EPTWBGs case:+ Show Spoiler +
On January 05 2013 03:50 wherebugsgo wrote:
Jesus stop fucking spamming. Coming from me, this game has too many posts and I spam myself quite a lot. The last four pages at least have been nothing but one liners. I went to sleep 7 hours ago and the thread was inflated by 300 posts. What the fuck? What makes any of you think that posting so much useless shit is helpful for finding scum?
First of all, Palmar is right now possibly the most anti-town player in the game. Literally no one has a good reason to be on marv right now, and if you have sheeped Palmar you really need to get your head out of your ass and go read a newbie guide.
Two things on this point:
#1 marv is not a good lynch today. He's a very good asset if he is town and he is quite honestly not that scummy. Certainly he hasn't done much today but you can say this about literally anyone. Nothing in his filter seems to have been motivated by a scum background and everything he has said can be plausibly explained from a town perspective. He's a good enough player that if his reads are bad (they are not) and if he has not done anything for a few days (yes, a couple days-he's a prime night kill target if town) then he should die.
I am highly surprised that Palmar is choosing to attack marv on such weak evidence (he basically cherry-picked his filter) when there is, IMO, a much better vet target in the game that you could make a much stronger case on (Foolishness).
+ Show Spoiler +
#2 BC is not a good lynch today either. His last post conforms to how I think BC actually thinks about the game. I don't think he is necessarily right, as it is certainly possible for Palmar to be of either alignment-for now, I lean town given that Palmar actually took time to make a spreadsheet (and some of the reads make sense) but I don't think he is a good lynch.
With all of this said, I think the kill for today should be:
Hopeless1der or Meapak.
I would prefer to kill Hopeless today, and so I'm not going to comment on why I find Meapak scummy.
I think Hopeless is the best lynch.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=123725¤tpage=2
Looking at Hopeless's posts, he questions a lot and stays mostly under the radar. If you notice, he takes no opinions of his own. He also says things scum are very likely to say: "I don't find this guy scummy, but....idk, it might pigeonhole me later so I might lynch him later!" He said that about literally every player that was brought up. In addition, he took the random lynching VERY seriously, and often the people who take things like that very seriously are either scum or dumb. I certainly don't think Hopeless is dumb, so that leaves scum.
Finally, his meta:
Here are quotes from 4 different games. Try to note the differences, before I point them out myself, and try to see if you can guess his alignment correctly.
+ Show Spoiler [game1] +
+ Show Spoiler [game2] +
+ Show Spoiler [game3] +
+ Show Spoiler [game4] +
##unvote
##vote Hopeless1der
Jesus stop fucking spamming. Coming from me, this game has too many posts and I spam myself quite a lot. The last four pages at least have been nothing but one liners. I went to sleep 7 hours ago and the thread was inflated by 300 posts. What the fuck? What makes any of you think that posting so much useless shit is helpful for finding scum?
First of all, Palmar is right now possibly the most anti-town player in the game. Literally no one has a good reason to be on marv right now, and if you have sheeped Palmar you really need to get your head out of your ass and go read a newbie guide.
Two things on this point:
#1 marv is not a good lynch today. He's a very good asset if he is town and he is quite honestly not that scummy. Certainly he hasn't done much today but you can say this about literally anyone. Nothing in his filter seems to have been motivated by a scum background and everything he has said can be plausibly explained from a town perspective. He's a good enough player that if his reads are bad (they are not) and if he has not done anything for a few days (yes, a couple days-he's a prime night kill target if town) then he should die.
I am highly surprised that Palmar is choosing to attack marv on such weak evidence (he basically cherry-picked his filter) when there is, IMO, a much better vet target in the game that you could make a much stronger case on (Foolishness).
+ Show Spoiler +
However I'm not suggesting we kill Foolishness today since he is arguably the best asset for town in the game if he is town, and generally his day 1 is very trolly and lurky
#2 BC is not a good lynch today either. His last post conforms to how I think BC actually thinks about the game. I don't think he is necessarily right, as it is certainly possible for Palmar to be of either alignment-for now, I lean town given that Palmar actually took time to make a spreadsheet (and some of the reads make sense) but I don't think he is a good lynch.
