|
On October 25 2012 15:28 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:09 oogieogie wrote:On October 25 2012 13:39 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On October 25 2012 11:57 Dubsy wrote:On October 25 2012 11:45 RockIronrod wrote:
Watching this VOD is kind of sad.
Regardless of your opinion on IdrA/Incontrol vs Destiny or League, the dick waving, "I'm louder than you so I'm right" arguments, the petty insults and literally everything that comes out of Wheat's mouth... it paints a depressing picture of the community. Yeah its so hard to watch... it's ridiculous. And Wheat yelling at Destiny is so uncool. He's saying streams are getting stronger, despite the fact SC2 streams are CLEARLY getting weaker, but because everyone is watching Dota2 and LoL it's great news for SC. What a clown. E: not to say Destiny is a saint. But he was making some legit points and it was just team EG teaming up on him and just yelling stupid shit. That's not what he said at all. It's an easy point to misunderstand, and I can see why you (and Destiny) didn't get it, but that's not what he said. Generally, stream viewership is up. The difference is that there are many, many more options to choose from. Destiny brought up Idra's stream as an example; he used to regularly hit 10,000+ and now struggles for 5,000. That's not because viewership has gone down; it's because in the last 18 months a whole bunch of other people have started streaming as well. When Greg was pushing 20,000 people, a lot of really big names, including Huk, Stephano and possibly Grubby weren't streaming. That's to say nothing of the occasional Korean pro who'll stream a few hours every month; HerO, DRG and others. Plus, there weren't the weekly and daily events, and the long season tournaments; there's just about always two of IPL, NASL and EGMCSL running. Plus there are shows; the big ones are the ITGs and Day9 Dailies, but there's also ChanMan, the Executives, the mappers show and more. And then there are the other games. Actually, in Dota 2 you can sorta see the effect Wheat is talking about as well. It used to be that the only regular Dota 2 streamer was Demon. Now, Fear, Jeyo, Merlini, Maelk and Dendi stream occasionally to regularly, plus Purge, Ayesee and Draskyll, plus tournament matches. You've even got Catz playing Dota 2 with drewbie and PainUser. So what happens is that viewership, while generally rising, becomes more diffuse. The variety and number of streams has exploded. If I wanted to watch high-level Zerg play, my only choice in 2010-early 2011 was Idra, but now there's a lot of others to choose from. We've gone from having one stream with 10,000 viewers to ten with 1,0000. It sucks for that one guy, but everyone else is doing better. Even within SC2, numbers as a whole are going up, but spread across a wider base. See I would say this is completely wrong. I will take SC2 for a example since it seems to probably best fit the point. When Idra used to stream he did get 10k+ viewers usually, but it was more rare while now he does struggle for 5k. The thing is that even if you can watch some masters or GM zerg instead most people will most likely still be going for Idra since big name/team/rage etc. The streams for SC2 have probably been going downhill because I think even the last time Stephano streamed he didn't get 10k+ viewers when he usually did awhile ago. Viewers in general for SC2 seem to be steadily going down, and you can even notice it in destiny streams when he gets like 2.5k viewers max instead of like 4k+. While there is more people it just doesn't equal out like Idra getting 10k back then vs Idra now getting 5k + violet getting 2k etc. The big name streamers also arn't streaming all the time so sometimes even when idra was getting no competition today I think he got like 5.6k viewers max, but i could be wrong. This could just be because we are going to be getting into HOTS so viewership might come back up, but otherwise I wouldn't say streaming now is as popular as awhile ago for SC2. kinda repeated myself but meh I'm not going to argue that a big part of the declining numbers for guys like IdrA isn't in large part due to some decreased increased in SC2, the game is 2 years old now and that was always going to happen. With him specifically though, I think a part of it may also be that he isn't quite at the same level as he was at before. For a while, he was THE American SC2 player and a high level GSL player. He was the best stream you could possibly watch if you wanted to watch Zerg. Now he's not quite there, and there are more options of streams to watch. I may be wrong about this, but it seems like the daily league content is getting as many views as it ever has, if not more. NASL seems to have ~4.5k for live shows and ~1-2k for replays. I seem to remember them averaging around 2k back in season 1 and 2 after the initial wave of excitement faded. A good dreamhack was pulling in around ~40-60k viewers, which is still around where they are getting.
