I also want you to answer my question from yesterday, why did you think that it was better that I was shot over risk.nuke? Why did you think, right before the deadline, that wherebugsgo wasn't looking good?
Pick Your Poison Mafia - Page 27
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I also want you to answer my question from yesterday, why did you think that it was better that I was shot over risk.nuke? Why did you think, right before the deadline, that wherebugsgo wasn't looking good? | ||
prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
This is the only thing I actually find a little scummy but I think Toadesstern replied to it alright. His answer is confusing as hell but it doesn't seem scummy enough to warrant a lynch at all. Point 2: The bugs flip=flop Townies flip flop all the time. Scum Toadesstern had absolutely no incentive for flop flopping here. Why would a scum take something, call it null, then later bring that very same thing up again and call it scummy when it was pretty clear that wherebugsgo wasn't going to get lynched anyway? It's a high-risk-zero-gain maneuver and it makes no sense from scum perspective. Point 3: The scum slips I don't buy this. Toadesstern even posted at 10:59 KST, one minute before deadline and he provided a huge convoluted reason. His defense is shows that he thought about what he wrote in his own characteristic somewhat egocentric way. It seems too complex for scum to think this up so I'm going to say that this looks like a town tell to me after his response. Point 4: The prplhz case Having a really hard time to be objective here because it's about me and I suck at being objective. I think the case was horrible but I always think that about cases on me. I just don't see why scum Toadesstern would stay up until 3AM German time to write a horrible case on me when he could just not do that, there was no heat on him, the only heat there was in the thread was all on me, ideal situation for scum. He went to bed 5 minutes after he posted it. This looks kind of townie to me. At the danger of looking stupid later, I tentatively reject your case on Toadesstern. | ||
Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5763 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On June 04 2012 22:28 Sbrubbles wrote: @prplhz, who do you think we should lynch today? Well, with Radfield it's almost like either we lynch him or we do what he says. I don't understand how he can say that he wouldn't be opposed to a vigilante shooting me over risk.nuke day1 because vigilantes on day1 shoot to take out trash. They don't shoot into active contributing people. It's pretty clear (and common knowledge I should think) that anybody should prefer having me around at LYLO as opposed to a guy who posted as poorly as risk.nuke. Radfield even says that he can get a clear read on risk.nuke, how can he get a clear read on somebody who is barely posting? Why can't he get a clear read on me when he's had that in the last few games we played together? That said, I don't think Radfield looks too much like he did in LotR mafia (where he was scum) and more like he did in more recent town games (that's why I want him to post a more recent scum game so I can see if he started playing differently). I have other scum reads but I really want to talk to Radfield first even though I know I'm cutting time short here. I also think that risk.nuke is on to something when he said that shooting wherebugsgo was about wherebugsgo's reads. If there isn't a medic then it's 100% sure that Radfield is scum 'cause there's no way in hell that scum would shoot wherebugsgo over Radfield. If there is a medic, then it's still a somewhat risky move to shoot wherebugsgo when instead they could have tried to bluesnipe (but maybe that's what they were doing I just thought right now). wherebugsgo wanted to lynch Navilus, risk.nuke, Toadesstern, and Kurumi and then he wanted to look into Navilus' middle voters; prplhz, Toadesstern, talismania, slOosh. There's something about that or else I don't see why scum would shoot wherebugsgo. | ||
Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
also, its not "follow or lynch" with Radfield. This is scum mentality. Lynching risk.nuke is a perfect example that you won't follow Radfield and won't lynch him either. | ||
prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Yes, it's pretty much follow or lynch with Radfield. He's clearly the best player in this game and if I think he's town then it would be pretty dumb not to do what he says, while if I don't think he's town then it would be pretty dumb not to lynch him. But as should be very obvious, follow or lynch isn't always that simple and I'm not treating it as if it was that simple. You can probably see that I'm struggling a bit with this because I don't really want to do either thing. Maybe I just need more information, which is why I am asking for this information. Why do you think that Radfield is town Zephirdd? I asked you why you thought that Radfield and Kurumi were the two primary mayor candidates earlier but you never answered that, can you answer that question now? | ||
Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
radfield is obviously having tons of presence. Kurumi because of the day0: he led the framer voters and made a somewhat good case(at the time) on radfield, which makes me think he is a secondary candidate. He is also a veteran. I think he is town because lately I have this conspiracy theory where he is moving town as he wishes to end up killing everyone at once. And this feeling is the feeling I get whenever radfield is town. I am not 100 per cent convinced on toad being scum and I think risk lynch is a better lynch right now though, so thats why I dont follow him. Its quite simple really. also you are allowed to say "Im not sure on who to lynch right now" just give us an straight answer --' | ||
