EPTYes, i did those things. Because someone does not udestand why it does not make me mafia for fucks sake. Read the fucking case, it's crap because it is "you did X and i think you would not do that as town".
[M][N] Default Suspicions Mafia - Page 113
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
Yes, i did those things. Because someone does not udestand why it does not make me mafia for fucks sake. Read the fucking case, it's crap because it is "you did X and i think you would not do that as town". | ||
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Balla24
2322 Posts
On February 24 2014 05:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: No i don't, especailly when the case is "you did something i don't understand and that's why you are mafia". Well no shit, what am i supposed to say? "no you do understand"? Is this serious? A big factor is that you refuse to try to make me understand... My points aren't that I don't understand, it's that I think you can't explain what you were thinking when you do stuff. You should have reasoning for saying and doing stuff right? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On February 24 2014 05:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO SAY? Yes, i did those things. Because someone does not udestand why it does not make me mafia for fucks sake. Read the fucking case, it's crap because it is "you did X and i think you would not do that as town". Well. You could just be friendly and counter his arguments instead of doing wtf you are doing. Imagine everybody acting on cases like you are acting. Could you explain to me why Balla is scum? I don't see it. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On February 24 2014 05:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: He is being right for very wrong reasons and he makes cases that are not about why someone is mafia, and when he's been questioned about them instead of answering he makes new cases. Well, when you find time show me these very wrong reasons. I can understand that his townread on suki seemed strange but I was arguing with the same guy in the obs QT in shadowed. His big post with scum Toad and Kush seemed maybe coming out of the blue but his case on Alakaslam in shadowed was also pretty new when he posted it and he was right. Isn't it interesting he puts suki and prplhz as town in his post and marv/rayn as null? If he is scum he puts the storng people as null and possible mislynches as town. And his scumbuddies as scum? That's very brave. | ||
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Balla24
2322 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
##Vote: kushm4sta | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
marv Palmar rayn Koshi prplhz Possible townie: Oats Scum pool: kush Slam Balla To be honest, if kush is gonna troll and be an arse and balla is gonna try, i'm happy to lynch kush first, because there's a decent chance he'll be mafia. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On February 24 2014 06:15 Koshi wrote: Well, when you find time show me these very wrong reasons. I can understand that his townread on suki seemed strange but I was arguing with the same guy in the obs QT in shadowed. His big post with scum Toad and Kush seemed maybe coming out of the blue but his case on Alakaslam in shadowed was also pretty new when he posted it and he was right. Isn't it interesting he puts suki and prplhz as town in his post and marv/rayn as null? If he is scum he puts the storng people as null and possible mislynches as town. And his scumbuddies as scum? That's very brave. What actually bugs me is not the fact that he put me as questionable then (although that bugs me) - it's that later on when I'd posted a TON more (and decent posting) he still wasn't willing to call me town. That's at the very least terrible, weak play if balla is town (sorry balla if you're town, but it just is) Further if Balla is mafia then Slam is his likely partner, not kush. Because what Balla did is have his cases on kush and Toad but he had his vote on kush and not Toad. This is a classic mafia play, having 2 scum suspects and having your vote on the townie and looking good later for having scum as scum. Balla only put his vote on Toadesstern later when the lynch was a formality. I'm willing to vote kush though, if kush flips town then Balla is an autolynch. Or we can lynch Slam who probably has the highest individual chance of flipping mafia. I don't care all that much honestly. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
I agree in full with the list above. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On February 24 2014 08:12 Palmar wrote: I'm probably just sheeping marv today tbh. I agree in full with the list above. Let's make it interesting and put our vote on the guy we think has the most chance of flipping scum. It's not that important to put all votes on 1 person 24/7. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On February 24 2014 08:36 Koshi wrote: Let's make it interesting and put our vote on the guy we think has the most chance of flipping scum. It's not that important to put all votes on 1 person 24/7. Maybe tomorrow. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17322 Posts
After what Kush did you want to lynch me, and also want to lynch me over Balla? ... Hijole, the curse Be gone get lynched- who coined that law? | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
VIVAX420 (2): Koshi, Koshi (0): prplhz (0): Oatsmaster (1): raynpelikoneet (1): Balla24, Balla24 (5): Balla24 is set to be lynched Next deadline: Deadline date: Tuesday, Feb 25 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) | ||
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Balla24
2322 Posts
