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Here it is, the only race report so long that reading it will take more time than the race itself! Putting it in spoiler tags to avoid committing a formatting crime against humanity.
+ Show Spoiler +This race was a fun one. It nearly never happened.
Forest fires have engulfed huge stretches of BC this year. Among the many unfortunate consequences of these fires is the smoke they’ve pumped into the atmosphere. For reasons not quite clear to me, this smoke (along with small particulate matter from the fires and sundry other nasty hangers-on) has amazing transitive properties. It can travel amazing distances without dispersing, causing awful air quality wherever it arrives and lingers. I’ve seen news stories about smoke from the fires causing the air quality to plummet in Nova Scotia, which is more than 4,000 km east of the fires.
But the favorite destination of BC smoke is usually Alberta. This summer has been no exception. Edmonton was positively swathed in smoke for most of August, with hideous air quality and almost no sunshine. When my flight landed on the Friday before the race and I first breathed in a lungful of prickly, sticky, burning air, my first thought was: hoo boy, I can’t race in this.
A call to a friend who is a respirologist on Saturday strengthened my skepticism. She told me that running in bad air can do long-term damage to your lungs, and urged me not to race if the air quality was 6 or high on the air quality health index, a measure devised by the federal government. At that point I was almost certain I would not run. The AQHI on Saturday morning was 10+, the highest rating on the scale. It was forecast to improve overnight and be OK for Sunday, but I took a “I’ll believe it when I see it” attitude to the prediction. Lungs are useful things, you know? I’d personally prefer to use mine to their utmost for as long as possible.
Then on Saturday night, things cleared up with remarkable speed. By Sunday morning the AQHI was 4 and heading down. The race went forward. The fact that air quality immediately degraded again on Monday is proof positive, I believe, that Sunday’s clearance was a special dispensation from the gods of running.
This miraculous atmosphere extended to the race itself. For perhaps the first time in recorded history, everything went according to my race plan.
That plan, which I’d developed in consultation with my coach, was this: run somewhere around 3:35/k for the first 10k of the race and then make a game-time decision. If it’s hard, just dig in and hang on; 3:35/k nets you 1:15 and change in a half marathon, and that’s enough for my goal race this training cycle (Victoria marathon on October 7, where I hope to run 2:3X). If you’re feeling good, hit the gas a bit and have fun.
After the disaster of the BMO half in Vancouver in June (see earlier in this thread for my outrageous and pathetic whinging in its aftermath), and my very underwhelming run in the lead leg of the Sinister 7 ultra in July, I desperately wanted a race to go well. I wanted racing to be fun again. Most of all, I wanted to feel afterwards like I’d given a good, strong effort.
All of which made me more conscientious than usual when the starter’s pistol fired. Instead of getting carried away for a mile and a half, as is my custom, I cooled my jets and tried to lock in on goal pace. This was a bit tricky as the field was pretty crowded at the start. The field was in the neighbourhood of 2,000, I believe, which necessitated some jostling and dodging in the opening few miles. I made a note of a few runners who I thought I might see later at this stage.
By 5k I was cruising in the wake of a dude rocking some salmon pink shorts. I gave him the private nickname of Chinook in honor of this. I thought he was running just the right pace to take me to 10k in 36 minutes.
But this soon proved false. I realized, listening to Chinook’s breathing over a mile or so, that he was working much too hard to keep this pace up to the 10k mark. Not wanting to get caught up in what I saw as his inevitable fade--I don’t mean that he’d literally grab on to me, of course, but rather that I’d subconsciously slow a bit or just settle into a too-comfortable rhythm running next to him--I made a gentle push off the front to put some distance between us and stick to the plan.
This brought me within spitting distance of another runner who I thought might be a good pace buddy to the 10k mark. But the situation repeated itself again: we ran together for a bit, I decided I’d be better on my own, and made a small push off the front.
