Cyclones and their potential
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parkufarku
882 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2617 Posts
On May 30 2015 13:50 parkufarku wrote: I think it's pretty much understood that Cyclones are a very strong unit right now. Ability to shoot air, strong damage, relatively cheap and thus can be massed. What do you guys feel about the range & its movement speed? Anyone else think that the ability to kite and it's strong stats / usage makes the unit very similar to Warhound 2.0? Do we think Cyclones will make it out of the beta unscathed? What can we do to really tweak it? I'm all about lowering the range or the movement speed on it, but we can leave the damage intact. Or cut out its ability to shoot air. Mass Cyclones even beats out mass Carriers, which doesn't make sense, seeing a low cost cheap unit beat out a expensive high tier unit. Thats a very narrow way to see it, you have to see cyclone not as a lone unit but as a part of the mech army. Speed and ability to shoot air are the 2 things I would left untouched. They need to be far weaker (dps and hitpoints) have less range (not sure how much but some) and cheaper (so they are easy to make but very supply inneficient when massed) Mech doesn't need another slow high damage unit (specially since they gutted the posibility to add air early on) it needs a fast unit that can be around on the map. As for the AA, I think they should leave it, there are far too many hardcounter, air vs mech is already one in HotS and we have combined upgrades there. Also they should require vision to keep the lock on, that would add TONS of counter micro to it. | ||
parkufarku
882 Posts
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Korakys
New Zealand272 Posts
They should be strong versus air and weak versus ground. That would complement the hellion too. I'm not a big fan of the way the lock-on mechanic works either. | ||
StalkerFang
Australia68 Posts
Not sure this changes the overarching questions about what the unit should accomplish for mech but at least it makes the unit a bit more interesting and hopefully adds some more control requirements. | ||
_indigo_
Slovenia171 Posts
Oh, and that "other air unit" is trash in AA mode. | ||
Coffeee
Switzerland17 Posts
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crown77
United States157 Posts
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Gaskal
Canada241 Posts
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nesmah
France26 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
Also, they're quite strong early game, would be nice to see perhaps an HP nerf or something. | ||
Beelzebub1
999 Posts
Where the tank buffs guys? O_o I despise the lock on mechanic, this is not a MOBA, please stop introducing MOBA like features into this game, they got away with it a tad with the whole Kog Maw/Ravager ability because at least it takes micro and skill to perform, but this lock on thing is just heinously noob friendly and bad bad bad to watch. It's fast, it micro's 50% FOR you with lock on, and it has no meaningful micro interactions (think Reapers and Queens, Hellions and Zerglings ect.) with other units besides against maybe Phoenixs and Stalkers. | ||
crown77
United States157 Posts
The other thing I wanted to ask is instead of changing the cyclone would changing the economy or other aspects of the game help make this unit feel more at home in legacy? The other two races could out produce the cyclone heavy meching terran with more disposable units like zerglings and zealots if they were defending early pushes. How do you feel about adding a chance to miss type dynamic to "fix" the cyclone. What if the further a unit was from the cyclone the greater the chance to miss was? What this could mean for lotv is that you could actually runaway from engagements without losing half of your roach or stalker army; consider a dropship that narrowly escapes into fow. | ||
Allred
United States352 Posts
On May 31 2015 04:48 crown77 wrote: How do you feel about adding a chance to miss type dynamic to "fix" the cyclone. What if the further a unit was from the cyclone the greater the chance to miss was? What this could mean for lotv is that you could actually runaway from engagements without losing half of your roach or stalker army; consider a dropship that narrowly escapes into fow. It seems as if blizzard has wanted to make units more reliable. hence attacking a unit in trees or on a cliff made it so you did not always hit. this is not true in sc2. adding the chance to not hit makes the unit less reliable. | ||
crown77
United States157 Posts
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On May 31 2015 03:22 Beelzebub1 wrote: They need to reverse the last set of changes, this unit should be an anti air dedicated early game and the anti ground scales later on in the game, or else why even build the damn thing? That's the whole purpose of the Hellion and the Tank, Tanks hold the ground and hellions go out and secure map control. When I first thought of Cyclones I was really hoping they be almost a mobile missile turret for mech so they wouldn't have to rely on Thors (slow) or Viking fleet (hard to split your factory expenditures by building a million starports to pump out lots of them) both of which leads to death balling. Where the tank buffs guys? O_o I despise the lock on mechanic, this is not a MOBA, please stop introducing MOBA like features into this game, they got away with it a tad with the whole Kog Maw/Ravager ability because at least it takes micro and skill to perform, but this lock on thing is just heinously noob friendly and bad bad bad to watch. It's fast, it micro's 50% FOR you with lock on, and it has no meaningful micro interactions (think Reapers and Queens, Hellions and Zerglings ect.) with other units besides against maybe Phoenixs and Stalkers. I don't think you know how mobas work | ||
XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On May 30 2015 13:50 parkufarku wrote: I think it's pretty much understood that Cyclones are a very strong unit right now. Ability to shoot air, strong damage, relatively cheap and thus can be massed. What do you guys feel about the range & its movement speed? Anyone else think that the ability to kite and it's strong stats / usage makes the unit very similar to Warhound 2.0? Do we think Cyclones will make it out of the beta unscathed? What can we do to really tweak it? I'm all about lowering the range or the movement speed on it, but we can leave the damage intact. Or cut out its ability to shoot air. Mass Cyclones even beats out mass Carriers, which doesn't make sense, seeing a low cost cheap unit beat out a expensive high tier unit. Mass Marines, beats mass carriers as well. That's how it is supposed to work, | ||
HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
With mech and air upgrades split I don't see why Cyclone needs any further nerf, it would make this already Zerg favored game unplayable. Earlly game adepts, Mass Carriers, Parasitic bomb, Mass Mutas are the things that seriously need nerfing imo. | ||
winsonsonho
Korea (South)143 Posts
If this unit makes it into the multiplayer with this mechanic and even a number of nerfs then I will be speechless.. LOTV is already doomed from reaching anywhere near its potential in my opinion. A number of terrible units exist that Blizz will sadly never remove (at least they've rightly nerfed a few into uselessness - swarm host, collosus). The mechanics and implementation like Warp Gate, Forcefield, Concussive Shells and Fungal. The messed economy. Those fun deathballs and hard-counters. But a unit like the Cyclone is laughable. It may seem like I'm very negative, but actually I'm very positive that free-to-play Starbow can reach its potential :D | ||
dust7
199 Posts
On June 01 2015 02:18 winsonsonho wrote: I don't understand how people are looking past the fact that the Cyclone can move and shoot at the same time. Blizzard tried it with the Diamondback and that was ridiculous, why are they trying to implement it again? I still think it doesn't belong on the Phoenix, but at least it is somewhat passable to a small degree on a flying unit that has a limited role. It takes away any real skill required in using a units movement and attack characteristics together. Well, we wanted moving shot right? This is what Blizzard thinks we meant. | ||
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