NASL S1 started with them having like 20k+ viewers, but then having it decline because of huge problems. NASL started with huge hype, but it was a huge let down till about now @ S3/4. There was a dreamhack pulling in 80k that was in a giant tent with day9 there..I think that was dreamhack winter idk. You can't really compare this dreamhack though since it was missing a lot of big players like stephano etc. I do agree with how Idra used to be one of the best zergs, but has now really faded so maybe that is contributing to his falling stream numbers.
|
On October 25 2012 15:30 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:21 VanGarde wrote:On October 25 2012 15:09 oogieogie wrote:On October 25 2012 13:39 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On October 25 2012 11:57 Dubsy wrote:On October 25 2012 11:45 RockIronrod wrote:
Watching this VOD is kind of sad.
Regardless of your opinion on IdrA/Incontrol vs Destiny or League, the dick waving, "I'm louder than you so I'm right" arguments, the petty insults and literally everything that comes out of Wheat's mouth... it paints a depressing picture of the community. Yeah its so hard to watch... it's ridiculous. And Wheat yelling at Destiny is so uncool. He's saying streams are getting stronger, despite the fact SC2 streams are CLEARLY getting weaker, but because everyone is watching Dota2 and LoL it's great news for SC. What a clown. E: not to say Destiny is a saint. But he was making some legit points and it was just team EG teaming up on him and just yelling stupid shit. That's not what he said at all. It's an easy point to misunderstand, and I can see why you (and Destiny) didn't get it, but that's not what he said. Generally, stream viewership is up. The difference is that there are many, many more options to choose from. Destiny brought up Idra's stream as an example; he used to regularly hit 10,000+ and now struggles for 5,000. That's not because viewership has gone down; it's because in the last 18 months a whole bunch of other people have started streaming as well. When Greg was pushing 20,000 people, a lot of really big names, including Huk, Stephano and possibly Grubby weren't streaming. That's to say nothing of the occasional Korean pro who'll stream a few hours every month; HerO, DRG and others. Plus, there weren't the weekly and daily events, and the long season tournaments; there's just about always two of IPL, NASL and EGMCSL running. Plus there are shows; the big ones are the ITGs and Day9 Dailies, but there's also ChanMan, the Executives, the mappers show and more. And then there are the other games. Actually, in Dota 2 you can sorta see the effect Wheat is talking about as well. It used to be that the only regular Dota 2 streamer was Demon. Now, Fear, Jeyo, Merlini, Maelk and Dendi stream occasionally to regularly, plus Purge, Ayesee and Draskyll, plus tournament matches. You've even got Catz playing Dota 2 with drewbie and PainUser. So what happens is that viewership, while generally rising, becomes more diffuse. The variety and number of streams has exploded. If I wanted to watch high-level Zerg play, my only choice in 2010-early 2011 was Idra, but now there's a lot of others to choose from. We've gone from having one stream with 10,000 viewers to ten with 1,0000. It sucks for that one guy, but everyone else is doing better. Even within SC2, numbers as a whole are going up, but spread across a wider base. See I would say this is completely wrong. I will take SC2 for a example since it seems to probably best fit the point. When Idra used to stream he did get 10k+ viewers usually, but it was more rare while now he does struggle for 5k. The thing is that even if you can watch some masters or GM zerg instead most people will most likely still be going for Idra since big name/team/rage etc. The streams for SC2 have probably been going downhill because I think even the last time Stephano streamed he didn't get 10k+ viewers when he usually did awhile ago. Viewers in general for SC2 seem to be steadily going down, and you can even notice it in destiny streams when he gets like 2.5k viewers max instead of like 4k+. While there is more people it just doesn't equal out like Idra getting 10k back then vs Idra now getting 5k + violet getting 2k etc. The big name streamers also arn't streaming all the time so sometimes even when idra was getting no