With all of this said, I think the kill for today should be:
Hopeless1der or Meapak.
I would prefer to kill Hopeless today, and so I'm not going to comment on why I find Meapak scummy.
I think Hopeless is the best lynch.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=123725¤tpage=2
Looking at Hopeless's posts, he questions a lot and stays mostly under the radar. If you notice, he takes no opinions of his own. He also says things scum are very likely to say: "I don't find this guy scummy, but....idk, it might pigeonhole me later so I might lynch him later!" He said that about literally every player that was brought up. In addition, he took the random lynching VERY seriously, and often the people who take things like that very seriously are either scum or dumb. I certainly don't think Hopeless is dumb, so that leaves scum.
Finally, his meta:
Here are quotes from 4 different games. Try to note the differences, before I point them out myself, and try to see if you can guess his alignment correctly.
+ Show Spoiler [game1] +
On November 01 2012 10:49 Hopeless1der wrote:
Acro, I just want to confirm that you think Kush derped (i.e. is probably town) and that Release might have derped but it was very scummy and you'd lean towards him being scum. Is that correct?
I grudgingly agree that kush derps pretty consistently.
Acro, I just want to confirm that you think Kush derped (i.e. is probably town) and that Release might have derped but it was very scummy and you'd lean towards him being scum. Is that correct?
I grudgingly agree that kush derps pretty consistently.
On November 02 2012 03:36 Hopeless1der wrote:
And then I turn around and say SCUMBUDDY!! And then we argue, probably lynch muso anyways. Do you not see that as a potential outcome? I see that as the more likely outcome at this point.
If a mason flips, is their partner revealed?
Also, unanswered questions:
...He creating "proof" that he is a mason. If he dies, his partner decrypts the message, becomes confirmed town. There are games that explicitly do not allow it, this one made no distinction. Do you think it makes Acro scummy?
And then I turn around and say SCUMBUDDY!! And then we argue, probably lynch muso anyways. Do you not see that as a potential outcome? I see that as the more likely outcome at this point.
If a mason flips, is their partner revealed?
Also, unanswered questions:
...He creating "proof" that he is a mason. If he dies, his partner decrypts the message, becomes confirmed town. There are games that explicitly do not allow it, this one made no distinction. Do you think it makes Acro scummy?
On November 03 2012 01:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
This post just strengthens my resolve to lynch you Muso.
"If in the future Promethelax rolls town, I highly suggest interrogating Hopeless1der."
In this scenario, I'm scum for NOT wanting to lynch a townie. Please clarify what you mean if you're still around.
This post just strengthens my resolve to lynch you Muso.
"If in the future Promethelax rolls town, I highly suggest interrogating Hopeless1der."
In this scenario, I'm scum for NOT wanting to lynch a townie. Please clarify what you mean if you're still around.
On November 03 2012 06:49 Hopeless1der wrote:
Is that a short answer for "fuck it, lynch Muso"?
Is that a short answer for "fuck it, lynch Muso"?
+ Show Spoiler [game2] +
On July 05 2012 06:59 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Lazer, you're already contradicting yourself and its only one post:
Geez it was even in the same paragraph. Which one is it?!
@Jingle - Well, I didn't (and still don't) know to what it refers. I'd google it, but if its anywhere as bad as it seems, doing so from work is probably a bad idea. This better not give me nightmares...
@Lazer, you're already contradicting yourself and its only one post:
Geez it was even in the same paragraph. Which one is it?!
@Jingle - Well, I didn't (and still don't) know to what it refers. I'd google it, but if its anywhere as bad as it seems, doing so from work is probably a bad idea. This better not give me nightmares...
On July 05 2012 07:22 Hopeless1der wrote:
What?...I...Its right there..with the underlined..
- There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie
- Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue
Is that not a contradiction? or did you mean actually claim as blue, not fakeclaim, because that's literally the only way those two statements don't conflict with one another.