Now I was less than a mile from 10k. The watch said I’d been running 3:34/k and I was feeling good. The course got a bit twisty here, but on the straights I could see a running duo I recognized from the start of the race. It was composed of a man and a woman. I assumed the woman was one of the elite field and the man was pacing her to some kind of goal time. I went through 10k in a little under 36 minutes and decided to try and catch them. It took me about two miles to reel them in, which took us just to the point where the course straightened out again.
They must not have been a pacing team, because they actually split before my arrival. I passed the woman first and then the man. Both times when I made contact, my thoughts were the same: “Boy, it sounds like you’re working hard. I don’t think I’m hurting as bad as you. I bet I can push on a little more.”
The male I thought might pick up and race me to the finish, but to my mild dismay he rolled over almost as soon as I pulled even with him. Before long we exchanged words of encouragement and parted ways.
Now I was in no man’s land. I could see, on the straight stretches of road, my friend S a little ways ahead of a man in a neon singlet, who I’m going to call Neon Keon here. I thought I probably couldn’t catch S, but I decided to have a go at Neon Keon. I’d say he was about 300 metres up the road from me.
We were approaching the 15k mark here and I was starting to hurt. But with just 6k to go, that felt OK. I thought of some of my workouts in the last few months and told myself that I could hurt for that long.
I always feel a strong urge, in the early portions of a race, to deny that I’m working hard. I think this is an attempt at psychological self-preservation: if you admit to yourself, five percent into a race, that you’re barely hanging on, the realization of the amount of pain in front of you can be overwhelming and dispiriting.
Conversely, I find, towards the end of a race or a hard workout, it can be liberating to say to yourself: self, you’ve done some good work so far. You’re doing great, and there’s not far to go here. Pin your ears back, go hell for leather, and show the devil a clean pair of heels.
Which is more or less what I said to myself here. Abandoning by inches the conservatism that had brought me to that point in the race, I opened up the throttle and tried to run Neon Keon down.
Not long after I hit the gas, a voice in the crowd called out that “S is not that far ahead!” I craned around to see my coach standing there, giving me the thumbs up. I flashed a thumb at him and ran on.
One of the reasons I love running the Edmonton half is the crowds. It’s not Boston or Chicago or anything, but for a race of its size it gets some pretty large and rowdy groups of spectators. Plus, since I spent most of my life in Edmonton and know many runners there, the odd person in the crowd will recognize me and call out encouragement by name as I pass.
This happened a few more times as I chased Neon Keon. I stared at his neon top with a maniacal obsession and imagined a rubber band linking our waists, slowly cinching us together.
He must have known I was chasing him, because with about two miles to go he turned back and looked at me. When that I happened, I thought “I’ve got you now.”
We went through the biggest cheer group on the course right after that, with pounding music and bubble-blowing machines and people holding all manner of fun signs. I reached my hand out for a high-five and an acquaintance of mine, who I hadn’t seen in years and didn’t know would be at the race, popped out of the crowd and delivered and epic high-five. I put in a small surge and screamed around the final turn in the course. I was less than 10 metres back of Neon Keon at this point.
Right after this turn, there is a very modest uphill--a gentle grade that lasts no more than 100 metres. But, much like Heartbreak Hill in Boston, the location of this feature right at the end of the race can make it seem like a monstrous hill if you are hurting enough. Neon Keon must have been at the limits of his strength, because he slowed to a crawl when he hit it.
Passing people in a race is sometimes called “scalping”, as in “I can’t believe Bob scalped Galen Rupp in that 5k!” I’d never really thought about why the term is used until I passed Neon Keon. It felt personal and somehow gruesome and rude and primal. It was just the two of us on the course, neither able to speak, having a weirdly intimate moment. I felt like I was somehow ripping some part of him away as I passed.
I must have been flagging myself at this point, because my splits show I ran the 20th K in 3:39. My watch had been reading 3:32/k since I passed halfway. Now it jumped up to 3:33. I summoned the last of my strength and emptied the gas tank over the last mile.