competition today I think he got like 5.6k viewers max, but i could be wrong. This could just be because we are going to be getting into HOTS so viewership might come back up, but otherwise I wouldn't say streaming now is as popular as awhile ago for SC2. kinda repeated myself but meh The rational conclusion to watching personal stream views going down would be to take that for what it is, personal stream views are going down. It is a stretch to assume that the reason for that is that people are not enjoying the game. It is even more of a stretch when you realize that overall tournament views are stable or going up. So what does it mean then? Partly the explosion in streaming, which is what wheat responded. Because more people are streaming EVERYTHING, there are less views to go around. Maybe people used to watch IdrA for 5 hours in a row back when there was less streaming, now the same person might only watch a game, then watch another game, then watch a speedrun etc etc. But probably just as big a part is that streaming is just not that interesting when we have so many tournaments running, and there are so many people streaming. I used to watch a lot of streams but to be honest it gets really boring to watch streams in the long run because it is just the game I am already playing. Back when the game was new it was all so exciting that I could just watch streams forever but now I rather just watch a tournament where I get much more out of the experience, and I watch streams when I want to learn builds and play styles to use in my own play. Watching the same guy play 1v1 with music on is not really that interesting. Keep in mind some streams go in the opposite direction. DeMusliM has grown his stream immensely. Why is that? Probably because he is adding more to his stream, he comments everything he does while he plays, he gives advice and goes back to review replays and explain why he won or lost. I did deal with this a little in my post, but I will say it again. Idra getting 10k viewers awhile back, and getting 5k now while yes there is more streams to watch with pro players that isn't the only reason. Idra I think today was streaming with no real other big names, and he still got like 5.6k max while he would have probably broke 10k if it was just himself awhile back. The tournaments that go on are just stabalized with viewers is another reason that we could just be going downhill instead of going up like we usually were.
All you are doing is keep repeating that IdrA used to have 10k viewers, now he doesn't. That might be true, the problem arises when you try to just assert reasons for why that is. There are so many simpler and more rational reasons for why he has less viewers today that does NOT involve the game actually failing. Again if the problem was with the game we would expect to see tournament views dropping at the same rate as stream views which they are not. I don't know of anyone who watches much streams anymore, everyone I know who like me watched a lot of streams before don't watch streams so much because it is not so interesting to watch a single player play from his pov. Not because people are tired with the game, they are still watching just as much sc2, they are just watching tournaments or playing the game rather than watching streams. Most streams had their real peaks when there were less tournaments, and streaming was much newer and exciting.
If you honestly think that sc2 views were going to keep growing infinitely without any changes in trends or without ever plateauing then views being stagnant is not not sc2 failing, it is just your unrealistic expectation being disillusioned.
|
omg it was like wheat took a xanax in that last LO3
LOOK AT WHAT YOU GUYS DID! YOU KILLED WHEAT'S PASSION AND BY PROXY KILLED E-SPORTS!
no but srsly i'm glad this thread is finally getting away from discussing social etiquette, because out of everything that is hurting esports social etiquette should take a backseat to whatever you guise are discussing now.
|
On October 25 2012 15:40 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 15:30 oogieogie wrote:On October 25 2012 15:21 VanGarde wrote:On October 25 2012 15:09 oogieogie wrote:On October 25 2012 13:39 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On October 25 2012 11:57 Dubsy wrote:On October 25 2012 11:45 RockIronrod wrote:
Watching this VOD is kind of sad.