Mackin give the poor guy a chance, he's just a little excited I think. I just wanted to give him a heads up so he checks his posts more carefully, that way we can narrow down our scum lists earlier rather than later.
What?...I...Its right there..with the underlined..
- There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie
- Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue
Is that not a contradiction? or did you mean actually claim as blue, not fakeclaim, because that's literally the only way those two statements don't conflict with one another.
Mackin give the poor guy a chance, he's just a little excited I think. I just wanted to give him a heads up so he checks his posts more carefully, that way we can narrow down our scum lists earlier rather than later.
On July 05 2012 10:19 Hopeless1der wrote:
This will be a good test to see how a bandwagon gets started then I suppose.
Jingle's done this before, just calling someone out based on their name being strange or the icon next to their name. The early posts are just random crap to get people talking. His post about lurkers is suspicious, but if we let people lurk, there's going to be some scum in the pile.
Throwing an early lynch at lurkers forces them to be more active, so there is more chance at scumslips instead of nothing to go on at all for those players. They all look scummy when they say and do nothing. The last couple games I've played/obs'd have been riddled with people being replaced and lurking and it completely screws with town's ability to make consistent reads. However, most of those games were majority lynch so the lurker problem had a much bigger impact.
If we have scum reads we should definitely push them. I don't think a lynch lurker mentality is that beneficial to town given our voting system. Any lurking scum can jump on any suspicion very easily and not look any worse than the next lurker that just follows the pack. Good scum reads will force them out of the woodwork to cast suspicion on someone else.
And I'm still not casting a vote as we're still waiting on 4 players to make a post and for Evulrabbitz and zen_man to do something relevant. The way rabbitz has disappeared concerns me as he ducked out just as we started getting to the not completely useless posts.
This will be a good test to see how a bandwagon gets started then I suppose.
Jingle's done this before, just calling someone out based on their name being strange or the icon next to their name. The early posts are just random crap to get people talking. His post about lurkers is suspicious, but if we let people lurk, there's going to be some scum in the pile.
Throwing an early lynch at lurkers forces them to be more active, so there is more chance at scumslips instead of nothing to go on at all for those players. They all look scummy when they say and do nothing. The last couple games I've played/obs'd have been riddled with people being replaced and lurking and it completely screws with town's ability to make consistent reads. However, most of those games were majority lynch so the lurker problem had a much bigger impact.
If we have scum reads we should definitely push them. I don't think a lynch lurker mentality is that beneficial to town given our voting system. Any lurking scum can jump on any suspicion very easily and not look any worse than the next lurker that just follows the pack. Good scum reads will force them out of the woodwork to cast suspicion on someone else.
And I'm still not casting a vote as we're still waiting on 4 players to make a post and for Evulrabbitz and zen_man to do something relevant. The way rabbitz has disappeared concerns me as he ducked out just as we started getting to the not completely useless posts.
+ Show Spoiler [game3] +
On August 03 2012 23:45 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'd rather have an answer quite quick than giving VE some time to write something up
...Jingle, you can read just fine.
All you have done so far is provide a series of one-liners that are non-committal and dismissive towards prplhz's accusations of your actions thus far. He looks significantly more "town than town can be" by comparison, since he's actively pressuring and trying to get discussion out of you.
He asks precisely WHY do you not like wbg, and you throw it back in his face, and expect that to look townie? You kiddin me?
##Vote: Glasse
(I still think we should post our votes in this thread for filter/quoting purposes...just don't pull any fake vote shenanigans plz)
I'd rather have an answer quite quick than giving VE some time to write something up
...Jingle, you can read just fine.
All you have done so far is provide a series of one-liners that are non-committal and dismissive towards prplhz's accusations of your actions thus far. He looks significantly more "town than town can be" by comparison, since he's actively pressuring and trying to get discussion out of you.
He asks precisely WHY do you not like wbg, and you throw it back in his face, and expect that to look townie? You kiddin me?
##Vote: Glasse
(I still think we should post our votes in this thread for filter/quoting purposes...just don't pull any fake vote shenanigans plz)
On August 04 2012 08:58 Hopeless1der wrote:
At a quick once over, Zeph is looking scummiest right now, but Hier just broke my sarcasm meter. While I'm fixing it I'll be looking more closely at Zeph within the next couple hours.
