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fact is you got in here assuming I have to be mafia although he never checked my filter because everyone else was town according to you except for risk.
You went trough my filter searching for things like that not even thinking about what I meant by saying them and come up with a post that is referring to a post AT THE DEADLINE although I said after the deadline (like in 2 secs later...).
You're record on figuring me out is what so far? 0-4 or is it 0-5? You called me town in the first game we played together and I ended up being mafia, big deal but ever after that game you called me mafia EVERY SINGLE GAME we played together and yes, we played games in which I played town as well...
You've simply got to be kidding me. You said I am mafia d1 this game again, like you always do and since you have a townread on most other people you figured it's best to lynch into RB-voters because you said it was obvious RB wins while other people (hi there kurumi, wbg and prplhz) thought framer would obviously win. You're whole point is assuming that your 2 townreads are right and therefore risk and I have to be mafia and you went through my filter with that though, like in every other game since the Annul game...
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Incorrect. I went into your filter with an open mind, particularly focused on whether you were town or scum. Part of the reason I am good at this game is because I can set things aside and keep and open mind.
My record for finding out your alignment is irrelevant. Please show me the games you were town where I thought you were scum. Keeping in mind that in WoF I specifically stated I was null on you, and leaning scum on sandroba(2 members of a hydra).
Not to mention I am going to get better and better at reading you the more games we play together.
I also specifically noted that my case on you is NOT built on vote analysis, but built upon your actions irrespective of other players alignments.
I hope people have noticed that Toad has moved on from defending himself, to attacking me.
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Yes I am attacking you because I am mad at you for telling peolpe I scumslipped when I did no such thing.
I already gave all the reasoning there is to explain why nothing you said about me is alignment indicating and the scumslip just isn't a scumslip.
Here's a funny sidenote: I actually had "see you d2 if I survive" written in the preview box in those 2 comments you quoted
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 03 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote:
Okay back and I know I promised I would talk about who those 2 guys are I mentioned and why they are mafia but I realized I was retarded when I said that. See you d2
and On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: got ninja'ed About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry.
checked it and decided to just post "once d2 has started" without the "if I make it" or "if I survve" part because as mentioned wbg attacked me HEAVILY just 24hours (?) prior to that in my other game.
I already quoted the part but here is it again:
On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.
[...]
You think something like that has no influence on how I post? I changed it to that neutral "see you d2" one ON PURPOSE not because I had information of wether or not I would do n1 but because I got a shitton of posts like the one wbg did just RECENTLY. Recently as in 24 hours prior to the post I made.
Yes I should have said "I'll post 10 secs prior to the deadline" instead of "on d2" but there is no post on d2 so obviously I am referring to the post I did on the DEADLINE when talking about my big post that I'm about to make. I also told you that this time I'm going to ninja you, which is just again another tell that I never intended to post it d2. How should I know how to ninja you when I was not talking about the deadline?
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Again, Read PYP and read n1 of LV....
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Did you read Navilus' first 5 posts in Resistance 2 that I linked you to yet Toadesstern?
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Also going to be now... it's 2:44 am I have to wake up tomorrow and I'm really mad because rad is telling people I'm mafia when imo it should be pretty obvious I am town...
Will be back in here tomorrow... just read the two games I told you (n1 one the 2nd one is enough, it's a big game) and if you still think anything Rad said is making me look scummy I can't talk back to that because everything he pointet out is perfectly explained in those 2 games. You need to read them to judge wether or not what I said a) makes sense b) is likely to be the truth.
I'm not making some bullshit up I am talking about VERY RECENT things that happened that made me change several things ON PURPOSE and I'm not only talking about the "scumslip".
If you don't read those games all there is for you is flipping a coing on wether or not I am really telling the truth. If you read those games you should easily see that it's the truth and it is no coincidence...
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I really hate when people just ignore my questions. I can only assume it's because the answer is "No" 'cause you probably wouldn't be reluctant to say "Yes" if that was the case and you very obviously saw my question.
I don't get how you can't read 5 short posts that I link you directly to but you have no quarrels expecting everybody else to read 1 game + 1 cycle when you're asking them to.
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Hey guys I'm back. skimmed through the thread but I grasped the idea.
