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I've had a very strange experience today and I am not sure what to make of it.
I've been called weird and creepy by someone.
It's possible it's true, but my brain won't let me see it.
Most things are not black and white but the facts for this are.
Everything is included in the messages I exchanged with this person which I will post below.
I will take a break from TL, allow anyone here who reads this to post their comment and I will read them in a month or so when I am calm enough to take it.
Maybe I am creepy just here and then I should really distance myself until I understand what is exactly that is the creepy factor.
To: iNcontroL [ Profile | Report ]
Subject: Re: weird for me
Date: 7/7/18 16:37
First of all I promise this is the last message you will get from me on TL.
I've never been called creepy nor weird but I have a feeling I don't want to socialize in any way
with people who think that about me.
I am trying very hard to see your point and I am failing to do that.
All I know about weird and creepy people is that they don't realize they are weird and creepy.
Maybe I am imagining things. Maybe I saw the show and saw things that were there just in my head.
Like the 10 k pitch from Take or the Thank you screen where you have your patreon donors and the highest was 100 S. And I felt left out without a reason considering I did donate the money.
Maybe you did not want to aggravate my behavior.
My brain disagrees with you but maybe I need to take a break from the Pylon show.
All I wanted was to do what I could to make things better. I failed for now.
I am truly sorry about that.
We'll see.
Please don't reply. this was the best apology I have in me.
Original Message From iNcontroL:
Hey,
Nobody pitched your idea to blizzard. Your idea was to run a tourney.. you didn't invent that concept nor do you own it but frankly that doesn't matter. As I said, nobody took your idea and pitched it to blizzard.
We don't have a "thank you" page for donations to the pylon show.
I'm going to ask you one last time.. then I am just going to ignore you like I should have from the beginning. You are really generous but you are also super super creepy and really really weird. I am done talking to you and I'd like it if you stopped messaging me.
Hide nested quote -
Original Message From baiesradu:
Hello man,
You have to forgive me for writing again to you ,
but I feel like you're pulling some Inception mind fuck on me or you're teaching me not to trust people
on the internet in the most cruel fashion.
I just saw The pylon show ep. 12 and this is what I understand :
you took my idea that I sent to you a month ago,built on it and you put it into the world.
You pitched it together with your contacts, improved it , and put it into the Pylon show.
And that's awesome let's see what happens.
The part that is fucking with my brain is that you didn't even mention me in the donors list of the episode.
I gave you 500 USD, from Borg_r, dedicated in the donation to be used for the pylon show, on top of the idea ,the idea that you just pitched loud and clear and I am not even in the donations page mentioned.
You said on stream that that was the biggest donation your channel has ever received, you acknowledged it is for the pylon show and you might use it to upgrade you PC but I am not there on the page.
I didn't do this so that you could suck my dick in public but still you have to be able to comprehend how
I feel .
Please, clarify this for me.
Original Message From iNcontroL:
Very cool idea and very generous of you to think this wayZ unfortunately it’s a gigantic undertaking and not worth our time for the pay we’d be able to take. Running tourneys is a huge thing and we’re lucky to have folks that do it.
Thanks again though!
Original Message From baiesradu:
Hello ,
I have an idea that I think it's worth money but it might be that I don't know what I am talking about so I want to run it by you.
I want to invest my hard earned money into an event that's about selling your ideas to the people that organised Nation Wars to improve on their numbers and format .
I think I can put about 10 000 AUD for a prize pool for an event that you guys organise with the aim of the event to prove that generating the right SC2 content can make you, your money back .
I am thinking a PROLEAGUE test format where you guys (you and Artosis) get the community that you can reach, involved .
Have the casters, community members and pro players that you can reach create an event that can be used to demonstrate a PROLEAGUE Nation wars would make a sound investment.
The financial goal of the event by itself is to make the money back and pay for production costs.
No matter what happens we split the earning 50/50 .
If we make less than the prize pool we split 50/50 and I loose money and learn an important lesson in investing.
If it works we make the money back and if proleague Nation wars becomes a thing you give me whatever you guys think it's fair on top of the winnings from the event mentioned earlier.
What do you think ?
Is it stupid ? Are there versions of this idea that make sense to you ?
I hope this was not a waste of your time …
Have a good day ,
 
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Yeah, it's kind of weird and creepy.