Meanwhile,
##Unvote: Glasse
Sounded like a straightforward read of wbg, considering wbg just shat all over the "mason claim" discussion. I don't like that he jumped to the conclusion that bugs is scum, but at least something to back it up, so Glasse checks out so far.
EBP (Edit before post) and oh crap we already lost a townie.
Role of Zorkmid is Townie or 'unknown'? Its green so I assume townie, but I'd like to confirm.
At a quick once over, Zeph is looking scummiest right now, but Hier just broke my sarcasm meter. While I'm fixing it I'll be looking more closely at Zeph within the next couple hours.
Meanwhile,
##Unvote: Glasse
Sounded like a straightforward read of wbg, considering wbg just shat all over the "mason claim" discussion. I don't like that he jumped to the conclusion that bugs is scum, but at least something to back it up, so Glasse checks out so far.
EBP (Edit before post) and oh crap we already lost a townie.
Role of Zorkmid is Townie or 'unknown'? Its green so I assume townie, but I'd like to confirm.
On August 08 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:
I sincerely apologize for my lack of activity. In hindsight I should have requested a replacement as my co-worker went on vacation and I've been working stupid amounts of overtime to make up for it. I will be more active from tonight going forward (still at work right now).
My reads today are that between Erandorr, VE and Bugs, there is likely to be scum and I think that it's Erandorr right now.
The case against bugs is largely his meta, which I am not familiar with. His mason debacle could go either way, his rage as well. All WIFOM and perhaps "Anti-Town" but NOT the same thing as "Scummy" to me. More trolling than anything else, and look what happened to master troll Grush. This is not enough for me to want to vote him.
VE is (or was) vehemently against voting bugs:+ Show Spoiler +
With people meta'ing, hes apparently suspicious due to his lack of activity, which he says is due to his mason role, and sounds plausible to me.
His case against Erandorr makes much more sense to me than Eran's defense of it. Eran tried to accuse VE of neglecting questions and received a prompt response, and Erandorr takes it out of turn to dispute it.
+ Show Spoiler +
The main point is he paraphrased VE in the nested quote's "I don't give a fuck" sentiment when VE was specifically referring to the MASON stuff. This occured AFTER the second quoted post, which was followed by:
Wasn't the mason thing the whole reason Eran thought bugs was scummy at the start? (Or "anti-town")
Erandorr's attempt to pass off VE's case as contradictory is incredibly scummy to me, and he immediately says "I am out", leaving no opportunity to grill him further. Based on this interaction, I find VE to be townie.
##Vote: Erandorr
I sincerely apologize for my lack of activity. In hindsight I should have requested a replacement as my co-worker went on vacation and I've been working stupid amounts of overtime to make up for it. I will be more active from tonight going forward (still at work right now).
My reads today are that between Erandorr, VE and Bugs, there is likely to be scum and I think that it's Erandorr right now.
The case against bugs is largely his meta, which I am not familiar with. His mason debacle could go either way, his rage as well. All WIFOM and perhaps "Anti-Town" but NOT the same thing as "Scummy" to me. More trolling than anything else, and look what happened to master troll Grush. This is not enough for me to want to vote him.
VE is (or was) vehemently against voting bugs:+ Show Spoiler +
On August 05 2012 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, everyone STOP.
This lynch on WBG is not happening.
Having PMed with him, I'm NOT of the opinion that he's scum and I think we should focus on other, actually scummy candidates. You guys are WIFOMing this lynch to shit.
I fully support a talis lynch upon rereading. He literally asked for a NAMECLAIM from everyone guys. LITERALLY.
##Vote: talismania
I think Bugs is town. I don't want to lynch him. slOosh, you in particular I want to hear more reasoning from. Your only gripe with him seems to be his read on prplhz - so...because you disagree with his read he's scum? Really?