Regardless of your opinion on IdrA/Incontrol vs Destiny or League, the dick waving, "I'm louder than you so I'm right" arguments, the petty insults and literally everything that comes out of Wheat's mouth... it paints a depressing picture of the community. Yeah its so hard to watch... it's ridiculous. And Wheat yelling at Destiny is so uncool. He's saying streams are getting stronger, despite the fact SC2 streams are CLEARLY getting weaker, but because everyone is watching Dota2 and LoL it's great news for SC. What a clown. E: not to say Destiny is a saint. But he was making some legit points and it was just team EG teaming up on him and just yelling stupid shit. That's not what he said at all. It's an easy point to misunderstand, and I can see why you (and Destiny) didn't get it, but that's not what he said. Generally, stream viewership is up. The difference is that there are many, many more options to choose from. Destiny brought up Idra's stream as an example; he used to regularly hit 10,000+ and now struggles for 5,000. That's not because viewership has gone down; it's because in the last 18 months a whole bunch of other people have started streaming as well. When Greg was pushing 20,000 people, a lot of really big names, including Huk, Stephano and possibly Grubby weren't streaming. That's to say nothing of the occasional Korean pro who'll stream a few hours every month; HerO, DRG and others. Plus, there weren't the weekly and daily events, and the long season tournaments; there's just about always two of IPL, NASL and EGMCSL running. Plus there are shows; the big ones are the ITGs and Day9 Dailies, but there's also ChanMan, the Executives, the mappers show and more. And then there are the other games. Actually, in Dota 2 you can sorta see the effect Wheat is talking about as well. It used to be that the only regular Dota 2 streamer was Demon. Now, Fear, Jeyo, Merlini, Maelk and Dendi stream occasionally to regularly, plus Purge, Ayesee and Draskyll, plus tournament matches. You've even got Catz playing Dota 2 with drewbie and PainUser. So what happens is that viewership, while generally rising, becomes more diffuse. The variety and number of streams has exploded. If I wanted to watch high-level Zerg play, my only choice in 2010-early 2011 was Idra, but now there's a lot of others to choose from. We've gone from having one stream with 10,000 viewers to ten with 1,0000. It sucks for that one guy, but everyone else is doing better. Even within SC2, numbers as a whole are going up, but spread across a wider base. See I would say this is completely wrong. I will take SC2 for a example since it seems to probably best fit the point. When Idra used to stream he did get 10k+ viewers usually, but it was more rare while now he does struggle for 5k. The thing is that even if you can watch some masters or GM zerg instead most people will most likely still be going for Idra since big name/team/rage etc. The streams for SC2 have probably been going downhill because I think even the last time Stephano streamed he didn't get 10k+ viewers when he usually did awhile ago. Viewers in general for SC2 seem to be steadily going down, and you can even notice it in destiny streams when he gets like 2.5k viewers max instead of like 4k+. While there is more people it just doesn't equal out like Idra getting 10k back then vs Idra now getting 5k + violet getting 2k etc. The big name streamers also arn't streaming all the time so sometimes even when idra was getting no competition today I think he got like 5.6k viewers max, but i could be wrong. This could just be because we are going to be getting into HOTS so viewership might come back up, but otherwise I wouldn't say streaming now is as popular as awhile ago for SC2. kinda repeated myself but meh The rational conclusion to watching personal stream views going down would be to take that for what it is, personal stream views are going down. It is a stretch to assume that the reason for that is that people are not enjoying the game. It is even more of a stretch when you realize that overall tournament views are stable or going up. So what does it mean then? Partly the explosion in streaming, which is what wheat responded. Because more people are streaming EVERYTHING, there are less views to go around. Maybe people used to watch IdrA for 5 hours in a row back when there was less streaming, now the same person might only watch a game, then watch another game, then watch a speedrun etc etc. But probably just as big a part is that streaming is just not that interesting when we have so many tournaments running, and there are so many people streaming. I used to watch a lot of streams but to be honest it gets really boring to watch streams in the long run because it is just the game I am already playing. Back when the game was new it was all so exciting that I could just watch streams forever but now I rather just watch a tournament where I get much more out of the experience, and I watch streams when I want to learn builds and play styles to use in my own play. Watching the same guy play 1v1 with music on is not really that interesting. Keep in mind some streams go in the opposite direction. DeMusliM has grown his stream immensely. Why is that? Probably because he is adding more to his stream, he comments everything he does while he plays, he gives advice and goes back to review replays and explain why he won or lost. I did deal with this a little in my post, but I will say it again. Idra getting 10k viewers awhile back, and getting 5k now while yes there is more streams to watch with pro players that isn't the only reason. Idra I think today was streaming with no real other big names, and he still got like 5.6k max while he would have probably broke 10k if it was just himself awhile back. The tournaments that go on are just stabalized with viewers is another reason that we could just be going downhill instead of going up like we usually were. All you are doing is keep repeating that IdrA used to have 10k viewers, now he doesn't. That might be true, the problem arises when you try to just assert reasons for why that is. There are so many simpler and more rational reasons for why he has less viewers today that does NOT involve the game actually failing. Again if the problem was with the game we would expect to see tournament views dropping at the same rate as stream views which they are not. I don't know of anyone who watches much streams anymore, everyone I know who like me watched a lot of streams before don't watch streams so much because it is not so interesting to watch a single player play from his pov. Not because people are tired with the game, they are still watching just as much sc2, they are just watching tournaments or playing the game rather than watching streams. Most streams had their real peaks when there were less tournaments, and streaming was much newer and exciting. If you honestly think that sc2 views were going to keep growing infinitely without any changes in trends or without ever plateauing then views being stagnant is not not sc2 failing, it is just your unrealistic expectation being disillusioned.