First of all, I love Toad's AtE. I used that on Sleeper Cell II and we ended up in a draw(when it should have been an obvious scum win T_T). AtE = Appeal to Emotion
Different games are different; If Radfield finds reasons to push Toadesstern every game, he is right to push Toadesstern every game. However I disagree on the "scumslip": Saying "see you on day2" isn't indicative of alignment at all in my opinion. It's not a slip, it's not "knowing you will live". It's just saying it.
However, other points still stand: Toadesstern's cases aren't good. They fit the scumagenda. Saying HiroPro had "basically claimed mafia", the wbg case, etc.
I don't think Toad is the right lynch target right now though. Have you guys seen risk.nuke?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340727&user=76576
^his amazing filter.
1. Read it(it's short guys, you probably would read it faster than you could read Radfield's case on prplhz)
2. Search for anything that makes sense from a town perspective
3. Laugh at it
4. Vote him
In case it's not obvious, what you find in this filter is blatant sheeping, lack of substance and terrible logic for pushing a mislynch(which would be my lynch). Besides, his lack of activity is gigantic; Not only that, but he is not showing his overconfidence of his town self. I mean, he usually just does whatever the f* he wants, throws accusations at people and show confidence. Here he is sheeping people and pointing fingers at everyone(look at his hiro/sloosh/zephirdd post).
Lynch risk!
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Lol very late ebwop
"1. Read it(it's short guys, you probably would read it faster than you could read Radfield's case on Toadestern)" is how it should read.
Not that it matter anyway
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Toad please keep LV talk out of this thread, at least as long as you alive in that ongoing game.
I've skimmed most of the posts, but unable to post b/c I want to quote stuff and it's hard.
I'll have proper internets on the weekday so I'll be regular activity again.
Zephirdd only reason to lynch risk over Toad is if you definitively think risk is more likely to flip scum over Toad. Maybe I missed posts skimming but risk is quasi-lurker, which means for him to look more scummy is to basically say Toad is looking null / town. Can you do this? Show risk is more scummy?
I think talis mentioned that I stopped pushing Sbrubbles on the nonsense GF vote, which I think was part of Radfield's case against Toad. I need to refilter this properly tomorrow since I think he acknoweldges his mistake somewhere and a bunch of people who I think are town also think he looks ok so I gotta look again.
prplhz vs Kurumi (?) thing I skipped entirely and will reread tomorrow.
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sloosh, it's just that my general sentiment on Toads is that he isn't looking too far from his town-self. In fact, he looks... normal. There are many things that point to him being scum - just like there are many things that point to me, but these are wrong in my case.
I consider risk to be scummier because I know town risk. Heck, I just played with town risk on an ongoing game, and even tried to push against him(me as scum, him as town). I consider risk one of the easiest players to grasp a town read on. I do not have a town read on him here; And what he's been doing is way more anti-town than what Toad has done so far imo. Heck, at the very very least Toad made a case.
That's why I consider a risk.nuke lynch better than a Toadestern lynch right now.
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On June 04 2012 09:20 Radfield wrote:
[...]
I hope people have noticed that Toad has moved on from defending himself, to attacking me.
Actually I think it's more telling that toad HASN'T been attacking radfield. I mean, he's attacked rad's scumhunting abilities, but he hasn't said that he thinks rad is scum, or that rad is pushing a scum agenda, nor does it even seem like he has considered it. That's strange as hell if he's town.
toad,
what do you think Rad's alignment is? Why?
You think prp is scum. Who do you think the other two are?
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Meh, risk.nuke's filter is still so shallow that it's hard to analyze anything. What little he does have doesn't look very good, but I'm favoring the Toad lynch.
Toad has a clear agenda in hunting for mislynches. And Toad's responses have mostly been to the "alive on day 2 thing", which I don't really consider alignment-revealing, and frankly isn't something worth discussing further.
He still doesn't really say why he tried to push a case based almost solely on a game mechanic. And he sidesteps the issue of how he went from "oh be a team player" to "confirmed mafia" to "lynch between these people is fine" by saying that "confirmed" is just a quirk of speech, and not something he really means and also with the whole "hiro protagonist-HiroPro" confusion, but that was well after the changing opinions.
And Sbrubbles appears to have disappeared.