I don't like a grush lynch today either - it feels like a copout. But I totally can see a town Bugs wanting to lynch grush today. Grush was a key factor in the scum victory in LVI, for the same shit he's exhibiting now. However, I agree that we should give our vigs a chance to take care of him. We should be aiming for people we specifically think are scum, and for me that's not wherebugsgo.
Okay, everyone STOP.
This lynch on WBG is not happening.
Having PMed with him, I'm NOT of the opinion that he's scum and I think we should focus on other, actually scummy candidates. You guys are WIFOMing this lynch to shit.
I fully support a talis lynch upon rereading. He literally asked for a NAMECLAIM from everyone guys. LITERALLY.
##Vote: talismania
I think Bugs is town. I don't want to lynch him. slOosh, you in particular I want to hear more reasoning from. Your only gripe with him seems to be his read on prplhz - so...because you disagree with his read he's scum? Really?
I don't like a grush lynch today either - it feels like a copout. But I totally can see a town Bugs wanting to lynch grush today. Grush was a key factor in the scum victory in LVI, for the same shit he's exhibiting now. However, I agree that we should give our vigs a chance to take care of him. We should be aiming for people we specifically think are scum, and for me that's not wherebugsgo.
With people meta'ing, hes apparently suspicious due to his lack of activity, which he says is due to his mason role, and sounds plausible to me.
His case against Erandorr makes much more sense to me than Eran's defense of it. Eran tried to accuse VE of neglecting questions and received a prompt response, and Erandorr takes it out of turn to dispute it.
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 07 2012 10:48 Erandorr wrote:
VE, wtf.
Can you please look at those quotes in context?
1st quote: I respond to who seem to think that the raging started with me, not him
2nd : I think his rage is was a tool to dodge any questions he did not want to answer.
3rd: is a response to that guy accusing me of being as guilty of raging as wbg, and using it as part of a case vs me. its not me whining, its me clarifying something someone is not willing to see.
4th: the same, broodking accuses me of starting the shitstorm so once again I try to use "facts"
Liar.
About the "wifom"
I think you are scum at this point. If you are town then you are one of the biggest morons I have ever seen called "good" at mafia.
I also think you probably are scum with WBG, at least I hope you are
WBG
VE
Jingles
Broodking
Some other random lurker (hassy,bio...? )
##Vote wbg
I am out, good luck with the game.
VE, wtf.
Can you please look at those quotes in context?
1st quote: I respond to who seem to think that the raging started with me, not him
2nd : I think his rage is was a tool to dodge any questions he did not want to answer.
3rd: is a response to that guy accusing me of being as guilty of raging as wbg, and using it as part of a case vs me. its not me whining, its me clarifying something someone is not willing to see.
4th: the same, broodking accuses me of starting the shitstorm so once again I try to use "facts"
Liar.
About the "wifom"
I think you are scum at this point. If you are town then you are one of the biggest morons I have ever seen called "good" at mafia.
I also think you probably are scum with WBG, at least I hope you are
WBG
VE
Jingles
Broodking
Some other random lurker (hassy,bio...? )
##Vote wbg
I am out, good luck with the game.
The main point is he paraphrased VE in the nested quote's "I don't give a fuck" sentiment when VE was specifically referring to the MASON stuff. This occured AFTER the second quoted post, which was followed by:
Wasn't the mason thing the whole reason Eran thought bugs was scummy at the start? (Or "anti-town")
Erandorr's attempt to pass off VE's case as contradictory is incredibly scummy to me, and he immediately says "I am out", leaving no opportunity to grill him further. Based on this interaction, I find VE to be townie.
##Vote: Erandorr
On August 09 2012 02:32 Hopeless1der wrote:
I don't know anything about the NK's. I was making an inference based on the situation you described with him coming up with a vig shot on you. If you were to somehow get shot tonight, you said you suspect VE of having a hand in it, though you can't understand how thats possible if he's a mason. You being shot (by him) would assume hes scum.
My comment about the lynch tomorrow was that in no way does you flipping town confirm him as scum. I'm still of the opinion that at least one of VE-Bugs-Eran is scum, and since eran has flipped town my choices there are down to two.