You don't have a personal relationship with Geoff, so messaging him with an accusation of him stealing your idea without giving you credit is far out of line. Your pitch wasn't much of a realistic proposal and lacks a concept of the costs and logistics that go into organizing a Starcraft tournament. You're basically offering to put up 10000 AUD for prizemoney and leaving it up to Geoff and Artosis to somehow build a profitable global proleague around that. He's letting you off easy complementing your generosity rather than going into the naivete behind your proposal.
The way you construct your messages is also a bit weird, perhaps partially because English is not your first language. The apologetic and self-conscious way you write is off putting, it's hard to converse with someone that doesn't seem convinced of anything they say. Leave out all the apologies and self-consciousness thought, it has no place in a PM conversation.
You're not socializing with Geoff, you're making a business proposal. Same for the 500$ donation, that's business, not personal.
In the end Geoff is just (over)reacting to you overstepping your bounds. It's a response to the situation not an evaluation of you as a human being. Like you said, there's no such thing as creepy and weird, just an observers inability to understand what goes on in someone else's mind.
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if you donate money to get attention on the show, than maybe you should not donate.
/e: Use some formatting so its easier to read.
P.S: idk if its a good move to release private messages, they are intended to be PRIVATE after all.
P.P.S: If you would be following the show so closely you should remember what the Nation Wars guy said. They prepared the tournament like 9(?) months in advance or something like that. NINE MONTHS.
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Your post could indeed benefit from some formatting but to answer your question: I'd say it is a bit weird expecting more than Incontrol is giving you but creepy is too strong of a word.
Another thing:
If it works we make the money back and if proleague Nation wars becomes a thing you give me whatever you guys think it's fair on top of the winnings from the event mentioned earlier.
Don't just give people carte blanche like that and always make sure there's a contract when conducting business.
Take care
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That's not even an overreaction by Geoff. Weird is putting it mildly. You outright accused him of stealing your idea, due to what I can only assume is an inflated sense of narcissistic entitlement. Gtfo with that shit.
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First things first, you shouldn't make private messages public without asking consent from the other involved parties. So I hope you did that. Second imagine yourself in incontrol's shoes, someone messages you and says "ill give you 10k, here is not even a concept of what I want you to do with it", that would be weird, wouldn't it? I think incontrol's reaction to that was fine, as he tried to be nice and not make it sound that you are weird after your first message.
I think the point here is that, if you actually want to work with him you should at least prepare a good outline and concept of what you want to do, which would be more than just the few sentences you wrote. Of course, you are generous to be willing to chip in with such a huge amount of money for that, but it wasn't even clear what you wanted to do. As incontrol, I would have been confused as well, and honestly wouldn't want to work with someone who doesn't get his whole plan or point across in a message he could have planned out really well. It usually spells trouble to further engage with people like that, as they can't express themselves well enough to be fully understood by everyone which then leads to complications later on.
The second thing is, the pylon show only features a thank you for patreon monthly donors. If I got it right, you donated once on incontrol's stream and said it was for the pylon show (? kinda unclear on that), which he appreciates, but of course this won't be featured on the episode. Maybe he could have mentioned it on the show, but I don't think the reason in donating is getting your name read aloud by incontrol, while artosis goes "That's crazy!". So that just comes down to you misunderstanding that only patreon donors are listed in the episodes but not one time donors. This point then enhances the first point, because basically you didn't express your idea and then you confused the "thank you to patreons" with "thank you to all donors", so naturally nobody would want to work with you (I'm sorry im just saying how I feel about this).
And as I see it, incontrol didn't even understand your first message beyond that fact that Nationwars was a tournament and you want to do Nationwars. So naturally he could not have stolen your idea and did whatever you said with it.
I wouldn't have described it as creepy, but more as weird and that only boils down to your misunderstanding and lackluster articulation of your idea mixed with the fact that to incontrol you're pretty much a total stranger.
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Just the very fact that you decided it was a good idea to share this publicly and wanted other peoples opinion on it seems incredibly strange to me, not creepy, just strange or weird.
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Second "donator" "read my private message" in a few months or i'm i wrong and there have been more?
mmm yes geoff could be nicer, that's not news?
mmm no, you are completely wrong in assuming "making a tournament" is "your" concept?
he never responded to my messages do i have to assume i'm weird and if i sent more i would be creepy?
inbefore in control not 
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First of all, the word 'weird' is way overused on TL.