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On June 04 2012 09:44 prplhz wrote:
Did you read Navilus' first 5 posts in Resistance 2 that I linked you to yet Toadesstern? On June 04 2012 10:04 prplhz wrote:
I really hate when people just ignore my questions. I can only assume it's because the answer is "No" 'cause you probably wouldn't be reluctant to say "Yes" if that was the case and you very obviously saw my question.
I don't get how you can't read 5 short posts that I link you directly to but you have no quarrels expecting everybody else to read 1 game + 1 cycle when you're asking them to.
Yes I read them. Yes I can see where you're comming from when talking about the excuse which makes your reasoning to vote him a little less weak and understandable. I still find the reasoning to call him town in the first place weird though.
On June 04 2012 13:51 HiroPro wrote:
Meh, risk.nuke's filter is still so shallow that it's hard to analyze anything. What little he does have doesn't look very good, but I'm favoring the Toad lynch.
Toad has a clear agenda in hunting for mislynches. And Toad's responses have mostly been to the "alive on day 2 thing", which I don't really consider alignment-revealing, and frankly isn't something worth discussing further.
He still doesn't really say why he tried to push a case based almost solely on a game mechanic. And he sidesteps the issue of how he went from "oh be a team player" to "confirmed mafia" to "lynch between these people is fine" by saying that "confirmed" is just a quirk of speech, and not something he really means and also with the whole "hiro protagonist-HiroPro" confusion, but that was well after the changing opinions.
And Sbrubbles appears to have disappeared.
I'm talkging about that because Radfield keeps mentioning that. I already explained everything else about the case.
I explained that I thought you are a vet and I said if someone else (a vet) would have told me they didn't realize it's between RB and Framer I would have pushed them for ly as well. The moment I realized you're not the guy I thought you are I immediatly stopped pushing you and said I'm taking back what I said because it was built on the assumption that you are a vet and should know better than that. So basicly I thought I caught you lying about your vote with the assumption that you're a vet and I saw no reason to lie about your vote as a townie. I already explained this. There should be no need to post this twice although I just did it. I explained everything else as well.
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On June 04 2012 12:59 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 09:20 Radfield wrote:
[...]
I hope people have noticed that Toad has moved on from defending himself, to attacking me. Actually I think it's more telling that toad HASN'T been attacking radfield. I mean, he's attacked rad's scumhunting abilities, but he hasn't said that he thinks rad is scum, or that rad is pushing a scum agenda, nor does it even seem like he has considered it. That's strange as hell if he's town. toad, what do you think Rad's alignment is? Why? You think prp is scum. Who do you think the other two are?
Sorry I'm not omgusing like crazy. Yes I consider Rad to be town right now. I also considered Kurumi to be town. Reason being he's activly pushing things, asking questions and doing something in general although he is wrong like he always is the first couple of days... He didn't do that in AC when he was mafia until he claimed. Yes I am questioning myself right now because of this case and how I already explained why it's not showing the updated truth about me (I mentioned PYP and LV enough by now, didn't I ?...) and instead trying to paint a picture about what I should be like considering my play in WoF were I / my hydra got shot n1 as town although I'd definitely say Sandroba got shot for being Sandroba and I probably never was the prime target.
Another thing I have in mind right now is balance. Do you really think a team like Rad proposed (Toad + Risk + Zephirdd?) is likely? Against Town-WBG, against Town-Rad, against Town-Prplhz, against Town-Kurumi?
Those are all here playing mafia way longer than I am, especially Rad and WBG. WBG already flipped town. Do you honestly believe someone would make a team like that? That's btw the only reason I question Rad right now. Balancewise it would make a lot of sense if he's mafia but I can't find a thing that brings me to that conclusion except for this very thought.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I never proposed a team like that, and I do not propose scum teams as a rule. I always play one scum player at a time.
Not to mention, I stated clearly that I do not think Zephirdd Is scum at this moment. You also never showed me all the games you were town that I thought you were scum. I bring this up because you were trying to discredit my scumhunting based on those games, yet those games do not exist.
Also, as I mentioned before, the issue with your actions regarding Hiropro had nothing to do with whether you thought he was hiroprotagonist. Even if he WAS hiroprotagonist, you actions up to and including the point where you voted him were very inconsistent and scummy. Something you have tried to wash under the bridge by pointing to your later confusion.