I used Idra as a example because he is the best one to use since he has been streaming for a long time. Also tournament viewers stabalizing just means that we arn't growing, and that we are going into a decline. I would not be surprised that a lot of people are going into hots with low expectations of the new/lacking of units, and nothing changing BL/infestor/terran etc. Just because you don't watch as much streams doesn't mean everyone does. I still watch as much streams, but not as much tournaments since they aren't as interesting if they aren't live or have big names, and I don't watch GSL much since it is way to late for me. It is pretty easy to say that Idra/destiny/common streamers having less viewers means we arn't as strong as before, but of course growth doesn't last forever. Also no way in hell are you/friends or me a big enough sample size for watching streams because they arrn't as interesting etc.No way are people playing the game more when we have ladder anxiety/going into a new expansion so people are waiting on that. The last thing is I am saying that the loss of viewers from Idra/stephano/destiny doesn't equal the growth of other people that stream.
The bold is just being stupid. I never even mentioned that I expected SC2 would grow forever, but that SC2 is just in a decline atm with no real hype going into HOTS. My expectation isn't that I expected SC2 to grow forever at all so stop trying to put words into my mouth.
Also all you can do is say your opinion on why Idras viewers are worse which could be hes not as top caliber or not as popular stream or sc2 stream viewership is getting lower etc. etc.
|
On October 25 2012 11:59 IdrA wrote:
the fact that theres actually people saying im too light on blizzard or that im happy/complacent with what theyre doing is the most damning proof ive ever seen that people will say anything to be obstinate assholes.
I love you IdrA. A lot of the people in this thread have no idea what the hell they're talking about.
|
Yesterday I watched IdrA with commentary and I really enjoyed it. It was a really good stream/show. I think that if he does that a bit more often he can get back to 10k viewers. I would like to see the numbers for the GSL though, I think SCII is really declining atm. But maybe the core viewers will stay around.
|
On October 25 2012 18:18 Koshi wrote:
Yesterday I watched IdrA with commentary and I really enjoyed it. It was a really good stream/show. I think that if he does that a bit more often he can get back to 10k viewers. I would like to see the numbers for the GSL though, I think SCII is really declining atm. But maybe the core viewers will stay around.
I agree. On ITG they talked about doing things themselves to make the scene better, and IdrA is definitely doing that by streaming with commentary again.
|
My god, I just went to reddit and saw hundreds of total morons shitting all over pillars of our community based on things they actually didn't say or imply and it depressed the hell out of me. And the worst part is you can't correct them because you just get downvoted to shit and only the idiots remain. Reddit is literally killing Starcraft 2 more than any of the problems with the game or bnet right now..
|
On October 25 2012 19:24 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
My god, I just went to reddit and saw hundreds of total morons shitting all over pillars of our community based on things they actually didn't say or imply and it depressed the hell out of me. And the worst part is you can't correct them because you just get downvoted to shit and only the idiots remain. Reddit is literally killing Starcraft 2 more than any of the problems with the game or bnet right now..
Yeah, I'll be honest... I don't really like Team Liquid that much as a community, some of the time. Still, it's just worlds ahead of the Reddit SC2 community. TL runs a much tighter ship and people here are far less hysteric and extreme. I think this is largely due to differences in moderation and the infrastructure of up/downvotes. I really wish r/Starcraft was more self-aware.
|
On October 25 2012 20:13 Sideburn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 19:24 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
My god, I just went to reddit and saw hundreds of total morons shitting all over pillars of our community based on things they actually didn't say or imply and it depressed the hell out of me. And the worst part is you can't correct them because you just get downvoted to shit and only the idiots remain. Reddit is literally killing Starcraft 2 more than any of the problems with the game or bnet right now.. Yeah, I'll be honest... I don't really like Team Liquid that much as a community, some of the time. Still, it's just worlds ahead of the Reddit SC2 community. TL runs a much tighter ship and people here are far less hysteric and extreme. I think this is largely due to differences in moderation and the infrastructure of up/downvotes. I really wish r/Starcraft was more self-aware.