My chip time was 1:14:05, about as good as I could hope for. I had a ton of fun, received a huge dose of positive vibes for my Victoria training, and remembered why I love running so much.
S still beat me by about 50 seconds, though. I’ll have to wait until next year to try again.
I can’t wait.
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Not too bad. Sounds like the execution was spot on, and nice use of psychology throughout the race. I agree with your thoughts on how hard you're working. Being concerned about that early can just result in you totally giving up. It's also amazing if you feel you're going well how much more willing you are to hurt and go after it, whereas if you feel a little off I find it far easier to just kinda roll over and mail it in to the finish.
That's what, 2' off your best? Getting back there man, looks like you'll have a real good chance of something 2:35-2:38 by the time October rolls around.
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On August 29 2018 05:28 L_Master wrote:
That's what, 2' off your best? Getting back there man, looks like you'll have a real good chance of something 2:35-2:38 by the time October rolls around.
Haha, thanks! Something in that ballpark is the plan for Victoria. It does have some rolling hills and can be windy, so who knows.
My Edmonton time is slightly over two minutes off my PB, which is 1:12:01. I'm a stickler for those seconds because I dream of one day joining the 1:11 club. It feels less and less like a crazy fantasy these days. "Maybe next year?" he said, in a voice full of hope.
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On August 29 2018 05:59 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2018 05:28 L_Master wrote:
That's what, 2' off your best? Getting back there man, looks like you'll have a real good chance of something 2:35-2:38 by the time October rolls around. Haha, thanks! Something in that ballpark is the plan for Victoria. It does have some rolling hills and can be windy, so who knows. My Edmonton time is slightly over two minutes off my PB, which is 1:12:01. I'm a stickler for those seconds because I dream of one day joining the 1:11 club. It feels less and less like a crazy fantasy these days. "Maybe next year?" he said, in a voice full of hope.
I don't see any reason you couldn't run 1:10-1:11 and threaten 2:29:xx and it looks like you're on track to get back to PR territory over the course of the next year. You were training hard for your 1:12 and your 2:30 low, but from what I remember you were still chipping away consistently from cycle to cycle. No reason you can't get back there and continue to chip away.
Running faster than perhaps 1:10/2:28 is where I think it would get tougher. That would probably take some form of significant shift in your training or at a minimum several very good, uninterrupted cycles given that you were training quite seriously and focused to run your PRs.
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On August 29 2018 07:13 L_Master wrote:
I don't see any reason you couldn't run 1:10-1:11 and threaten 2:29:xx and it looks like you're on track to get back to PR territory over the course of the next year. You were training hard for your 1:12 and your 2:30 low, but from what I remember you were still chipping away consistently from cycle to cycle. No reason you can't get back there and continue to chip away.
Running faster than perhaps 1:10/2:28 is where I think it would get tougher. That would probably take some form of significant shift in your training or at a minimum several very good, uninterrupted cycles given that you were training quite seriously and focused to run your PRs.
Considering your knowledge level about running and training, it means a lot to me to hear you say that. Breaking 2:30 has been my long-term running goal for years now. Sometimes it seems like a foolish dream. Sometimes, merely daft.
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I would like to publicly thank L_Master for the coaching and advice over the past 6 weeks. The weather around here has been brutal, we have had no extended signs of Fall yet, but I can feel my fitness is definitely improved regardless of some rough workouts throughout the training cycle. I feel good, lost 4 pounds, eating well, and no matter what happens in my race on Saturday it’s overall been a very positive experience mixing these workouts back into my routine for the first time in 2 years. It has been strange not training for a marathon this year but I have enjoyed spending the time focusing on the shorter stuff again. This is the first time I’m racing a 5k that I actually specifically prepared for which is exciting.
