EPT[Patch 10.16] Yone Release General Discussion - Page 2
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Is smurfing / boosting really that common, or am I just experiencing a relatively normal streak of matchmaking? Like average farm per minute has dropped like 1.5 cs/m and the difference in controlled aggression is through the roof. Champs with big advantages and kill threat not pulling the trigger, champs without kill threat pullling the trigger and inting all over the place. Average objective take is like 2 minutes later. Games feel free. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
For example, I present to you, Yasuo without any lifesteal items through Anivia's Morello's, MF's Mortal Reminder and Zac's Thornmail; https://streamable.com/ci8lye | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
I'm also guessing he's fed, or that MF and Anivia aren't. But then again, he has ALOT of healing right after his ult. I guess the armor shred helped that much. Also, the MF did not play that optimally at all. They really need to cut back the free healing indeed. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
IIRC Yas was on Wits end, IE, PD, Mortal Reminder and a BF sword. The problem I have isn't Yasuo winning the fight with the way Anivia and MF kind of just sit in Melee range, but more like... jesus that healing wtf. And thats through Grevious Wounds... So it shouldn't be 4k, it should be like 6.7K. I just think that much healing shouldn't be in the game without any investment. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
That being said, all the free healing in the masteries is just dumb. Previously with runes, they were an investment, you sacrificed 2AD or like 5AP to get a fraction of what they give now. You can see it super clearly in ARAM, where after a fight something like Riven can go from 1k to 2k healed from conqueror. Not even including the bonus AD, that amount of healing in bonus health is worth something like 2.5k. Add in deaths dance and ravenous hunter and so on, and a ton of champions can quite literally become better drain tanks than vlad/swain/fiddle while only really investing in damage items. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
He has 2 attack speed items, 1 healing item (which probably does negigible healing though) and 100% crit with IE. If he runs Conqueror and Legends Bloodline (and also Ravenous Hunter) his healing will literally be insane every Q, since it's a skill and an aa, which procs all of the above. Yasuo is kind of like Vayne in many ways, if he gets to this level he can just solo carry everything. I don't think any other champ can inherently heal as much as that though. It is a nice way to highlight the problematic state Yasuo is in, not just currently, but basically since his release. I think Riven might be able to heal almost as considerably, but she'd need way more lethality and cd stuff, or perhaps needs at least one healing item (like Death's Dance). | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Basically any champion that builds conqueror on its own by end game is likely getting a third of that Yasuo healing, too. Anything that goes conqueror has health sustain like old WotA stacking Vlad that was nerfed out of the game. Atleast Vlad had to build sustain items. You currently have assassin's going conqueror. You have ADCs going conqueror. You have mages going conqueror. It's absurd. And even if you don't have conqueror, chances are you have Ravenous Hunter or bloodlines. Game has more healing and sustain than it's ever had by a wide wide margin. You're right, perhaps Yasuo is one of the biggest abusers, but like... That's spirit visage Mundo level healing on a champion that's supposedly glass cannon. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
But that’s basically true with the normal build as well and you don’t get one shot the second your w is cd It is funny when ppl try to wall hump your passive and you 3 tap them anyway though | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
Playing vs Fiora and she just chunks you for over half your life pre 6 with barely any items. It mostly gets worse from there. Or she just constantly Q's your ass and you can't do anything because she gets movement speed and when you try to harass back she can stun you and all in. Playing vs Yasuo and him weaving around without you able to catch him while he's Q'ing you from a distance you'll never be able to punish. Playing vs Jax and mistiming something so he can completely counter you with his counterstrike and him then punishing you by threatening an all in when you go to cs. These are also late game 1v1 monsters, but somehow they also have this insane power spike early. I don't feel like it drops off all that much for all 3 though, maybe a small dip pre 6 - which is possibly more substantial for Jax and Yasuo, which seem more item dependent - but these 3 definitely give you very little room to mess up even if you try to harass with a single auto attack. Sometimes just seeing the champs locked in makes me play the game less optimally because I don't feel like I have any agency in the matchup ever. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Its a tilter though. Feels bad. yasuo is Imo quite strong, i think his winrate is brought down by the "lee Syndrome" quite a bit. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On August 13 2020 06:09 Uldridge wrote: The following are three insta tilts when playing toplane: Playing vs Fiora and she just chunks you for over half your life pre 6 with barely any items. It mostly gets worse from there. Or she just constantly Q's your ass and you can't do anything because she gets movement speed and when you try to harass back she can stun you and all in. Playing vs Yasuo and him weaving around without you able to catch him while he's Q'ing you from a distance you'll never be able to punish. Playing vs Jax and mistiming something so he can completely counter you with his counterstrike and him then punishing you by threatening an all in when you go to cs. These are also late game 1v1 monsters, but somehow they also have this insane power spike early. I don't feel like it drops off all that much for all 3 though, maybe a small dip pre 6 - which is possibly more substantial for Jax and Yasuo, which seem more item dependent - but these 3 definitely give you very little room to mess up even if you try to harass with a single auto attack. Sometimes just seeing the champs locked in makes me play the game less optimally because I don't feel like I have any agency in the matchup ever. luckily I play a ton of Rumble and Poppy and they both shit on Yasuo but I really feel your pain, Yasuo is such a tilting champion | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Things that need to be outright removed (not nerfed, straight up out of the game): - Conquerer healing - Death Dance - Ravenous Hunter All 3 give ludicrous amounts of heal for certain champions. I've started playing Ravenous Hunter on Taliyah in ARAM, and I'm healing over 10k every game with it, completely changes the champion's strengths and weaknesses. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
It would be like having lethal tempo and giving armor shred after a ramp up moment. In effect TPA doesn't even give anything, just a debuff to your opponent. Why not make it a stack on yourself which then proc's on every champ you hit during its effect time? Giving Death's Dance armor was so bad. But why not make it melee only? Why not make it scale with levels? Why not make it scale with items? Like, it could give armor and less damage the more offensive you build (even going in the negative), while the same thing could be done with armor stacking, but then with the offensive portion. Make people think about these items instead of them being a must buy because they're so OP. Optimally every item shoud be situational (looks at Liandries vs. Morello where one is CLEARLY stronger atm in almost every situation than the other - or Crit being a must buy stat on many adcs [I'm a big fan of on hit stuff]). This is almost never the case, or at the very least its not obvious enough. Item choices should be able to win you the game as much as mechanics imo, but this doesn't seem to be the case at all. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
Why not leave items out altogether if its so useless? | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
Let's take Leblanc, who's job is to assassinate a squishy. Standard optimal path should be Morello + sorc shoes. However, sometimes you won't be able to get to the backline because everyone is protecting the squishies. It might then make sense to opt into Liandries to chip more of the frontline and expose them to being all inned if they don't take action themselves. There should be this fuzzy zone where Liandries is roughly as good as Morello, but because of the uniques, one should outshine the other based on the situation at hand (state of the current game being played, comp, matchup dependence). How much extra magic pen is needed for Morello's to make the choice between Liandries and Morello a difficult one, because they roughly have the same damage output vs. standard opponent stats? Or take into account how people stack health or magic resist. Morello could be a great item initially, one to snowball a win on (like Brutalizer, but then full item instead), but kinda falls off because in the long run, Liandries would do way more for your team (like softening tanks with the burn). However, it should still clearly be weaker for blowing up squishies (which it isn't atm iirc). I'm actually wondering how damage checks are calculated, because depending on the state of the game it can change so, so much imo. | ||
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