Sbrubbles
Brazil5763 Posts
On June 04 2012 23:05 prplhz wrote: Well, with Radfield it's almost like either we lynch him or we do what he says. I don't understand how he can say that he wouldn't be opposed to a vigilante shooting me over risk.nuke day1 because vigilantes on day1 shoot to take out trash. They don't shoot into active contributing people. It's pretty clear (and common knowledge I should think) that anybody should prefer having me around at LYLO as opposed to a guy who posted as poorly as risk.nuke. Radfield even says that he can get a clear read on risk.nuke, how can he get a clear read on somebody who is barely posting? Why can't he get a clear read on me when he's had that in the last few games we played together? That said, I don't think Radfield looks too much like he did in LotR mafia (where he was scum) and more like he did in more recent town games (that's why I want him to post a more recent scum game so I can see if he started playing differently). I have other scum reads but I really want to talk to Radfield first even though I know I'm cutting time short here. I also think that risk.nuke is on to something when he said that shooting wherebugsgo was about wherebugsgo's reads. If there isn't a medic then it's 100% sure that Radfield is scum 'cause there's no way in hell that scum would shoot wherebugsgo over Radfield. If there is a medic, then it's still a somewhat risky move to shoot wherebugsgo when instead they could have tried to bluesnipe (but maybe that's what they were doing I just thought right now). wherebugsgo wanted to lynch Navilus, risk.nuke, Toadesstern, and Kurumi and then he wanted to look into Navilus' middle voters; prplhz, Toadesstern, talismania, slOosh. There's something about that or else I don't see why scum would shoot wherebugsgo. + Show Spoiler + prplhz is purple haze? Mind = blown While I do agree scum would usually shoot Rad over wbg, we could have any number of explanations, including: we have a medic, wbg was right about someone, nobody was right on their strongest reads (Rad included), Rad is scum or scum shot suboptimally. I disagree that wbg was shot over his reads, because, even if he was right, he wasn't being actively pushing any one of them (and there were a lot as you pointed out). Pushing the idea that wbg was right in order to attack Zephirdd (without an actual case) is the main reason why I think risk's scum. | ||
risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
Radfield, since you've ignored my post. Why do you think they killed wbg? I'm against lynching toad today. I don't have a good read on him and I think he will become easier to figure out later. | ||
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I really shouldn't have posted that I thought a shot on you was a good idea, and never would have if you hadn't explicitly asked. There were a few things though that were making you think you were scum right then. As I mentioned before, I actually had you written down as PROB TOWN in my notes. Pretty sure it was a combo of a) your vote on navillus after defending him, b) voting majority +1 when the obvious vote was lynch lock(majority +1 would be quite mafia favoured given that we had little focus at the end of day 1) and c) the fact that it seemed you were overconfident Kurumi had no gun. All that being said, once I filter you again yesterday I felt you were fairly strongly town aligned. @Sbrubbles, you're right, I misread when filtering. Not sure how that happened. On June 04 2012 21:13 Kurumi wrote: I find it funny that the thing that made Radfield's case strong for me is the "see you d2" slip and many people dismiss it as something normal. Thank you. I agree it is the strongest part, and am a bit baffled that people think townies commonly refer to the end of night 1 as day 2. Or that they state with confidence they will be around on day 2. It simply DOES NOT HAPPEN. | ||
Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
Given day0 context, it's reasonable to believe Roleblocker would win. | ||
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 05 2012 00:23 risk.nuke wrote: Lets just assume we don't have a medic instead of using that as an excuse to justify scum-kills. If any of you were scum, would you give town a medic? That's like sabotaging for yourself so can we please assume the scum did not sabotage for themself and did not give us a medic. Radfield, since you've ignored my post. Why do you think they killed wbg? How did I ignore your post? Which post are you even talking about, please show me. I'm not really interested in why bugs died. He's a good enough player that him getting shot N1 is fairly irrelevant. He's also the kind of player who has weak D1 reads, and then get startlingly accurate as the game goes on(as long as he doesn't get sidetracked). I also don't think scum realized medic was the strongest role we could have. On the surface it looks weak, as most medics miss, and it can't confirm townies or catch scum. Especially if they think they were getting roleblocker, then medic might seem like the least of the evils. I'm against lynching toad today. I don't have a good read on him and I think he will become easier to figure out later. Your resistance to lynching Toad is noted. Please state specifically which parts of my case you find strong or weak. Also, who is your alternative, still Zeph based off of WBG's accusations? | ||
HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