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So I have this issue. I've started cycling ~3 times a week, for 1-1.5h per session or if I didn't cycle, I ran. I used to run a lot and I used to have quite good endurance. My endurance is fine, but after the second week of training my knees started getting some kind of stiffness. Like, not traditional soreness, but difficulty bending. Now, after almost 2 months, I can run and bike, but my knees are stiffer than ever. Like squatting is almost impossible. It does kind of go away when I stretch areas around me knee the day itself, but always returns the next day. Running isn't painful per se. The pain is in the lifting of the leg and bending the knee or when putting a lot of pressure on the knee when cycling (like when on high resistance or something) I'm about to go to a physiotherapist I think, because it doesn't seem to resolve. Hope it can go away soon so I can keep improving my form. Kind of think it's my knee ligaments not being able to cope with my sudden spike in activity. Also (finally), I started doing leg stretches where I hold my foot with my hands to elongate my hamstrings so I become more nimble; I used to have to do this because of injury long time ago and I like the feeling, but somehow feel like this is related..
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On September 21 2018 00:36 Uldridge wrote: So I have this issue. I've started cycling ~3 times a week, for 1-1.5h per session or if I didn't cycle, I ran. I used to run a lot and I used to have quite good endurance. My endurance is fine, but after the second week of training my knees started getting some kind of stiffness. Like, not traditional soreness, but difficulty bending. Now, after almost 2 months, I can run and bike, but my knees are stiffer than ever. Like squatting is almost impossible. It does kind of go away when I stretch areas around me knee the day itself, but always returns the next day. Running isn't painful per se. The pain is in the lifting of the leg and bending the knee or when putting a lot of pressure on the knee when cycling (like when on high resistance or something) I'm about to go to a physiotherapist I think, because it doesn't seem to resolve. Hope it can go away soon so I can keep improving my form. Kind of think it's my knee ligaments not being able to cope with my sudden spike in activity. Also (finally), I started doing leg stretches where I hold my foot with my hands to elongate my hamstrings so I become more nimble; I used to have to do this because of injury long time ago and I like the feeling, but somehow feel like this is related..
Definitely not an expert in injuries. The most common places to check initially would be did you do too much, too soon; especially with a bad bike fit. Check your cadence as well. Knee injuries are much more common in people with slow cadences in the 60s/70s/80s. Running a cadence of 90-100+ is much better for knee health (and other factors as well).
I would take 3-4 weeks off, see if it improves. If it does, then it's definitely related to those activities. Check bike fit and then gradually re-introduce cycling. If it doesn't, go see the physio. Could still be related to those, but a more significant injury. Before you see the physio do some online research and try to have an idea of what might be wrong so you can go in informed.
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On September 20 2018 11:41 LuckyFool wrote: I would like to publicly thank L_Master for the coaching and advice over the past 6 weeks. The weather around here has been brutal, we have had no extended signs of Fall yet, but I can feel my fitness is definitely improved regardless of some rough workouts throughout the training cycle. I feel good, lost 4 pounds, eating well, and no matter what happens in my race on Saturday it’s overall been a very positive experience mixing these workouts back into my routine for the first time in 2 years. It has been strange not training for a marathon this year but I have enjoyed spending the time focusing on the shorter stuff again. This is the first time I’m racing a 5k that I actually specifically prepared for which is exciting.
Fingers crossed. Would have loved to see a forecast 20 degrees cooler. Right now looks like they are forecasting 73 degrees and dew-point of 67...which I believe pretty muggy (around 75% humidity). At least not the 80+ with 90% humidity stuff.....
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5k done - 20:36, low 70’s with around 90% humidity at the start, overall not too disappointed. I feel like I did about as best I could with the hand I was dealt. according to strava it was my 3rd fastest 5k all time (started using strava in 2013) so that’s not bad. Seems like sub 20 will have to wait until this stupid humidity gets out of town for the fall...it’ll be interesting to see what I can do when it’s dry and low 50’s for temps...
up next a half next weekend but not planning on going hard in that will treat it more like just an easy/long run, and then spend October working towards running decent in the Richmond half in November
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On September 22 2018 22:47 LuckyFool wrote: 5k done - 20:36, low 70’s with around 90% humidity at the start, overall not too disappointed. I feel like I did about as best I could with the hand I was dealt. according to strava it was my 3rd fastest 5k all time (started using strava in 2013) so that’s not bad. Seems like sub 20 will have to wait until this stupid humidity gets out of town for the fall...it’ll be interesting to see what I can do when it’s dry and low 50’s for temps...
