.
On August 15 2020 18:27 iCanada wrote: I've played against 6 Yone Junglers in my last 10 games played... And all 10 of those games I have played Jungle. So 60% of the soloqueue junglers I've come across are playing it all the sudden.
I'm not sure why, its completely awful. Poor ganks. Poor objective control. No dueling power. Relatively low farm speed.
Its nice, maybe the luck I need to climb a little... 8 wins in my last 10 feels pretty good.
The only Yone jungler I've seen popped the fuck off. But I think it was a smurf, Yonesomethingsomething name and a high winratio with only Yone games. He had to get the Shen omega leash on red tho.
.......
Should be in the "awesome" thread but I'm too lazy to find it right now.... Second penta of the season and within the same month! First time on Lillia and the second time on Aurelion Sol. :DDDD
Mid is so fucking easy right now, just play something that can perma shove and roam bot or invade with your jungler 24/7. lol
god yone's engage range is so oppressive its actually depressing. i dunno why riot thought it would be fun to have a kunkka in lol, but at least in dota you can stop kunkka from going back to his x. there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop yone from going back besides cc-ing him within 5 seconds and killing him within that cc. fucking stupid
Yeah, I watched Faker play him yesterday, he destroyed entire games. Once he got his first item, he could either use his full combo to blow people up, or use his E and ult to travel gigantic distances to get to low HP players. I don' think even Xerath is safe from him. He can harass you at tower because of his tether and shield, and safely dive people once they are low enough.
His CC also has very short channel times, even Challenger players don't always react fast enough to flash away from it.
yeah they need to nerf either his engage range, the unstoppable e, or change his animations for q knockup and ult. imo his q knockup is the hardest to dodge; yone has to miss rather than you dodging it. it lacks the animation yasuo has when he throws the tornado, its more like yasuos e except it throws a tornado forward at you. thats fked
The thing with his engage range is that its kind of the combination of Q(950 range), E (300 range) and R (1000 range). Kind of hard to nerf it without totally just gutting his kit. But I'd agree... He's got longer engage range than Zac's 1800, and it comes with a snap back on an AD assassin.
But I'd agree it's a little more than much. He can go from red buff to the other side of the river. Played 1 game where we lost a 4v5 with him gone, only for him to E into the pit basically from base, finish off three low health members, and steal the Baron.
It's kind of oppressive, tbh.
I'm also not a fan of the 1500 unit/s cast speed on his R and Q. Needlessly fast. Part of me takes issue with him being 50% magic damage / being able to ignore armor with his E by design as well, but I suppose it's better than Yasuo's free percentage pen... So maybe I should just be happy it is what it is.
On August 17 2020 15:54 DarkCore wrote: Yeah, I watched Faker play him yesterday, he destroyed entire games. Once he got his first item, he could either use his full combo to blow people up, or use his E and ult to travel gigantic distances to get to low HP players. I don' think even Xerath is safe from him. He can harass you at tower because of his tether and shield, and safely dive people once they are low enough.
His CC also has very short channel times, even Challenger players don't always react fast enough to flash away from it.
I'm loving Lillia's 5% pickrate. Seems like a lot of players just pick her first rotation, seems like a lot of them are non-jungle mains too.
Literally Jax counter her so hard its not even funny. Just have to max Q and farm a little slower, but like... She can't come into Q range without dying. According to U.gg I've played the matchup 23 times, won the matchup every game, and won 21 of the games. Jax literally becomes a strongside jungler that wins 2v2s against her while scaling better, its actually disgusting. According to u.gg my stats in the matchup are nasty; like 88% dragons, 80% rift heralds, 85% first blood, +2803 gold differential @ 15 minutes.
It is honestly the most one sided matchup I've played since old Pantheon vs Teemo except from the jungle. You just wander around and kill stuff, and then at 15 minutes you're Jax with Bloodrazor + Trinity Force + Steraks and you 1v5 till the nexus explodes.
It probably legit almost looks like I paid some high level jax 1 trick to boost me. lol.
Also, legit Hecarim and Urgot are terrors right now. So strong, almost no counter play.