I don't know anything about the NK's. I was making an inference based on the situation you described with him coming up with a vig shot on you. If you were to somehow get shot tonight, you said you suspect VE of having a hand in it, though you can't understand how thats possible if he's a mason. You being shot (by him) would assume hes scum.
My comment about the lynch tomorrow was that in no way does you flipping town confirm him as scum. I'm still of the opinion that at least one of VE-Bugs-Eran is scum, and since eran has flipped town my choices there are down to two.
+ Show Spoiler [game4] +
On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:
Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite:
"We're lynching you anyway"
Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one:
As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious.
Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement.
Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Dat Over-reaction:
And then of course slo0sh himself points out:
Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted.
Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post:
I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum.
##Vote: Forumite
+ Show Spoiler +
Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite:
"We're lynching you anyway"
Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one:
As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious.
Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement.
Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Dat Over-reaction:
And then of course slo0sh himself points out:
Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted.
Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post:
I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum.
##Vote: Forumite
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 05 2012 03:19 Hopeless1der wrote:
Because it's not necessarily a mistake at that point, its just a fake-claim. It kind of makes sense for an assa to do it, but not for a blue because scum have no way to track visits. We've since learned that Nosy Neighbors are not self-aware. Mistake or not, the fakeclaim was made by MATTCHEW. Not some random player, but specifically the one that Toad referred to and referred to again when you continued to poke at him.
And Rewok,
That's a stupid way to look at things. Do you think Ottoxlol is legitimately trying to save Matt or just being a jerk because he won't read.
Ninja'd by Toad. Oh well.
Because it's not necessarily a mistake at that point, its just a fake-claim. It kind of makes sense for an assa to do it, but not for a blue because scum have no way to track visits. We've since learned that Nosy Neighbors are not self-aware. Mistake or not, the fakeclaim was made by MATTCHEW. Not some random player, but specifically the one that Toad referred to and referred to again when you continued to poke at him.
And Rewok,
That's a stupid way to look at things. Do you think Ottoxlol is legitimately trying to save Matt or just being a jerk because he won't read.
Ninja'd by Toad. Oh well.
On September 07 2012 01:54 Hopeless1der wrote:
In my filter, I have this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
Followed by my case on Forumite in this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
I was not convinced by BC's argument of "You're Lying, You're Scum" and didn't piece together the fact that I would need to PM the mods to confirm the miller self-awareness debacle. That was really stupid on my part but thankfully Palmar dealt with it for us.
The thread was in a shitty place and I wanted to focus on something other than just calling people liars. I wasn't necessarily attacking BC, I just wanted him to stop strong-arming the thread and actually put together a coherent thought towards HOW he knew he was right. His argument to me was "I'm right, suck it bitch" and I found that infuriating. (I completely understand why he did it after the fact, fear of modkillage and whatnot). In an effort to get away from that, I made a case on someone I found scummy and put it forth to try to get some other discussion going.
Once Palmar confirmed Mattchew's lie, I was 100% behind his lynch and didn't want to waste time being questioned about why. Nor did anyone bring it up, as you pointed out.
The reason why I didn't vote for forumite is...I forgot about the voting thread; Whoops?
The reason I pointed out the fact I didn't vote for forumite is...I didn't vote for forumite and wanted to be as transparent as possible about what I'd done. I didn't mean to 'fakevote' but it happened and I wanted to make it clear what my intentions were, so I explicitly unvoted Forumite in order to Vote Mattchew.
In regards to point (2)
I don't seem happy? What the fuck is this statement? How do you determine happiness based on my voteswitch to a confirmed liar? Why should I have to explain the reasoning when its in the thread for the past however many pages ever since BC knew Mattchew was lying. If anything, this would have been me HARD bussing Matt, not reluctantly as you've claimed stated.
I will concede that the "provider of information" posts are scummy. It also turns out I -(think)- I was wrong in my discussion with BC(2), I'm sure that's going to make me scum for pushing misinformation. My response to Shady(1) especially looks bad given the length of my filter. Not much I can do to change that now.
