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On August 31 2015 05:52 Robzi wrote: Good advice! I actually find it fun trying to actively looking at the mini map (although I am currently pretty bad at it). Do you have any tips advice regarding getting better at that?.
Play with no sound for a while. Works wonders for minimap awareness.
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TBH widow mines are perfectly fine as they are. The extra damage against Protoss is essential and they have many counter plays, take a long time to burrow etc.
More minimap awareness is the key, I typically take a long look at minimap -> main screen -> mins/gas -> back to main screen if I have money to spend etc -> minimap, repeat.
Also whilst I disagree with your suggestions and the need for them I feel that calling your ideas retarded (looking at you AkashSky) is just plain ignorant. Scientists looking for life in the most toxic environments on Earth should check out TL forums.
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Play with no sound for a while. Works wonders for minimap awareness.
Good idea, I am going to try that!
On August 31 2015 19:59 DeadByDawn wrote: Also whilst I disagree with your suggestions and the need for them I feel that calling your ideas retarded (looking at you AkashSky) is just plain ignorant. Scientists looking for life in the most toxic environments on Earth should check out TL forums.
Maybe he just has a bad vocabulary .
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+15damage vs shields (i.e. +55 in sum) please
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On August 31 2015 20:41 Big J wrote: +15damage vs shields please Considering the weakness of Terran against Protoss at the moment I do not believe that this is wise. A widow mine can be used for defence against Oracles when meching.
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On August 31 2015 21:32 DeadByDawn wrote:Considering the weakness of Terran against Protoss at the moment I do not believe that this is wise. A widow mine can be used for defence against Oracles when meching.
sry, I meant to say another +15vs shields, so +55 in sum.
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On August 31 2015 22:08 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 21:32 DeadByDawn wrote:On August 31 2015 20:41 Big J wrote: +15damage vs shields please Considering the weakness of Terran against Protoss at the moment I do not believe that this is wise. A widow mine can be used for defence against Oracles when meching. sry, I meant to say another +15vs shields, so +55 in sum. OK, I wondered as I normally agree with your posts as they seem balanced overall.
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On August 31 2015 22:27 DeadByDawn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 22:08 Big J wrote:On August 31 2015 21:32 DeadByDawn wrote:On August 31 2015 20:41 Big J wrote: +15damage vs shields please Considering the weakness of Terran against Protoss at the moment I do not believe that this is wise. A widow mine can be used for defence against Oracles when meching. sry, I meant to say another +15vs shields, so +55 in sum. OK, I wondered as I normally agree with your posts as they seem balanced overall.
Thanks man. In case you wonder, it would be the amount to one-shot an adept (pre-upgrade; which blizzard seems to reconsider anyways). Which is a bit of an ugly solution to the big amounts of adept health, but I feel like it would make sense just from a balance perspective as the widow mine is the main Terran vs Protoss form of splash to keep the mass gateway unit styles in check. It would have a few other implications (like one-shoting phoenix and just a bit more damage in general) but wouldn't be too big of a change if only applied to the main target damage as their main targets get one-shot either way. Unless blizzard aims to make a different splash unit (e.g. tanks or hellions or hellbats) more playable vs Protoss I think this would be one of the easiest balance solutions, both in terms of early game defense against the adept-rushes and in terms of crowd control.
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On August 31 2015 22:48 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 22:27 DeadByDawn wrote:On August 31 2015 22:08 Big J wrote:On August 31 2015 21:32 DeadByDawn wrote:On August 31 2015 20:41 Big J wrote: +15damage vs shields please Considering the weakness of Terran against Protoss at the moment I do not believe that this is wise. A widow mine can be used for defence against Oracles when meching. sry, I meant to say another +15vs shields, so +55 in sum. OK, I wondered as I normally agree with your posts as they seem balanced overall. Thanks man. In case you wonder, it would be the amount to one-shot an adept (pre-upgrade; which blizzard seems to reconsider anyways). Which is a bit of an ugly solution to the big amounts of adept health, but I feel like it would make sense just from a balance perspective as the widow mine is the main Terran vs Protoss form of splash to keep the mass gateway unit styles in check. It would have a few other implications (like one-shoting phoenix and just a bit more damage in general) but wouldn't be too big of a change if only applied to the main target damage as their main targets get one-shot either way. Unless blizzard aims to make a different splash unit (e.g. tanks or hellions or hellbats) more playable vs Protoss I think this would be one of the easiest balance solutions, both in terms of early game defense against the adept-rushes and in terms of crowd control.
I think tanks would fit that role better, you have more control over them, they have insteresting counter play and are very weak vs protoss ATM (unlike WM) so buffing them wouldn't be so bad. Also could be a nice buff to mech vs protoss.
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On August 31 2015 23:53 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 22:48 Big J wrote:On August 31 2015 22:27 DeadByDawn wrote:On August 31 2015 22:08 Big J wrote:On August 31 2015 21:32 DeadByDawn wrote:On August 31 2015 20:41 Big J wrote: +15damage vs shields please Considering the weakness of Terran against Protoss at the moment I do not believe that this is wise. A widow mine can be used for defence against Oracles when meching. sry, I meant to say another +15vs shields, so +55 in sum. OK, I wondered as I normally agree with your posts as they seem balanced overall. Thanks man. In case you wonder, it would be the amount to one-shot an adept (pre-upgrade; which blizzard seems to reconsider anyways). Which is a bit of an ugly solution to the big amounts of adept health, but I feel like it would make sense just from a balance perspective as the widow mine is the main Terran vs Protoss form of splash to keep the mass gateway unit styles in check. It would have a few other implications (like one-shoting phoenix and just a bit more damage in general) but wouldn't be too big of a change if only applied to the main target damage as their main targets get one-shot either way. Unless blizzard aims to make a different splash unit (e.g. tanks or hellions or hellbats) more playable vs Protoss I think this would be one of the easiest balance solutions, both in terms of early game defense against the adept-rushes and in terms of crowd control. I think tanks would fit that role better, you have more control over them, they have insteresting counter play and are very weak vs protoss ATM (unlike WM) so buffing them wouldn't be so bad. Also could be a nice buff to mech vs protoss.
