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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
You cannot stack Madness on minions and monsters , poking tanks as lb is extreme risk low reward. The items in this game do feel stale and I’m glad an item overhaul is planned for pre season but I’m completely lost as to what your argument is anymore | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4949 Posts
I'm complaining about Liandries being clearly the best item to build - which it has been for a while now apparantly - and building Morello is actually trolling because it doesn't optimize your damage output. Shooting a chain and sigil is like one of the most low risk things you can do in the game and you can basically do it on low cd and you have an ult to copy your damage once more. I've picked this champion because she's normally played as the one combo mage, even though you can technically play her as a semi-control mage with her chains. I haven't heard about the item overhaul so I can't comment on it. My argument is the following: stats shouldn't matter, the uniques (like the Liandries' Torment, like the Sun Fire cape burn, like Abyssal mask passive, ...) which are on the items (and moreso the actives, like evil mentioned), should be the deciding factor for buying an item in a specific scenario because that one optimizes damage over the other, lesser choice. Instead we have every comp largely building the same stuff because those always do the most damage. But perhaps this was obvious all along and I've dragged you guys in my rabbit hole for no reason, and if so, sorry for that  | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
And yes sitting on orb and making a different item is superior to morello for ttk, but even in that argument dcap or void are superior with regards to enhancing your ttk . That being said I agree with Mark in this video that in the current game state morello passive is worth considering as “burst damage “ and almost always results in enhancing your combo. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4949 Posts
I guess it's fully up to the players to recognize how they should build. I'm not going to go back on my point that it's trolling for a LB to build Liandries though. I'll admit it's more optimal in most situations for her to build Morello's, but if you've tried all game to blow up the backline and have been denied from doing so, it might be better to switch tactics instead of waiting for the one miracle play that might win you the game (while you're losing your team the game at the same time by not softening up the frontline). I'm still convinced LB's poke is very safe. Something like a Lissandra would be much more difficult, since most of her skills are fairly short range. Optimally you'd have an actual control mage using the Liandries in these situations, but I'm talking a specific one where you've picked an assassin and it's not working out. Also, most fights happen during objective defense, no? Inhibs, dragons and barons or random aram moments in the middle of the map are where the games are won, held or lost. It rarely happens that games are won through 1 or 2 picks in the middle of the map. Edit: actaually, the more I think about it, the more I think Morello vs. Liandries discussions are a good thing, since it's perhaps one of the only nuanced decision you can make in the game, and therefor it's this hotly debated. People have been so devoid of nuance in the game that when it does show up, people go batshit. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Even something basic like LW > BC for Pantheon if you're fed, because your best way to apply BC is also the skill you'd want to wait until the full debuff to use (his original E had a 3.6 bonus AD ratio over 6 ticks), was something pretty simple and yet never applied because people would rather complete their Brutalizer item than diversify their build path. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
In regards to objective defense my purpose for pointing that out was simply getting chunked while sidelining or seiging is doesn’t really lose you that much in comparison. But target selection is also a lot easier in these situations because you’re dictating. Edit: rechecking the math it’s level 15 assuming you spent the gold difference on ap | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Other thing is accessibility of CDR. DPS is more valuable in some cases than outright burst damage. Utility items admittedly have gotten a lot stronger in the seasons since that math as well. Often times pure damage isn't the best option. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Other thing is accessibility of CDR. DPS is more valuable in some cases than outright burst damage. I think the bigger reason is CDR gives access to greater utility from your kit. Means champs like LeBlanc can jump 2 seconds earlier with Ludens instead of Void, and her ult has lower CD too. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
The go-to was usually RoA first, and in that context (fully stacked for 80 AP) Void was more damage most of the time, but on some champions the AP difference with Deathcap prevented them from one-shotting the wave. (I played Morgana so my issue with farming wasn't my AP but my opponent's, since my puddle wouldn't kill a moving creep wave if my opponent could nuke mine.) | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I'm not sure why, its completely awful. Poor ganks. Poor objective control. No dueling power. Relatively low farm speed. Its nice, maybe the luck I need to climb a little... 8 wins in my last 10 feels pretty good. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