Yeah unfortunately reddit with the karma system encourages hivemind mentality and that's always a bad thing :/
|
On October 25 2012 15:31 jcc wrote:
Also the LoL player base isn't like 15 million, its well over 65 million according to their recent stats released after the S2 championships.
but they have 11 millions active players.
|
last podcast:
the only one making sense is Destiny
(Idra was somewhat right inbetween)
djWheat and others were ignorant.
EDIT: I watched it until 1:29:00.
You know when person dies, agony is going on in last seconds. djWheat screaming to mic felt like it was agony of SC2. So unprofessional and pathetic.
|
Can't wait for next Tuesday's show when they will make fun of this thread ^^
|
On October 25 2012 21:18 bokeevboke wrote:
last podcast:
the only one making sense is Destiny
(Idra was somewhat right inbetween)
djWheat and others were ignorant.
ummmm everybody in the last podcast made sense, nobody was ignorant.
Destiny and the ITG crew were arguing the EXACT SAME THING, That Starcraft 2 is falling behind in the Esports race and blizzards lack of actions to address these key issues is a major contributor.
Both sides and all of us agree on that, where they differ is their approach. Destiny is on one end of the spectrum claiming that the game will die unless blizzard does X, Y and Z. ITG is on the other end saying that we've wanted these changes since the game launched but it's been 2 years we've been waiting so it's not worth all the drama all of a sudden.
I agree with ITG on this; push blizzard to make SC2 the best it can be WITHOUT the torches and the pitchforks, make suggestions and open discussion, continue to show them how passionate we are. The HotS beta is changing drastically every week, months from release. In the middle of all this blizzard announce new UI updates fro Bnet that looks much improved. In the meantime enjoy the game and keep the drama out.
|
On October 25 2012 11:59 IdrA wrote:
the fact that theres actually people saying im too light on blizzard or that im happy/complacent with what theyre doing is the most damning proof ive ever seen that people will say anything to be obstinate assholes.
Nobody said you are too light on Blizzard, nobody said you're happy/complacent with them.
You said, and IncontroL agreed, that pressuring Blizzard is a nonsense, because they didn't do anything noticable to fix the game client and make it more casual-friendly, so can't ecpect them to suddenly change their approach.
Well, i for one disagree, because YOU, the players, commentators, hosts aka PILLARS OF THE COMMUNITY
never should stop voicing our concerns and thoughts about the game!
Because you are being heared, not us!
So when you stopped voicing those concerns, what the community is supposed to do?
You can't ignore us! We all see what's going on with SC2 client and how other game's viewer counts rise, but our don't!
And then came Destinny. He wrote what he wrote and it was the only thing that community could relate to!
So do you want Destiny to be the voice of the community, or you, IdrA, IncontroL, djWheat?
|
What a sad show.
Idra started playing BGH and that type of custom game in broodwar and is now who he is, so saying people who plays custom games in broodwar were of no use for e-sport is wrong.
Still Incontrol and IdrA are right in a way, Day[9]'s work is, for me, a way of creating a community, building the casual scene, that does not need Blizzard's involvement. His daily helped a lot of people understanding the basis of the game, well I'm one of them, but it's also true that the chat channel is a great problem.
|
On October 25 2012 22:43 5ukkub wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 11:59 IdrA wrote:
the fact that theres actually people saying im too light on blizzard or that im happy/complacent with what theyre doing is the most damning proof ive ever seen that people will say anything to be obstinate assholes. Nobody said you are too light on Blizzard, nobody said you're happy/complacent with them. You said, and IncontroL agreed, that pressuring Blizzard is a nonsense, because they didn't do anything noticable to fix the game client and make it more casual-friendly, so can't ecpect them to suddenly change their approach. Well, i for one disagree, because YOU, the players, commentators, hosts aka PILLARS OF THE COMMUNITY never should stop voicing our concerns and thoughts about the game!Because you are being heared, not us! So when you stopped voicing those concerns, what the community is supposed to do? You can't ignore us! We all see what's going on with SC2 client and how other game's viewer counts rise, but our don't! And then came Destinny. He wrote what he wrote and it was the only thing that community could relate to!So do you want Destiny to be the voice of the community, or you, IdrA, IncontroL, djWheat?