On February 23 2014 11:37 Balla24 wrote: Tell me rayn if all that is so shit: - Justfiy your townread of kush, even if its different today I want to know why you thought kush was town yesterday. - Elaborate on how I am playing toward my scum meta, or at least how I was yesterday. - Explain to me why you decided NOT to push me for a lynch instead of toad if you thought toad was so townie. If it's shit then you should easily be able to explain all of this with EASE. Moving on: ##vote kushm4sta/vivax420 Kush is obviously mafia. I said it D1 and all he's done since then is not read the thread and get himself in more trouble lol.. this is the second time he's claimed he's slipped. I'll spend this section going over the arguments against me and why they don't make me mafia, and what my thought process was during the moments. This is basically just going to be re-iterating what i've said previously to them, but consolidated and commenting on stuff that I felt was not necessary to comment on before. On February 23 2014 09:43 marvellosity wrote: if anyone wonders why I think Balla could be mafia, think Slam+suki+Palmar's signature This point is completely and totally unfair. My reasons for town-reading suki were fine and nobody has attacked it yet. I find her flip-flopping very very characteristic of town suki and this is NOT the first time I have used this logic to success when reading suki. I used it successfully in Shadowed Mafia (non-reboot), and successfully read her when she was NOT flip-flopping in the reboot. Including this one, I am 3/3 reading correctly as town, which doesn't say much because she has hasn't been mafia but still, me reading suki correctly is completely non-indicative of my alignment. Answer me this, if I was to flip, are you going to lynch Koshi next for being the only one to town read me? Because if you go down that path you are going to lose the game. I am not mafia because I was right on 1 of my reads. I was somewhat wrong on CFP wasn't I? As far as Slam goes, he hasn't even flipped so I don't know how you can hold that against me. On February 23 2014 10:17 marvellosity wrote: Exhibit 1: Balla never mentions the arguments that Palmar and I push on Toad, and only asks other people about Toad's alignment without commenting himself, until he made his megapost with Toad as mafia. Also unfair and completely circumstantial. I asked other people about Toad's alignment when I thought their reads were funky. For example, Palmar: He thought suki/prplhz/me were scummy and unvoted Kush because of it, yet he goes to Toad instead of trying to pressure the people he thought were scummy on the Kush lynch. I think that is a questionable town play, because you could try to figure out the intentions of the people pushing a kush lynch instead of just assuming they are scum. Followup point: On February 23 2014 10:41 marvellosity wrote: It's very difficult for me to believe that the most influential player in the game (you may not know me, but you can tell by how people interact with me) makes a case on someone and you totally fail to mention it in any capacity. Especially when you commented so much on so much else. I didn't comment on your arguments cause I had absolutely nothing to add. You say I comment on everything else right? Then why is not commenting on a single thing scummy? If you think I ignore stuff as scum, wouldn't this be a pattern? On February 23 2014 10:34 marvellosity wrote: And yet Balla voted the totally absent sidesprang? This isn't even a real point because you are ignoring my reasoning for voting sidesprang, whereas Palmar (who I am talking about in that quote) did not provide reasoning, hence why I am curious!!! My reason for voting sidesprang was clear: Sidesprang voted ME specifically for a reason, therefore he might have been testing my reaction, therefore I gave him one! It only occured to me afterwards that it was a pre-game plan thus had no bearing on the game. On February 23 2014 17:55 kushm4sta wrote: but oats, why would town get annoyed at someone they thought was scum? I don't know? Because rayn is being a child? Especially if he's town. Same reason I get mad when I ask people to explain townreads and they go "nah i dont know how that will help" instead of just explaining their town read. I'm trying to figure out people's alignments and they aren't helping me to do that because they are conceited. Think about it, if rayn is town then all he's doing is fueling my fire instead of trying to put it out like he should be. On February 23 2014 23:27 marvellosity wrote: As it stands suki was becoming suspicious of balla and she has played several games with him CuteFluffyPuppy found Balla's reactions to the fakeclaim thing suspicious Balla failed at any time to address the case on Toadesstern, and I don't really buy the argument "I felt nothing either way so I didn't comment on it at all" Is probably the most likely mafia person on Toadesstern if one exists Kept asking Palmar why his vote was on Toadesstern (when it was obvious that the Toad case was the strongest in the thread apart from anything else) puts obv-town marvellosity under a heading "pretty questionable" and tries to palm it off saying I'm on the townside (personal reason :D) Suki's reasoning was terrible. Genuine, but terrible. If you recall, she went from townreading me for meta and for going at rayn saying "I would never attack rayn like that as scum", to having a conversation with kush, to scumreading me. Here it is: + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2014 00:30 suki wrote: kush you played with Balla in Normal Mini Mafia: Episode 1. He is much more careful in what he says, much less confident. He can't even produce content the way he has this game as scum, much less attack a player the way he did. It doesn't even have to be rayn. Scum balla just doesn't play this way. I really find it weird that you don't see this seeing as you clearly saw the difference in NM:E1 beginning of game mid-game when people were calling balla out for being scummy and kush was voting balla. You seem to be thinking Balla is suspicious at this moment. Why didn't you think Balla was scummy at the beginning of the game and call him out, when he was clearly inactive? Why are you questioning my townread of Balla when you yourself read Balla as town earlier on? Your line of thought on Balla just doesn't line up at all. On February 23 2014 00:33 VIVAX420 wrote: because degree of activity has nothing to do with alignment most of the time? i dind't see anything scummy early game. And no i wouldn't describe him as a "timid" scum. He is quite capable, it;s just that he wasn't trying that hard those scum games. and furthermore, ive since downgraded my opinion of his towngame from when I said those quotes. now does my line of thought line up? On February 23 2014 00:42 suki wrote: Obviously I'm looking at Kush being mafia, for having such a shitty read on Balla. But his responses are