I think the primary reason early Void has gone out of favor is all the extra damage baked runes and items which we didn't have back then. Ludens+Electrocute is 130-280+35%AP additional damage, which I assume is (almost) equal to what Void would offer at 2nd when you factor in the 2650 gold you could spend on other item(s) with more utility, unless of course you're against an AD laner that buys Hexdrinker. But I honestly think a vast majority of the Rift players are literally trash at building items and too stuck in habits, I cant count the games where I have been screaming internally over my team refusing to all buy Tabis against a pure AD comp. In ARAM you see people fit their build and skill orders in every single game to fit the situation, Liandries on Corki in games he wont auto a lot for instance or people leaving their runes open to go full tank on champions that "can" function as a frontline if the enemy comp requires you to have one. I almost never see this adaptability in ranked. Even in chall streams, Voy is literally the only streamer I've seen that are ready to buy random components he's most likely going to sell later if it's to be as strong as possible for a very important upcoming teamfight. On August 15 2020 18:27 iCanada wrote: I've played against 6 Yone Junglers in my last 10 games played... And all 10 of those games I have played Jungle. So 60% of the soloqueue junglers I've come across are playing it all the sudden. I'm not sure why, its completely awful. Poor ganks. Poor objective control. No dueling power. Relatively low farm speed. Its nice, maybe the luck I need to climb a little... 8 wins in my last 10 feels pretty good. The only Yone jungler I've seen popped the fuck off. But I think it was a smurf, Yonesomethingsomething name and a high winratio with only Yone games. He had to get the Shen omega leash on red tho. ....... Should be in the "awesome" thread but I'm too lazy to find it right now.... Second penta of the season and within the same month! First time on Lillia and the second time on Aurelion Sol. :DDDD Mid is so fucking easy right now, just play something that can perma shove and roam bot or invade with your jungler 24/7. lol | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8761 Posts
i dunno why riot thought it would be fun to have a kunkka in lol, but at least in dota you can stop kunkka from going back to his x. there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop yone from going back besides cc-ing him within 5 seconds and killing him within that cc. fucking stupid | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
His CC also has very short channel times, even Challenger players don't always react fast enough to flash away from it. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8761 Posts
imo his q knockup is the hardest to dodge; yone has to miss rather than you dodging it. it lacks the animation yasuo has when he throws the tornado, its more like yasuos e except it throws a tornado forward at you. thats fked | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
But I'd agree it's a little more than much. He can go from red buff to the other side of the river. Played 1 game where we lost a 4v5 with him gone, only for him to E into the pit basically from base, finish off three low health members, and steal the Baron. It's kind of oppressive, tbh. I'm also not a fan of the 1500 unit/s cast speed on his R and Q. Needlessly fast. Part of me takes issue with him being 50% magic damage / being able to ignore armor with his E by design as well, but I suppose it's better than Yasuo's free percentage pen... So maybe I should just be happy it is what it is. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On August 17 2020 15:54 DarkCore wrote: Yeah, I watched Faker play him yesterday, he destroyed entire games. Once he got his first item, he could either use his full combo to blow people up, or use his E and ult to travel gigantic distances to get to low HP players. I don' think even Xerath is safe from him. He can harass you at tower because of his tether and shield, and safely dive people once they are low enough. His CC also has very short channel times, even Challenger players don't always react fast enough to flash away from it. I've just been banning him pretty much every game | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Literally Jax counter her so hard its not even funny. Just have to max Q and farm a little slower, but like... She can't come into Q range without dying. According to U.gg I've played the matchup 23 times, won the matchup every game, and won 21 of the games. Jax literally becomes a strongside jungler that wins 2v2s against her while scaling better, its actually disgusting. According to u.gg my stats in the matchup are nasty; like 88% dragons, 80% rift heralds, 85% first blood, +2803 gold differential @ 15 minutes. It is honestly the most one sided matchup I've played since old Pantheon vs Teemo except from the jungle. You just wander around and kill stuff, and then at 15 minutes you're Jax with Bloodrazor + Trinity Force + Steraks and you 1v5 till the nexus explodes. It probably legit almost looks like I paid some high level jax 1 trick to boost me. lol. Also, legit Hecarim and Urgot are terrors right now. So strong, almost no counter play. | ||
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