Classic projecting, people label others what they're afraid they are themselves.
Second, I'll just state that of all public SC people, incontrol strikes me as one of the more awkward, insecure ones. Everything someone says is colored with the way they are.
On to the meat of the matter, I understand that you can feel like your idea was stolen. Frankly, maybe your idea even affected their final idea in coming to fruition, but your idea didn't have enough substance to it to be considered as a 'project idea'. Like somebody said, the idea is very broad. It may have helped them, but it's not like you offered the blueprint for everything and they stole it.
Still, I understand the potential to feel bad. I don't follow the pylon show, so I don't know what they announced, how similar it is to your outlined idea.
Onto the next point, the donation page, I believe you didn't donate to get praised, but seeing that you got hurt by your idea potentially being stolen, it was having salt put on your wound by not even seeing your donation among others, even when yours was more substantial. It was definitely their mistake not to list your donation if they listed other, smaller ones.
My advice for you, be more confident of what you are saying. I know it's simple to say, but it's more like advice for you long term, develop your confidence and belief in what you're saying. It is not a good state of being to be in constant doubt of yourself, and this is hard for people to deal with, because you are serving them words and opinions, but at the same time stating pretty strongly that you have high doubts that what you're saying is based in reality. So people are likely to be like "what am I supposed to do with what you're saying".
I think I understand you, I used to be more like you.
General advice: let people off the hook more, if you inspired their idea, be happy you affected the community positively.
If you think your idea was key, that should suggest that you could come up with more good ones.
And develop your confidence.
Good luck in everything, and 'blessings' to both you and incontrol.
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On July 08 2018 06:33 Integra wrote:
Just the very fact that you decided it was a good idea to share this publicly and wanted other peoples opinion on it seems incredibly strange to me, not creepy, just strange or weird.
It is strange in the sense that it's unusual, but on the other hand it's brave.
He's unsure about his opinion and wanting to hear views of others.
Yeah, it can also be strange to someone that somebody is doubting themselves so much, but he's being real.
Many people wonder the same, but wouldn't actually do it like this.
The strange/tricky/controversial part is sharing private conversations publicly, OP should have asked incontrols permision.
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On July 08 2018 21:15 niteReloaded wrote:The strange/tricky/controversial part is sharing private conversations publicly, OP should have asked incontrols permision.
No he shouldn't have, since Geoff clearly stated "please don't message me again". What about that is hard to understand? He's a public figure but that doesn't mean he owes you his time, or owes you anything for that matter. Strangers getting touchy feely with celebrities because they've deluded themselves into thinking they "know" the celebrity is a big problem in general. It's why nutjobs break into their houses because they think a lyric they wrote was written specifically about them. It's insanity. I'm not saying OP is a nutjob, but he might be headed on that path if someone doesn't tell him straight.
Let's also not exclude the possibility that OP's post is not even genuine but a camouflaged attempt at drawing attention to the alleged theft of his idea. He seems to have a big victim complex ("boohoo he called me weird when I accused him of theft") and clearly wants to paint Geoff as the bad guy. Posting private PM conversations without permission only adds to the weirdness.
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On July 08 2018 23:13 Jae Zedong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2018 21:15 niteReloaded wrote:The strange/tricky/controversial part is sharing private conversations publicly, OP should have asked incontrols permision. No he shouldn't have, since Geoff clearly stated "please don't message me again".
Yup, you're right, I missed that.
He's a public figure but that doesn't mean he owes you his time, or owes you anything for that matter. Strangers getting touchy feely with celebrities because they've deluded themselves into thinking they "know" the celebrity is a big problem in general. It's why nutjobs break into their houses because they think a lyric they wrote was written specifically about them. It's insanity. I'm not saying OP is a nutjob, but he might be headed on that path if someone doesn't tell him straight.
Let's also not exclude the possibility that OP's post is not even genuine but a camouflaged attempt at drawing attention to the alleged theft of his idea. He seems to have a big victim complex ("boohoo he called me weird when I accused him of theft") and clearly wants to paint Geoff as the bad guy. Posting private PM conversations without permission only adds to the weirdness.
I think you're being too harsh on the guy, but OK.