up next a half next weekend but not planning on going hard in that will treat it more like just an easy/long run, and then spend October working towards running decent in the Richmond half in November
Not the sub 20 your were hoping for, but you definitely didn't have the conditions you were hoping for. 70s and humid is definitely well below optimum for fast racing. Just take a look at diamond league 5ks during the day with those temps, often races above 13:10. Those guys are easily racing 20-30+ seconds over their ability, and that's for almost half the duration. I guarantee you that warm + humid combo cost you a minimum for 40-45s, and in your case possibly as much a 1:00.
Let's put it this way, the humidity almost certainly cost you a little more than the turbo speed course helped you.
Very nice splits btw. Borderline negative splits.Given that the first two miles went at an average of -120 ft/mile and the last mile was uphill by 20ft to only slow from 6:25 to 6:55 is very good.
Out of curiosity, my guess is that in the last km you kinda realized you weren't going to make it sub 20 and threw in the towel just a smidge there. If you're HR monitor is to be believe you had a slight lessening on the HR towards the end, and I don't really see much resembling a kick for the line (strava doesn't always show this though, and it may have been more uphill too). If I'm off base, correct me, but I like trying to read the race from the data and splits.
All in all that's a strong race. Great work! The good times to show for it are coming as the weather cools off!
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Yeah exactly. When I started slipping at 4k I knew it was going to be near impossible to close with an under 4:00 final k especially with it almost all uphill, if I pushed like crazy mayyyybe I would have been able to finish in the 20:15-20:20 range but I basically made the decision at 4k not to pour on 110% coming in. I think maybe if I yolo’d a tad more on the downhills early on and had a little cushion for the final k I would have had more of an incentive to push there. I’m tempted to give this race another go next year, the course is very fun haha
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Hey everyone! Quick update on me: I had to pull out of Victoria because of a foot injury incurred two weeks before the race. No fall marathon for me. I suspect some plyometrics my physio had me doing were to blame, but that is neither here nor there.
I'm still rehabbing my foot and planning my next move, and riding my bike a bit in the meantime.
On that note, I have a question for L_Master (or any other experienced cyclist): is the right effort for an easy ride the same as the effort for an easy run? I have no idea how to modulate my effort on these rides where I'm trying to cross-train/not go crazy.
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LuckyFool totally didn't post it, but he ran a PR half a week ago impromptu. Was planning to just pace it but took off with a few to go and PRed by a small amount. It's on strava so it happened
Hey everyone! Quick update on me: I had to pull out of Victoria because of a foot injury incurred two weeks before the race. No fall marathon for me. I suspect some plyometrics my physio had me doing were to blame, but that is neither here nor there.
I'm still rehabbing my foot and planning my next move, and riding my bike a bit in the meantime.
On that note, I have a question for L_Master (or any other experienced cyclist): is the right effort for an easy ride the same as the effort for an easy run? I have no idea how to modulate my effort on these rides where I'm trying to cross-train/not go crazy.
Pretty sure I read it's a different injury than the nasty one? If it was the same one I'd be saying it would be time to seriously consider the bike.
Sucks though, hope it heals decently quick
On that note, I have a question for L_Master (or any other experienced cyclist): is the right effort for an easy ride the same as the effort for an easy run? I have no idea how to modulate my effort on these rides where I'm trying to cross-train/not go crazy.
If you have orders, or reason, not to go hard, then yes I'd say the best way to do so is similar breathing effort. Depending on where you are at, it might feel a little easier breathing wise and a little harder in the legs with the pushing effort, but not dramatically. If all you do is ride easy though, you can expect to lose significant fitness...but I'm sure you're already aware of that.