The waffley statement was me asserting that while I don't think Miltonkram was 'lying' (which you snipped out of the quote btw), I still think he was scummy because his case was complete shite relative to the pace of the thread when he made it.
Ergo I think Milton is scum. Is that less waffley?
Why does Matt flipping red imply that I'm red as well? Why can't I be continuing to hunt scum? I still think Forumite is scum. My case was not an effort to divert the thread, it was an attempt to focus it. I wasn't around to do so, and feel free to call me scum for not following through before, but wait and see, you'll run out of steam on that front in a moment.
In my filter, I have this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 04 2012 12:52 Hopeless1der wrote:
Check out this post on page 8. It was never answered in thread and it has been edited. In addition, the set-up appears to have been tweaked:
(page 9, again it's been edited)
Moral of the story is we don't know and BC needs to stop bullshitting us if he does in fact know something that the rest of us seem to have missed.
Check out this post on page 8. It was never answered in thread and it has been edited. In addition, the set-up appears to have been tweaked:
(page 9, again it's been edited)
Moral of the story is we don't know and BC needs to stop bullshitting us if he does in fact know something that the rest of us seem to have missed.
Followed by my case on Forumite in this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:
Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite:
"We're lynching you anyway"
Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one:
As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious.
Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement.
Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Dat Over-reaction:
And then of course slo0sh himself points out:
Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted.
Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post:
I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum.
##Vote: Forumite
+ Show Spoiler +
Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite:
"We're lynching you anyway"
Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one:
As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious.
Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement.
Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Dat Over-reaction:
And then of course slo0sh himself points out:
Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted.
Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post:
I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum.
##Vote: Forumite
+ Show Spoiler +
I was not convinced by BC's argument of "You're Lying, You're Scum" and didn't piece together the fact that I would need to PM the mods to confirm the miller self-awareness debacle. That was really stupid on my part but thankfully Palmar dealt with it for us.
The thread was in a shitty place and I wanted to focus on something other than just calling people liars. I wasn't necessarily attacking BC, I just wanted him to stop strong-arming the thread and actually put together a coherent thought towards HOW he knew he was right. His argument to me was "I'm right, suck it bitch" and I found that infuriating. (I completely understand why he did it after the fact, fear of modkillage and whatnot). In an effort to get away from that, I made a case on someone I found scummy and put it forth to try to get some other discussion going.
Once Palmar confirmed Mattchew's lie, I was 100% behind his lynch and didn't want to waste time being questioned about why. Nor did anyone bring it up, as you pointed out.
The reason why I didn't vote for forumite is...I forgot about the voting thread; Whoops?
The reason I pointed out the fact I didn't vote for forumite is...I didn't vote for forumite and wanted to be as transparent as possible about what I'd done. I didn't mean to 'fakevote' but it happened and I wanted to make it clear what my intentions were, so I explicitly unvoted Forumite in order to Vote Mattchew.
In regards to point (2)
I don't seem happy? What the fuck is this statement? How do you determine happiness based on my voteswitch to a confirmed liar? Why should I have to explain the reasoning when its in the thread for the past however many pages ever since BC knew Mattchew was lying. If anything, this would have been me HARD bussing Matt, not reluctantly as you've claimed stated.
I will concede that the "provider of information" posts are scummy. It also turns out I -(think)- I was wrong in my discussion with BC(2), I'm sure that's going to make me scum for pushing misinformation. My response to Shady(1) especially looks bad given the length of my filter. Not much I can do to change that now.
The waffley statement was me asserting that while I don't think Miltonkram was 'lying' (which you snipped out of the quote btw), I still think he was scummy because his case was complete shite relative to the pace of the thread when he made it.
Ergo I think Milton is scum. Is that less waffley?
Why does Matt flipping red imply that I'm red as well? Why can't I be continuing to hunt scum? I still think Forumite is scum. My case was not an effort to divert the thread, it was an attempt to focus it. I wasn't around to do so, and feel free to call me scum for not following through before, but wait and see, you'll run out of steam on that front in a moment.
##unvote
##vote Hopeless1der
##Unvote
##Vote: hopeless1der