I don't think so. The tank is traditionally a bad unit against units that can swarm it easily and charge, shade, blink as well as prism drops+warpins mid-battle all provide that. Even with higher damage vs non-armored or shields I think it would be of limited use against gateway heavy play styles - in a balanced state - plainly by design. At least if you want to use them as support and not go full mech, probably turtlemech to get the numbers up. The cheap and mobile widow mine, designed around higher (burst) damage and lower range plainly fits the role better. Or is at least much easier to balance into a fitting state, while rebalancing/redesigning the siege tank would be quite hard given its core role in TvT, in TvZ Mech and in LotV even a bit in TvZ Bio.
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On September 01 2015 00:12 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 23:53 Lexender wrote:On August 31 2015 22:48 Big J wrote:On August 31 2015 22:27 DeadByDawn wrote:On August 31 2015 22:08 Big J wrote:On August 31 2015 21:32 DeadByDawn wrote:On August 31 2015 20:41 Big J wrote: +15damage vs shields please Considering the weakness of Terran against Protoss at the moment I do not believe that this is wise. A widow mine can be used for defence against Oracles when meching. sry, I meant to say another +15vs shields, so +55 in sum. OK, I wondered as I normally agree with your posts as they seem balanced overall. Thanks man. In case you wonder, it would be the amount to one-shot an adept (pre-upgrade; which blizzard seems to reconsider anyways). Which is a bit of an ugly solution to the big amounts of adept health, but I feel like it would make sense just from a balance perspective as the widow mine is the main Terran vs Protoss form of splash to keep the mass gateway unit styles in check. It would have a few other implications (like one-shoting phoenix and just a bit more damage in general) but wouldn't be too big of a change if only applied to the main target damage as their main targets get one-shot either way. Unless blizzard aims to make a different splash unit (e.g. tanks or hellions or hellbats) more playable vs Protoss I think this would be one of the easiest balance solutions, both in terms of early game defense against the adept-rushes and in terms of crowd control. I think tanks would fit that role better, you have more control over them, they have insteresting counter play and are very weak vs protoss ATM (unlike WM) so buffing them wouldn't be so bad. Also could be a nice buff to mech vs protoss. I don't think so. The tank is traditionally a bad unit against units that can swarm it easily and charge, shade, blink as well as prism drops+warpins mid-battle all provide that. Even with higher damage vs non-armored or shields I think it would be of limited use against gateway heavy play styles - in a balanced state - plainly by design. At least if you want to use them as support and not go full mech, probably turtlemech to get the numbers up. The cheap and mobile widow mine, designed around higher (burst) damage and lower range plainly fits the role better. Or is at least much easier to balance into a fitting state, while rebalancing/redesigning the siege tank would be quite hard given its core role in TvT, in TvZ Mech and in LotV even a bit in TvZ Bio.
Yes for sure, wich is why I like tanks better than WM, if the WM was buffed then WM would counter gateway play and I've never been a fan of units that can only be dealt with other specific unit, with tanks you would have 3 good support units for your bio (liberator, WM, tank) and you could use differently and for different uses and play styles, you may even use more than one at a time (maybe the vision of blizzard of using WM and tanks together could work?).
Maybe or maybe not, I think is more interesing solution, but is hard to know, maybe it would work like shit.
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On August 31 2015 19:59 DeadByDawn wrote: TBH widow mines are perfectly fine as they are. The extra damage against Protoss is essential and they have many counter plays, take a long time to burrow etc.
More minimap awareness is the key, I typically take a long look at minimap -> main screen -> mins/gas -> back to main screen if I have money to spend etc -> minimap, repeat.
Also whilst I disagree with your suggestions and the need for them I feel that calling your ideas retarded (looking at you AkashSky) is just plain ignorant. Scientists looking for life in the most toxic environments on Earth should check out TL forums.
Well I admit that retarded was a strong word to use, but it described EXACTLY how I felt about the subject matter, so I used it.
I didn't mean to attack the OP, if that's the impression you are getting. I attacked the idea, which is something that teamliquid forums allow.
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I think when Blizzard reinstates the macro mechanics (Boosters), things like WM drops will not be as big of a deal, and talking about nerfing / buffing the WM is silly because everything is about to change (AGAIN) really soon.
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I think they did the right thing in LotV with the laser indicator that shows which unit is being targeted so you can micro it away.
Before that it was a total crap shoot. Now at least there is counter micro potential if you're good.
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In all honesty I like the idea of it not targeting workers, but I don't like the idea of it targeting your own units. I'd prefer if it were a mine and died after it shot, like a baneling, but that might be too hard of a nerf. Maybe if it were more like a spider mine and didn't cost... say a Cyclone could deploy one WM after a research, the WM's don't target workers and they don't cost supply but they died after shooting. I don't know how well that'd work out though.
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