If you have clearance to go hard, there is a ton of great stuff you could do to hang onto the vast majority of your aerobic fitness.
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LMaster wise...dealing with a sinus infection that won't feck off. I'd say whatever and ignore it, but when I try that it gets worse, and unfortunately it's main symptom is fatigue. Not debilitating, but enough to make walking to classes (1.5 mile walk) a moderate chore, and riding a bike fairly unpleasant.
I'm going to rest very hard the next 3-4 days, perhaps break out the bulb syringe/mucinex type stuff, and see where that goes. If that doesn't work, next step would be doctor and see about antibiotics.
Annoying, but not end of the world, because the real fun starts late Nov/early December. Major plans then. Putting a lot of effort right now into getting my work ethic, discipline, organization, and general school skills to a healthy place. With that in place, I should be able to handle actually training for the first time in a couple years, and it's a big part of my overall plan: + Show Spoiler +Basically looking to make 50k+ a year, ideally 75k+ working 30 hours a week by 35. I absolutely love endurance athletics and coaching, so that is a part of that plan. Credibility is a part of that, and I still somewhat lack the credentials I'd like to have as both a rider and a runner. Not to mention I have unfinished business with these sports.
Minimum, I want my Cat2 in cycling so I can go to nationals for CSU in spring 2020. Then, if the body can still do it, I want to run sub 4:30, 16:30, and sub 1:15. A marathon would be nice to have on the resume, but it takes a long time to build up to a successful one of those.
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Thanks for the quick response, man. Sorry hear your immune system is letting you down. That's quite the long-term scheme there! I'd say you've got the long-term disposition for it.
I'm starting to feel pessimistic about my foot. Don't know if it's a stress fracture or not (though I'm looking into getting a CT scan) but it feels longer-term than I was lead to believe. It's been a month of rest and rehab and cross training at this point, and it still felt weird/numb/painful during a 5k test this evening. Definitely not healed. Not noticeably better for all my rehabbing, really.
All of which is to say: could you tell me a bit more about what I can do to maintain my fitness on the bike? For reference, I ride a Jake the Snake cyclocross with commuter-style tires. I'm looking to ride for roughly an hour a day with a two hour ride on the weekend.
What can I do in those parameters?
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The bike you have, fortunately, doesn't effect the ability to work out.
I'm also not sure what commuter style tires mean. I assume this means wider, I don't know if it means tread or not. Unless you specifically commute on gravel or snow, then changing tyres would greatly benefit the character of your ride. The bike would be somewhere from marginally to significantly faster, likely handle better, and resist flats better. It's not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination, but if any of the above things matter to you, it's worth the consideration. #1 recommendation far and away would be either 25mm or 28mm Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres. Fantastic tyre. Great life, great flat resistance, and given that its meant to be a robust training tire it rolls well and grips well.
Given those time parameters (FYI: ideal in my mind would be 1.5-2 hour rides on 3 weekdays, the other two with 30'-60' recovery rides, and then a good 2-4 hour ride on the weekend.) the focus would definitely be on intensity as that's in that "time crunched" 5-9 hours a week window.
In your case, short term fitness maintenance would be the main goal I imagine. The big difference between the bike and running is basically the amount and intensity of training you can tolerate. You wont have power/heart rate, so in your case you'll have to go by feel, but you're exceptionally experienced so that isn't a major concern. Simple idea of what you could do:
Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding.
Basically, time efficiency with focused intervals. Without power it's hard to focus precisely on going harder, so building duration is a good approach. You'll get way faster on the bike, and keep the vast majority of your running fitness if you do the above. I wasn't at your level, but I ran 18:21 on about 50mpw, got injured, didn't run or exercise much for a year, then got on the bike and trained cycling for 2 years. Got the itch to run. Did a couple of 20 mile weeks with 3 total workouts (3x1k, 2M sprint straight/jog turn, 4x1k) and ran 17:56.