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Russian Federation24 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I'm going to ask you one last time.. then I am just going to ignore you like I should have from the beginning. You are really generous but you are also super super creepy and really really weird. I am done talking to you and I'd like it if you stopped messaging me. So weird to see when a "boy" tells a "boy" something like this while being asked what seems to be an honest question, without even being provoked actually.
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you seem to feel personally wronged by public figures who don't even know you, and when they speak to you in a normal way you seem offended as if you think they should talk to you like a friend. you're a random person, so it's irrational expecting a public figure to immediately like you and talk to you just because you had an idea or because you think they stole your idea
i'm not a doctor, but your attitude seems paranoid and you seem a little unaware of the social context here: incontrol is a public figure who has to deal with all kinds of random messages from fans and trolls, and frankly he could have been even more rude to you, but he knows he's part of a community and wanted to let you down politely
it's possible that if english is a second language for you you might be writing in a way that confuses native speakers as to your attitude, which might be making incontrol feel even more awkward when he reads your messages. but regardless of that, he doesn't really owe you anything
keep in mind also that incontrol is a comedic guy, so calling you "creepy and weird" is his colorful way of speaking. you don't have to feel personally judged, incontrol isn't your dad or your doctor. normal people sometimes do things that are creepy by mistake, that's how we learn boundaries. just learn from it and move on. creepy to one person may be normal to another, but in this case you were being a bit invasive
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
The fact you posted a private message ( clue is in the title buddy) to a public blog makes you a weird, creepy dude and kind of a dick.
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Yes, you're creepy and weird. Congratulations.
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No you were neither weird nor creepy..
you were passionate and a little dumb, .. while the dumbness you can probably cure easy, i'm guessing your enthusiasm got curbed and that is really sad (that is why i'm posting by the way), i feel that sort of thing is very very very sad (your enthusiasm being lost?) and i'm typing this in the hope that said enthusiasm can survive through (so please try to make it so!) ..
.. also you were not a sheep like all the people who "taunted" you in this thread (or elsewhere) thinking they looked cool and adult and edgy blablabla, while they just sounded moronic .
incontrol is not a nice person for calling you that, but you got to get over yourself, he's like that with all his "fans".
Calling him out will get you little, he has a mob of kids like you that recite the "mehhhhhhh" every time they can.
Any "public figure" for kids is going to have a mob of sheep like he has that will put you down whatever grievance you can have with him.
(to be clear, "kid" here means 12 year old mentally, they can be 50 years old that does not matter).
Again, outing private messages is not what your parents taught you is it? So that is on you dude.
So there you ask yourself.. "so there is nothing i can do?"
Not really :/ life is not like that.
You felt wronged and wanted some kind of retribution done. But that's not what's going to happen, you will just get more and more pissed about it .. that is life.
You liked geoff .. do you like him now?
do you think this thread made other people change their minds about him?
He didn't like you, and now he ignores you .. that should be that.. but noooo ...ooohhh yes i forgot! he's famous and so many people bother him bouhou.. poor incontrol (lol) he was right to "spit" on you like that ...?!
It should be pretty clear that generally people are not the same on camera and off, incontrol is a douche online in every message i have seen him post and probably off camera he's not as funny as he can be when he's "working"
(just imagining him commenting on your donation and the ensuing stuff that lead you to read my post (insert illegal k twit ch emote here please) .. that should give anyone pause!)
.. just accept that and invest somewhere else.. and yes, don't say "i will still like you dude" to him..
because that makes you weird.
And yes, he's the creep not you.. he could have been nice and it would have cost him nothing, so just get over it.
Outing him in "good or bad ways" will do nothing though.. again, the sheep patrol will stonewall anyone that tries to show "famous" people in bad light, especially in a small "community" like sc2 is.
![[image loading]](https://pics.onsizzle.com/relax-nothing-is-under-control-h-the-age-of-enlightenment-6041400.png)
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I started this topic and I want to end it.
I wasn't really looking for insight about me as much I was looking for insight about this community.
I know my brain is limited by its perception, and so from time to time I check with other brains to review the same facts and judge their reaction. And it's a rare opportunity when you can present the facts exactly like they happened and feed the other brains with pretty much the same data that my brain had available to judge and make decisions.
I saw quite a few comments telling me posting his name without his permission was a dick move.I kind of agree but when you call me weird and creepy you're no longer entitled to expect any curtsy from me. So it was a dick move but I am OK with that.