For me, the lynch is between Toad and risk.nuke. Zephirdd's recent posting has been a lot better. While I think the case against Toad is strong, he has been responding in a mostly townie manner. Meanwhile, risk is walking around not giving proper reasoning or anything really. I think I'll go through some filters during my lunch break. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
@Radfield - the "nonsense GF vote" refers to when several players attacked HiroPro for his GF vote but none could properly procure (in my opinion) a decent explanation as why it was scummy. That said, many of my town reads find Sbrubbles ok and right now there is the more pressing matter of consolidating today's lynch. Before that I want to preface my vote by saying that there are several players who seem keen on chasing red herrings. Stuff like "the game must be balanced in terms of vets", "why did mafia shoot WBG", "what roles would scum give town" are all that. Not because they are illegitimate discussion points (except the first one I think that's total rubbish), but there is a more pressing matter at hand which is deciding today's lynch and these three questions really do very little to nothing to determine which is the best candidate for the lynch, and serve as distractions that cripple town's focus. I find myself agreeing strongly with Radfield's read on Toadesstern, more so because of the way Toad responded to his case. As talismania pointed out, he doesn't actually consider Radfield as possible scum. He defends himself not by showing why the case's points are flawed, but rather throwing out discussion points such as balance On June 04 2012 17:18 Toadesstern wrote: Another thing I have in mind right now is balance. Do you really think a team like Rad proposed (Toad + Risk + Zephirdd?) is likely? Against Town-WBG, against Town-Rad, against Town-Prplhz, against Town-Kurumi? Those are all here playing mafia way longer than I am, especially Rad and WBG. WBG already flipped town. Do you honestly believe someone would make a team like that? That's btw the only reason I question Rad right now. Balancewise it would make a lot of sense if he's mafia but I can't find a thing that brings me to that conclusion except for this very thought. as well as focusing upon the "scumslip". Radfield said himself that his case isn't built up on standalone points but that they all together suggest a pattern rather than coincidences. Yet he is treating the case as if it was some runaway bandwagon caused by someone finding a "scumslip" and focusing all his attention on this point, despite people actually thinking the opposite (compelled by the other points of the case / his response to it rather than the "scumslip") On June 04 2012 08:16 talismania wrote: Actually, another point in light of the case rad just posted: why did you reply so defensively to my post at all? On June 04 2012 08:32 HiroPro wrote: I agree with Radfield. I don't find the "going to be there d2" scummy but both the push on me (the uneven nature of it, especially when I look at people like Sbrubbles who also pushed me but did it very differently) and the really strange accusation on WBG (especially when Toad attempted to use this in his case against prplhz) are scummy. Toad's response to my questioning on the WBG part of his case against prplhz was bad, especially since he misrepresents prplhz (says that prplhz continued to push for WBG lynch, when in fact that was not the case at all. ##Vote: Toadesstern (I will not be voting in the actual thread until much closer to the deadline) I think we got something solid here: ##Vote: Toadesstern P.s. I also think risk.nuke is scum and a great D3 lynch candidate. The reason why I support a Toad lynch over risk is because the case is stronger. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On June 05 2012 02:12 slOosh wrote: Alright - I've caught up on the thread. @Radfield - the "nonsense GF vote" refers to when several players attacked HiroPro for his GF vote but none could properly procure (in my opinion) a decent explanation as why it was scummy. That said, many of my town reads find Sbrubbles ok and right now there is the more pressing matter of consolidating today's lynch. Before that I want to preface my vote by saying that there are several players who seem keen on chasing red herrings. Stuff like "the game must be balanced in terms of vets", "why did mafia shoot WBG", "what roles would scum give town" are all that. Not because they are illegitimate discussion points (except the first one I think that's total rubbish), but there is a more pressing matter at hand which is deciding today's lynch and these three questions really do very little to nothing to determine which is the best candidate for the lynch, and serve as distractions that cripple town's focus. I find myself agreeing strongly with Radfield's read on Toadesstern, more so because of the way Toad responded to his case. As talismania pointed out, he doesn't actually consider Radfield as possible scum. He defends himself not by showing why the case's points are flawed, but rather throwing out discussion points such as balance as well as focusing upon the "scumslip". Radfield said himself that his case isn't built up on standalone points but that they all together suggest a pattern rather than coincidences. Yet he is treating the case as if it was some runaway bandwagon caused by someone finding a "scumslip" and focusing all his attention on this point, despite people actually thinking the opposite (compelled by the other points of the case / his response to it rather than the "scumslip") I think we got something solid here: ##Vote: Toadesstern P.s. I also think risk.nuke is scum and a great D3 lynch candidate. The reason why I support a Toad lynch over risk is because the case is stronger. So summary: I am scum because instead of defending myself from Rad (which I did and you apparently