Valid points here.
If shouting about it doesn't work (and it seems to have generated a response from blizard), get out there do your thing and show some real results from your method (and results are not an infestor buff!).
It all came across as failry malicious self publication. If this approach is to be the voice of reason and debating skills in action, reasoning has changed a lot and is looking a bit shabby and childish. Bullying and insults are not mature reasoned argument.
|
On October 25 2012 23:43 WhiteDog wrote:
What a sad show.
Idra started playing BGH and that type of custom game in broodwar and is now who he is, so saying people who plays custom games in broodwar were of no use for e-sport is wrong.
Still Incontrol and IdrA are right in a way, Day[9]'s work is, for me, a way of creating a community, building the casual scene, that does not need Blizzard's involvement. His daily helped a lot of people understanding the basis of the game, well I'm one of them, but it's also true that the chat channel is a great problem.
yea exactly. Every hardcore player started out as casual.
Destiny really had the better arguments, but i feel like djwheat didn't get what was being said and only made it more confusing for everyone.
The whole breaking bad vs american talent argument... a better analogy would be that Riot/Valve is AMC and Blizzard is Fox, and both AMC and Fox at least do commercials, have interactive websites, do promotions, take feedback (remove stupid judges, get rid of certain characters, etc). It would be more akin if fox did way less promotion than amc did, even though they have 10x the budget. And it's true, lol, dota, whatever, didn't even exist 2 years ago, yet they have all these features while a company 10x larger has failed to put in.
i used to be a whole 'i dont give a damn about chat channels/clan support/name change' kind of guy but when you put it into perspective, that for over 2 years blizzard hasn't put it in... it's pretty damning. wtf is going on.
and nothing has worked so far to get blizzard's attention, i think it finally came down to doing what destiny/savehots did. idra/incontrol insist on just playing good at tournaments or something? that isn't going to fix the problem. lay into blizzard for their failings, dont just ignore these problems.
|
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the whole disagreement between Wheat/Idra/Incontrol and Destiny can be summarized as follows:
Wheat, Idra and Incontrol state that non-Blizzard parties were responsible for the development of most post-BW eSports infrastructure and SC2's success as a spectator sport.
Destiny stated that LoL and Dota 2 have used this very base of knowledge and infrastructure to build the eSports communities for their own games, and the fact that these games' developers are pretty much on side with their respective communities means (in his opinion) those games will grow better than SC2 where Blizzard is not, and never has been, on side with the SC2 community's needs.
Wheat, Idra and Incontrol think that Blizzard doesn't necessarily need to do all the things that would make SC2 a more user-friendly game in order for SC2 to survive, and Destiny does.
...Is that right? Am I missing something?
|
On October 26 2012 00:28 bonifaceviii wrote:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the whole disagreement between Wheat/Idra/Incontrol and Destiny can be summarized as follows:
Wheat, Idra and Incontrol state that non-Blizzard parties were responsible for the development of most post-BW eSports infrastructure and SC2's success as a spectator sport.
Destiny stated that LoL and Dota 2 have used this very base of knowledge and infrastructure to build the eSports communities for their own games, and the fact that these games' developers are pretty much on side with their respective communities means (in his opinion) those games will grow better than SC2 where Blizzard is not, and never has been, on side with the SC2 community's needs.
Wheat, Idra and Incontrol think that Blizzard doesn't necessarily need to do all the things that would make SC2 a more user-friendly game in order for SC2 to survive, and Destiny does.
...Is that right? Am I missing something?
Yes but also the fact that why they both agree that there are lots of things that need improvement with the game, they also disagree in that Destiny thinks the game is dead/dying, IdrA/Incontrol does not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