Had he sent back the money the same maybe the situation would have been different.Maybe not.
I have to write emails for work everyday and there was once a situation where I sent one saying that I would rather have a root canal without anesthetic then use a certain contractor's support because of all the problems we had, but still I don't think I can send a message describing anyone I work with as weird and creepy without expecting some serious consequences.
In my opinion where ever you are known by your professional title that's where you work. Weather you're on the clock or not.I think that for him to write those messages after living with idra reaches autistic levels of stupidity, but really who am I to judge ?
I don't think that he necessarily stole my idea but I do know that I can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that I had that idea and that I sent it to him before they presented it in the pylon show.
The money I donated are now in the growing fund that I call "My personal stupidity tax".
It's not even the biggest amount of money I spent trying to do my part to contribute to the SC2 scene.
It's just another life lesson that I'm trying to learn so that I don't make the same mistake again.
What really hurt me was the no mention in the show.That was fucked up for me and it sent chills down my spine.It was painful but that's growing pain and I'm the only one responsible for that. I hope I've put it to good use and that I made the necessary adjustments in my life.
I'm honestly grateful for this lesson and I tried to get more out of it through this post, and I have .
I've been coming to TL for my starcraft fix for about ten years now.Only recently I was able to pay to support the site.And
I was curious to test TL and see if they would try to censor my opinion. They haven't yet so I will renew my subscription.
I was curious about the community too and I was pleasantly surprised. I found exactly what I was hoping for: smart, opinionated people who used arguments to justify their points.
The comments that didn't do that, I really don't give a fuck.
I have other priorities in life and to me this was a final sign that I shouldn't take projects that I don't have time to complete and throwing money at people doesn't really work and it's a fucking stupid idea. While I do have a concept that I like for a new post, I will go back to being a silent member of the community.
This was good for me, thanks to everyone involved !
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On September 20 2018 19:58 baiesradu wrote:
...
will go back to being a silent member of the community.
![[image loading]](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_LCveOZlgzdcOjLNwu5lDtF6vUjVzaSVS3ku8z6AytBQrstEI0g)
Curbed enthusiasms are sad!
I had the same thing happen to me over and over in this endeavor, have tried for 10 years to get to "famous" sc2 people to sell my own brand of tupperware through/with them (propositions and ideas to make the sc2 scene be "more")
and found myself failing over and over.
Failed at getting "friends/networking" on team liquid, I mean besides the "not getting permed" anymore
(which I could find "comforting" maybe but very far from an achievement)
failed on justin tv to get djwheat or chill
failed on twit ch to peek catz morrow's or qxc's interest,
failed on btttv, failed on tlmc,
never tried blizz hard 
failed to get personalities just to "hear me out" (and I guess that's what I'm most sorry about) .. much less get to try to make them understand what they could get out of it, or even how sc2 / rts would benefit.
Was probably even virtually branded somewhere somehow on the way...
Now lets be clear, my enthusiasm cannot be curbed, i don't need extra friends nor am i looking to make some through these endeavors .. i'm plainly looking to "contribute / be a part of" .
While I now do respectfully curb my demeanor to not frighten people away, I'm however completely incapable of
not "being myself"! (not gonna change what I like, not going to change the extent of my grasp, never going to change my opinions when they clearly matter! etc)
With that being said, I think I can "comment" on the whole "networking/supporting/kickstarter" issue.
I love the idea of it .. the whole thing, streams, live chats and direct contact between the producer and the viewer.
Paying for your esport fun so that a streamer(s) can provide you with "some form" of sc2 related fun seems fine to me as an exiting new business model,
however it seems these two following issues are highly underrated:
not only does it take really a lot out of said streamers,
.. it also is highly weird ("weird" as in new/untapped/complex) as a viewer / potential supporter/partner to these streamers.
The idea that if/when your product sells you just keep doing it seems very limited to me. When you add people that give support with money unto it .. you get a new kind of situation.
I suppose I'm now like you, .. stopped trying to get anything from tl besides the "right to exist"..
i'm sort of grabbing my marbles and standing down.
While I still want this rts community to exist.. I still feel I could bring much to it,
.. I'm even still working some streamers (like a relaxing exercise but with no real expectations)
while all this,
I mostly feel like it seems like I gave up..
and this after 10 years of "efforts"!?
Sad
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EPT