On June 04 2012 12:43 slOosh wrote:
I think talis mentioned that I stopped pushing Sbrubbles on the nonsense GF vote, which I think was part of Radfield's case against Toad. I need to refilter this properly tomorrow since I think he acknoweldges his mistake somewhere and a bunch of people who I think are town also think he looks ok so I gotta look again.
What are you referring to? What is Sbrubbles 'nonsense GF vote'?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Also, who said anything about Kurumi being Town....
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On June 04 2012 19:29 Radfield wrote:
Also, who said anything about Kurumi being Town....
I think he is saying that there must be scum in the vet list
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On June 04 2012 19:43 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 19:29 Radfield wrote:
Also, who said anything about Kurumi being Town....
I think he is saying that there must be scum in the vet list
exactly...
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Hey guys, I'm here. Weekend was a bit crazy for me. Lemme comment on the current topics:
On prplhz's case, I dissagree that his argument, on making sure mafia knew they were getting roleblocker so that we'd be sure of what they have, was scummy. I still think it is wrong, but I saw merit in Rad's case for it.
Prplhz posting D1 (pre-Nav switch) was null to me (he pressured wbg based on meta and voted for me without much of an argument). Not the best way to conduct discussion by far, but it didn't feel like he was actively trying to mislead.
I do think his Nav switch was funky though. His argument boils down to "I want a lynch. I didn't want to before because the last game he lurked, came back saying he was sorry and was town. Now he doesn't look like he's sorry".
+ Show Spoiler +On June 02 2012 09:02 prplhz wrote:
Blues always say stuff like "It's really not a good idea to lynch me." and "Trust me on this one." and "Town shouldn't lynch me."
I don't know how I manage to miss it all the time.
I'm most likely joining a Navilus lynch because I want a lynch Before, he was just being afk and his day0 actions didn't look too different from everybody else. I played with him before when he was town and afk, and when he came back he was really sorry about it (and wrote a huge post explaining exactly why he was afk). He doesn't look remorseful at all here, that post looks like he wants any sort of heat off of him and hopes that I'll just keep defending him 'cause that's what I did before.
Well I'm not gonna. I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think.
##Unvote Sbrubbles
##Vote Navilus
Thinking on Toad, I agree with most of Rad's case. It was strange him suddenly calling wbg scum D1 (without an explanation, after treating him as null) and that it was odd for him to be focusing so much on the fact that prplhz defended Nav. I don't see "see you D2" as a scumslip.
Right now I'm leaning more scum on Toad than on prplhz, but, that said, I think risk.nuke is our best lynch for today:
1) His D1 is comprised of accusing a total of 4 people, without explanations,
+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2012 22:02 risk.nuke wrote:
I am pleased with radfield and I no longer want to make radpie.
On the other hand I believe we could vastly benefit from shortening hiro by a head, turning sloosh into slush and murdering zepphird.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2012 02:54 risk.nuke wrote:
Dearest Kurumi, I am Mr. Lovett. lets make some Radpie.
2) Followed by him pushing Zeph during N1. This smells of a scum push because 1) his reasons aren't clear (he poses the Zeph lynch as both an information lynch and a scum lynch) and 2) uses the mafia kill, which is a minefield of wifom, as his primary argument (using it as an additional argument is doable, but this is not the case), which, actually, is the only argument he chooses to discuss.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2012 23:50 risk.nuke wrote:
I think we should lynch zephirdd for two reasons.
1. It will shed light on the voteswitch. It is infact very important that we learn zephirdds aligntment or we'll just stab ourselves in the foot if he turns out to be town.
2. Wbg was for lynching 3 people. Myself, Navillus and Zephirdd (And kurumi who he might not have pushed for because he didn't think he could get him lynched). Wbg was killed which indicates that the mafia believed he was on to something. Knowing that I am town, Navillus is town that leaves Zephirdd (and Kurumi).
Also, @Radfield,
On June 04 2012 05:19 Radfield wrote:
Sbrubbles, you mentioned that Hiropro preferred framer to godfather on D0, but I don't see it. Care to help me out?
I mentioned he preferred framer to roleblocker, not to godfather.
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EPT