either haven't read it or ignored it) instead of attacking him and for being defensive when talis asked me about something rather than head on attacking someone. Nice logic. I think you need to lynch everyone in the game. Just in case you actually skipped the posts for some reason: + Show Spoiler [#1, in general] + On June 04 2012 07:57 Toadesstern wrote: Going to break the answer down to your 4 parts: Part 1: I thought Hiropro is a semi-vet. That's why I attacked him for the GF vote because I thought a vet would be smart enough to figure out that it's either RB or framer with all the talk d0 and I thought I caught him lying about why he voted for GF. Furthermore I would have considered a vet who really thinks that GF could be an issue to be more talkactive about what he found out BEFORE the end of deadline. That was basicly it. And yeah it collapsed the moment I was told hiro is not a vet. If you had told me "i wasn't sure it's between RB and Framer and therefore voted GF" I would have voted you as well. About the confirmed... Give me one game in which I don't talk about confirmed people. That's an exaggeration I can't get rid of. I called VE confirmed mafia in LV and he flipped town lol. Part 2: I added WBG to the list because I thought the 24-hour thing IS something weird while the not talking part wasn't considering that half of the players had not started talking at that time Part 3: That's me referring to the deadline. As in "See you tomorrow and in I'll answer that 10 seconds short of the deadline with one big post". Also I got A LOT of criticism for mentioning I'm a n1 target in LV. Go read n1 of that game Rad. I thought I should just keep it neutral this time because people called me disruptive in LV for that reason. Part 4: Well and I simply disagree with part 4. "Part 5:" The buddying thing. I'm not buddying I'm joking around and ever since the Annul game I am joking around with people who have been in derpgames like that and I still find it funny that you called me most-likely-town that game. I'm "buddying" you in every game. I did the same in c9++ #2, I did the same in the PYP you coached. I was town in both... + Show Spoiler [#2, about the "scumslip"] + On June 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote: Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2... Here's a little quote from WBG from LV after I said I'm probably going to die n1: and I've got that a lot. I take the neutral stance on wether or not I'm going to die n1 as an improvement because I was told to not talk about it anymore A LOT. + Show Spoiler [#3, about the wbg stuff and the "…] + On June 04 2012 08:47 Toadesstern wrote: I never included it in my own case.. I said what Prplhz said about WBG is a null because you could say the same thing about at least 5 other people. I said the 24-hour thing however IS weird. And that was what? 24 into the game with half the thread not posting? Yeah that's got to be a really strong post ... Because it's still referring to my post I did about prplhz? Because YOU will read it once d2 has started because I'm doing it right at the deadline. Wtf is this about. You even pointed at the post I did (the case on prplhz) AT THE DEADLINE and NOT on D2 and yet you keep assuming I am referrign to some not existing post on d2? + Show Spoiler [#4, why I changed my "style"…] + On June 04 2012 09:41 Toadesstern wrote: Yes I am attacking you because I am mad at you for telling peolpe I scumslipped when I did no such thing. I already gave all the reasoning there is to explain why nothing you said about me is alignment indicating and the scumslip just isn't a scumslip. Here's a funny sidenote: I actually had "see you d2 if I survive" written in the preview box in those 2 comments you quoted + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote: Okay back and I know I promised I would talk about who those 2 guys are I mentioned and why they are mafia but I realized I was retarded when I said that. See you d2 and On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: got ninja'ed About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry. checked it and decided to just post "once d2 has started" without the "if I make it" or "if I survve" part because as mentioned wbg attacked me HEAVILY just 24hours (?) prior to that in my other game. I already quoted the part but here is it again: You think something like that has no influence on how I post? I changed it to that neutral "see you d2" one ON PURPOSE not because I had information of wether or not I would do n1 but because I got a shitton of posts like the one wbg did just RECENTLY. Recently as in 24 hours prior to the post I made. Yes I should have said "I'll post 10 secs prior to the deadline" instead of "on d2" but there is no post on d2 so obviously I am referring to the post I did on the DEADLINE when talking about my big post that I'm about to make. I also told you that this time I'm going to ninja you, which is just again another tell that I never intended to post it d2. How should I know how to ninja you when I was not talking about the deadline? Why are you telling me I haven't answered those issues? I answered every single one of them | ||
HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
The fact that he doesn't want to lynch me is nice though :3 | ||
HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 05 2012 00:23 risk.nuke wrote: I'm against lynching toad today. I don't have a good read on him and I think he will become easier to figure out later. On June 05 2012 03:05 Toadesstern wrote: a null and I can't really judge him because he hasn't posted yet... The fact that he doesn't want to lynch me is nice though :3 Hmmmmmmmmm. | ||
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