Now, your training is really focused and good, and mine wasn't, not to mention your bike volume is reduced compared to your running volume and the opposite was true for me, so it's not like you'll come back and be ready to run 2:31, but you should be able to jump back in close to where you were metabolically.
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Damn. I need to learn how to write less wordy. I just like giving full background for everything and explanations I think...
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On October 16 2018 14:12 L_Master wrote:The bike you have, fortunately, doesn't effect the ability to work out. I'm also not sure what commuter style tires mean. I assume this means wider, I don't know if it means tread or not. Unless you specifically commute on gravel or snow, then changing tyres would greatly benefit the character of your ride. The bike would be somewhere from marginally to significantly faster, likely handle better, and resist flats better. It's not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination, but if any of the above things matter to you, it's worth the consideration. #1 recommendation far and away would be either 25mm or 28mm Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres. Fantastic tyre. Great life, great flat resistance, and given that its meant to be a robust training tire it rolls well and grips well. Given those time parameters (FYI: ideal in my mind would be 1.5-2 hour rides on 3 weekdays, the other two with 30'-60' recovery rides, and then a good 2-4 hour ride on the weekend.) the focus would definitely be on intensity as that's in that "time crunched" 5-9 hours a week window. In your case, short term fitness maintenance would be the main goal I imagine. The big difference between the bike and running is basically the amount and intensity of training you can tolerate. You wont have power/heart rate, so in your case you'll have to go by feel, but you're exceptionally experienced so that isn't a major concern. Simple idea of what you could do: Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding. Basically, time efficiency with focused intervals. Without power it's hard to focus precisely on going harder, so building duration is a good approach. You'll get way faster on the bike, and keep the vast majority of your running fitness if you do the above. I wasn't at your level, but I ran 18:21 on about 50mpw, got injured, didn't run or exercise much for a year, then got on the bike and trained cycling for 2 years. Got the itch to run. Did a couple of 20 mile weeks with 3 total workouts (3x1k, 2M sprint straight/jog turn, 4x1k) and ran 17:56. Now, your training is really focused and good, and mine wasn't, not to mention your bike volume is reduced compared to your running volume and the opposite was true for me, so it's not like you'll come back and be ready to run 2:31, but you should be able to jump back in close to where you were metabolically.
Haha, wow, thanks for the detailed response. I will give this a go and see what happens; maybe I'll learn to love biking. (No promises I'll ride seven hours combined over Saturday and Sunday, though....) 5x3' coming up this afternoon!
Not sure on the exact brand/make of the tires, but they have a little bit of tread on them. Not like MB tires or anything but a few grooves for grip and whatnot. They are a bit fatter than skinny road bike tires. If I decide to invest in a dedicated road bike I'll look into those tires you mention (and probably ask you for a bunch more info....)
I can already see that picking routes for these workouts will be a bit of a skill to learn. I assume avoiding traffic lights/having to stop is the name of the game here. How much concern should I give to elevation change over my workout routes? My instinct is that going downhill in particular is not helpful since it's tough to keep your heart rate up while doing that. But are there any special concerns about going uphill with these workouts?