coherent and make sense. Taking another look at Balla's filter some things really don't add up. Calling marv questionable is a really weird thing. His case on toad also bad. His case on you bad. Bussing Toad is definitely a plausible move for scum Balla. I guess I just liked the fact that he was hard defending me :| Kush looks more townie to me right now from this exchange. Balla looks worse. I do think Oats is town so scum suspect was kush and slam. Add Balla to the list now. CFP had a similar thought process. He went from meta-reading me as super townie from IIRC filter-size alone, yet right at the end of the day he thought my reaction was scummy? Didn't even really provide reasoning for why. Just generic "falling apart" comments since I was putting him down as possible scum when I was asked to provide my reads ASAP. I'm sorry but this is NOT something you should be taking into account considering how on the fly this section of the game was at. If he had sat down and thought about it maybe he would have came up with something different. On February 23 2014 23:27 marvellosity wrote: puts obv-town marvellosity under a heading "pretty questionable" and tries to palm it off saying I'm on the townside (personal reason :D) This is arrogant (<3) and actually pretty unreasonable. You should know I respect you marv and you are very good at this game and everybody knows that. If anything, me not being sold on you being town should be townie, ESPECIALLY if you think I would use information bias to give suki a town read but NOT YOU. You're good at this game as both scum and town, so why should I give you a town read off the bat. It is also pretty clearly indicated that I think you were doing pro-town things, but there was something bothering me: Marv is generating a LOT of content and asking plenty of good questions. But he also seems content to just sit within a shit storm and let it happen/contribute to it which is scummy. He has one instance of trying to move the thread forward during one of those shit storms (during the toad debacle) in which he suggests to move forward since we aren't going to get anything more out of it, however that was way after and was actually producing useful content. I'm referencing things like his conversation with kush. How is that NOT a reasonable read? Look if you think I would town read suki using information bias over you, then this needs to be a point in my favor OR you need to switch them around and drop the "he was right about suki" thing. On February 24 2014 05:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: No i don't, especailly when the case is "you did something i don't understand and that's why you are mafia". Well no shit, what am i supposed to say? "no you do understand"? This is not my case at all and again, if you think I am misunderstanding something then you need to make it clear to me. Even if you are sure someone is mafia (which you shouldn't be, btw, I really don't understand how you of all people could be so confident i'm mafia since you've played with me before) you need to respond to them like you would to a townie in the possibility that they ARE town, because their interactions with you DEPEND on it. Listen rayn, if we switched positions and I wasn't explaining anything that you think I'm mafia for, would you think I was mafia? Yes, obviously, I've seen this situation with you as town and someone else happen before. Actually, I think it was kush in normal mini when "he has a huge pile of un-explained townreads" that I already quoted in another post. So it's a real shock that you think my scum read of you is unreasonable. On February 24 2014 05:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: He is being right for very wrong reasons and he makes cases that are not about why someone is mafia, and when he's been questioned about them instead of answering he makes new cases. I already explained how my reasons are NOT WRONG. Why you are mafia follows from my points, and furthermore, if you have bad explanations for those points then it makes you mafia (which you havent given ANY explanation). When I'm being questioned (by you) you mis-represent my case A LOT. I never make new cases, maybe I explain my point in a different way, or use NEW EVIDENCE to support my POINT/CASE but that is NOT making a new case and you are very wrong about this. This conversation is what rayn is referring to for anyone wondering: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=443848¤tpage=69#1365 On February 24 2014 08:02 marvellosity wrote: What actually bugs me is not the fact that he put me as questionable then (although that bugs me) - it's that later on when I'd posted a TON more (and decent posting) he still wasn't willing to call me town. That's at the very least terrible, weak play if balla is town (sorry balla if you're town, but it just is) Further if Balla is mafia then Slam is his likely partner, not kush. Because what Balla did is have his cases on kush and Toad but he had his vote on kush and not Toad. This is a classic mafia play, having 2 scum suspects and having your vote on the townie and looking good later for having scum as scum. Balla only put his vote on Toadesstern later when the lynch was a formality. I'm willing to vote kush though, if kush flips town then Balla is an autolynch. Or we can lynch Slam who probably has the highest individual chance of flipping mafia. I don't care all that much honestly. Uhm... i'm actually confused here on the first point... if you could reference that that'd be great, because i'm pretty sure after my large post where i called you questionable, you and a few others were like HOLY SHIT BALLA THATS SO BAD MARV CANT POSSIBLY MAKE FILTER THIS BIG and it pissed me off and i was like ok he's town, after that when was I hesitant to call you town? #2 I can't comment on unless you have a specific question because it's just straight up speculation on not yet flipped players. #3 is unfair and isn't alignment indicative because townies do that all the time. I clearly specified my intention to lynch either of them. This is WIFOM and i've been trying to avoid using WIFOM because it's fucking annoying BUT I think it is very very relevant. If I was scum, wouldn't I have purposefully TRIED to put my vote in BEFORE it was a formality? | ||
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