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On October 17 2018 01:08 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2018 14:12 L_Master wrote:The bike you have, fortunately, doesn't effect the ability to work out. I'm also not sure what commuter style tires mean. I assume this means wider, I don't know if it means tread or not. Unless you specifically commute on gravel or snow, then changing tyres would greatly benefit the character of your ride. The bike would be somewhere from marginally to significantly faster, likely handle better, and resist flats better. It's not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination, but if any of the above things matter to you, it's worth the consideration. #1 recommendation far and away would be either 25mm or 28mm Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres. Fantastic tyre. Great life, great flat resistance, and given that its meant to be a robust training tire it rolls well and grips well. Given those time parameters (FYI: ideal in my mind would be 1.5-2 hour rides on 3 weekdays, the other two with 30'-60' recovery rides, and then a good 2-4 hour ride on the weekend.) the focus would definitely be on intensity as that's in that "time crunched" 5-9 hours a week window. In your case, short term fitness maintenance would be the main goal I imagine. The big difference between the bike and running is basically the amount and intensity of training you can tolerate. You wont have power/heart rate, so in your case you'll have to go by feel, but you're exceptionally experienced so that isn't a major concern. Simple idea of what you could do: Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding. Basically, time efficiency with focused intervals. Without power it's hard to focus precisely on going harder, so building duration is a good approach. You'll get way faster on the bike, and keep the vast majority of your running fitness if you do the above. I wasn't at your level, but I ran 18:21 on about 50mpw, got injured, didn't run or exercise much for a year, then got on the bike and trained cycling for 2 years. Got the itch to run. Did a couple of 20 mile weeks with 3 total workouts (3x1k, 2M sprint straight/jog turn, 4x1k) and ran 17:56. Now, your training is really focused and good, and mine wasn't, not to mention your bike volume is reduced compared to your running volume and the opposite was true for me, so it's not like you'll come back and be ready to run 2:31, but you should be able to jump back in close to where you were metabolically. Haha, wow, thanks for the detailed response. I will give this a go and see what happens; maybe I'll learn to love biking. (No promises I'll ride seven hours combined over Saturday and Sunday, though....) 5x3' coming up this afternoon! Not sure on the exact brand/make of the tires, but they have a little bit of tread on them. Not like MB tires or anything but a few grooves for grip and whatnot. They are a bit fatter than skinny road bike tires. If I decide to invest in a dedicated road bike I'll look into those tires you mention (and probably ask you for a bunch more info....) I can already see that picking routes for these workouts will be a bit of a skill to learn. I assume avoiding traffic lights/having to stop is the name of the game here. How much concern should I give to elevation change over my workout routes? My instinct is that going downhill in particular is not helpful since it's tough to keep your heart rate up while doing that. But are there any special concerns about going uphill with these workouts?
You've got a cross bike, so I don't know how its geared. Most normal road bikes are geared such that you can do at least 33-35mpg (approx 60 km/hr) pedalling fairly comfortably, and close to 70 km/hr if you really spin. As long as you're not going down very steep downhills, or downhills with corners that require slowing and not pedaling you should be fine. If the downhill isn't crazy long, you should just be able to spin your legs like mad and keep some power down/HR up.
No major concerns about going uphill, no. Power is power whether flat, down, or up. Plus climbing is amazing and descending is the bomb so hills are pretty much tha bestest.
If you want a constant workbout, avoid those. It would be like planning a 3' VO2 interval, but having a 10s break in the middle. You could probably compensate, but it would definitely disrupt the workout. Any time you want consistent pedaling for an interval you definitely want to avoid stoplights. Those are completely disruptive. Also, as a general rule in my experience, roads with stoplights aren't generally the safest or best roads to ride when they can be avoided.
The key to really getting it right in my opinion is to feel your effort. Most people instinctively try to keep the gear turning at the same rate when they hit an uphill, which means they start laying down a ton of power. Most people are also too slow to shift into bigger gears going downhill, or subconsciously want to take it easy. Shift gears very quickly, and pay attention to the force on the pedals. Going over the top of a hill can easy be 3, 4, or 5 shifts in quick succession, often with 1-2s of each other, to keep the power down.
MTA: Dang. Your area is kind of a bummer. All the good stuff requires a decent bit of riding to get to. If you were trying to train like a pro it would be perfect, but for what you want you'd need to drive. Your best option that I imagine would be a great weekend ride with intervals, would be to ride from where you usually start your stuff out north to Burnaby mountain, do your reps on Burnaby, and then ride back.
If you do want to drive, that's probably money as far as a great spot to do intervals. But I realize driving 10-15 miles on a regular basis, especially across town, will likely be ridiculously onerous. If you're looking to have some nice weekend rides where you can drive and want a nice 2 or 3 hour ride I can give you some good suggestions though.
Given where you are you'll just have to figure out what's good using local knowledge, maybe find a nice loop with all right handers that you can use for hard days.
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