On May 13 2012 12:35 AcuWill wrote:
We are focusing on the election in progress, the Republican Primary.
We are focusing on the election in progress, the Republican Primary.
This is the general election thread. There was already a primary thread.
Forum Index > General Forum |
Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
Mohdoo
United States15139 Posts
May 13 2012 04:09 GMT
#1981
On May 13 2012 12:35 AcuWill wrote: Show nested quote + On May 13 2012 12:23 Mohdoo wrote: Mitt Romney recently spoke at a Christian university and used his stance on gay marriage to try to win their support. Thought it was interesting that this is indeed becoming an issue: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/12/mitt-romney-liberty-university-speech_n_1511621.html Why are you guys discussing Ron Paul I'm sorry for backseat moderating, but Ron Paul is really off-topic here and I wish people would focus on the election. We are focusing on the election in progress, the Republican Primary. This is the general election thread. There was already a primary thread. | ||
TheToast
United States4808 Posts
May 13 2012 05:44 GMT
#1982
On May 13 2012 12:13 AcuWill wrote: Show nested quote + How about the cheating liars hurting the Republican Party?On May 13 2012 11:40 TheToast wrote: On May 13 2012 07:20 BioNova wrote: The OK GOP convention just went up in flames. Obama wins. Romney vs Paul is shredding the GOP. The chair took a quick motion and second to adjourn the convention. He took a voice vote and the NAYS were over-powering. He adjourned the convention among yelling and shouting and told the delegates they could finish their convention in the parking lot. Results: Single, GOP formulated slate adopted with no ROLL CALL vote as required by Oklahoma state republican party rules. Delegate slate is invalid as rules prohibiting the election of national delegates without a ROLL CALL vote were ignored by the chair. Video @ 25 min in http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/22541812 Echo convention of St Charles Co, Mo. Romney calling on Santorum supporters as proxy forces were still outnumbered and called the convention. A large group of delegates is now reconducting buisness in the parking lot, per the chair's suggestion(sarcasm). Wow terribad. I'm getting quite the laugh. Interesting, but pointless. Electing the representatives via voice vote instead of a roll call vote is frankly a minor infraction, and there's no legal standards preventing them from doing so. And any way you slice it, it really doesn't matter. All the Ron Paul supporters are doing now is hurting the Republican party. This is stupid and pointless. Ron Paul is not going to win the election, anything they're doing at this point that isn't helping Romney is helping Obama. And lol @ the chair's comment about the parking lot, if I were in his shoes I wouldn't even have been that polite to the Ron Paul devotees. As in the ones that don't follow the established rules. Good thing that absolutely EVERYTHING is on video and you can watch to your heart's content and try to deny what I am saying. What are you saying exactly? Trust me, it's not the flaunting of minor rules that lost Ron Paul the nomination, it's the fact that the vast majority of his platform is completely out of touch with the Republican base. On May 13 2012 12:15 Lixler wrote: Show nested quote + On May 13 2012 12:13 AcuWill wrote: On May 13 2012 11:40 TheToast wrote: How about the cheating liars hurting the Republican Party?On May 13 2012 07:20 BioNova wrote: The OK GOP convention just went up in flames. Obama wins. Romney vs Paul is shredding the GOP. The chair took a quick motion and second to adjourn the convention. He took a voice vote and the NAYS were over-powering. He adjourned the convention among yelling and shouting and told the delegates they could finish their convention in the parking lot. Results: Single, GOP formulated slate adopted with no ROLL CALL vote as required by Oklahoma state republican party rules. Delegate slate is invalid as rules prohibiting the election of national delegates without a ROLL CALL vote were ignored by the chair. Video @ 25 min in http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/22541812 Echo convention of St Charles Co, Mo. Romney calling on Santorum supporters as proxy forces were still outnumbered and called the convention. A large group of delegates is now reconducting buisness in the parking lot, per the chair's suggestion(sarcasm). Wow terribad. I'm getting quite the laugh. Interesting, but pointless. Electing the representatives via voice vote instead of a roll call vote is frankly a minor infraction, and there's no legal standards preventing them from doing so. And any way you slice it, it really doesn't matter. All the Ron Paul supporters are doing now is hurting the Republican party. This is stupid and pointless. Ron Paul is not going to win the election, anything they're doing at this point that isn't helping Romney is helping Obama. And lol @ the chair's comment about the parking lot, if I were in his shoes I wouldn't even have been that polite to the Ron Paul devotees. As in the ones that don't follow the established rules. Good thing that absolutely EVERYTHING is on video and you can watch to your heart's content and try to deny what I am saying. Being a cheating liar is good for the Republic Party. If you don't cheat and lie, then the establishment is threatened. If you don't allow people to cheat and lie, you're just helping Obama win. All politicians lie. You don't get to be a US Presidential nominee, let alone a US president without knowing how to lie. On May 13 2012 12:35 AcuWill wrote: Show nested quote + On May 13 2012 12:23 Mohdoo wrote: Mitt Romney recently spoke at a Christian university and used his stance on gay marriage to try to win their support. Thought it was interesting that this is indeed becoming an issue: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/12/mitt-romney-liberty-university-speech_n_1511621.html Why are you guys discussing Ron Paul I'm sorry for backseat moderating, but Ron Paul is really off-topic here and I wish people would focus on the election. We are focusing on the election in progress, the Republican Primary. Except that it's over. Romney is the candidate. Unless Ron Paul can manage to get just about every single remaining primary vote, Romney will be the automatic candidate. Romney has 769 hard delegates, those are delegates who are obligated to vote for him in the first round of the nomination voting. Ron Paul has 63. There is literally no way for him to win. The convention has been nothing more than a rubber stamp for decades, and this one will be no different. Romney is the republican candidate, the convention will rubber stamp that in August. Honestly, we need to stop discussing this, it's completely pointless. | ||
paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
May 13 2012 05:56 GMT
#1983
On May 13 2012 03:29 AcuWill wrote: Show nested quote + On May 12 2012 21:23 aksfjh wrote: On May 12 2012 20:16 AcuWill wrote: On May 12 2012 11:13 aksfjh wrote: On May 12 2012 10:37 AcuWill wrote: On May 12 2012 06:36 aksfjh wrote: On May 12 2012 01:58 AcuWill wrote: On May 12 2012 01:51 Gorsameth wrote: On May 12 2012 01:39 AcuWill wrote: On May 12 2012 01:34 Iteachextra wrote: “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” ~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006 My favorite quote and one that I use frequently. The response to it is defening silence. Realise that the situation is everything. Bush had a surplus from clinton and put America into dept. The best way to combat a recession is to pump money into the economy which raises dept. You then pay back that dept when the econamy recovers and your able to run a surplus aswell. The best way to "combat" a "recession" (which is the natural removal of the inefficient portions of the economy) is not the pump more money into it (debt no less) which will cause more inefficiency, which will then "recess" more dramatically at a later time. Regardless of the terrible notion you have proposed, read the quote and tell me what about it is only applicable to 2006 and not applicable today. You should really read more literature outside of Ron Paul newsletters when it comes to economics. In 2006, reckless fiscal policy would be running a large deficit with Fed interest rates above 0%. There was really no reason for the U.S. to borrow more money with taxes at an all time low and a mishandling of U.S. longterm social commitments. In 2011, Fed interest rates had been at least 0% for at least 2 years and state and local governments couldn't finance their required projects due to reduced revenue and an increase in social aid. While government spending seemed to increase over that same period, what we actually saw was an increase of people in poverty needing government assistance and the economic output shrink dramatically. Not only that, but the U.S. is able to refinance its current debt at levels below inflation, meaning investors (which are largely American now) are taking a loss to put their money into U.S. bonds. Along with incredibly high unemployment, this is the perfect situation in which the government needs to spend money, allowing people to earn more income and pay off their own debt. When investors look to private industry and consumers as more appealing to invest in and unemployment is at acceptable levels, then you start looking at ways to cut back and increase revenue. My economic thought regarding economics were totally developed before I knew who Ron Paul was. You are a total tool for trying to pigeon hole me like that. Now, with regard to your post. It's terribly painful and wrong in so many fashions that I don't want to get into it , but I will point a couple of things out. You seem to totally miss the point of the government not running on deficits, what it takes to keep such low interest rates, and how the very same mechanisms involved with each lead to economic collapses/recession that result in lowered tax revenue and increased pull on social services provided by the government and how the subsequent "cure" isn't to keep taking the same medicine, just at a higher dose. I agree. The way out of this recession isn't to keep deregulating banks and high risk industries. But I have a feeling you think the real way to recover the economy is to pull out the floor on the base of the economy, consumers, by drastically cutting back on welfare and healthcare. I'm sure reducing the purchasing power of 100 million Americans will certainly provide a boost to the economy. Way to continue to pigeon hole me like a tool. Once again, your assumption is totally wrong, and therefore the rest of your post, which you argue your flawed assumption, is totally wrong as well. Please read what you wrote and then explain how QE1, QE2, Operation Twist, and the Fed purchasing 50% of Federal Debt issuance isn't doing EXACTLY what you describe, except instead of reducing the purchasing power of 100 million, it punishes and reduces the purchasing power of EVERYONE that has produced something and SAVED capital therefore punishing them, while rewarding those that have put all us of in this situation in the first place. Also, of course if you pull all the legs off the chair at once you will have terrible consequences. At this stage, pragmatic Austrians know that rebuilding is step-wise process, which begins with unhindering the economy first. This should be done with a separation of Economy and State, which should be totally like the separating of Church and State. Tbh, based on what you have written, you don't express to even understand how Austrians, like Ron Paul, advocate to do such things. Ah, so we all suffer for the "wrongs" of certain actors. We must atone for our sins to the invisible hands of the markets, and only then will we find economic salvation! Quantitative easing is the Fed attempting to boost inflation and investment, both in the private and public sector. The government isn't acting rationally though because politicians of a certain party have backed themselves into a corner. Now we have a death spiral in public sector jobs, forcing a lack of demand in the private sector, which forces investors to the only consumer who can spend: government. Despite your misguided theories, though, this Fed injection of money isn't even causing inflation. The money they are lending to banks (and the U.S. government) isn't being used, so it's not entering circulation. At the end of the day, they still have to pay back everything that is loaned by the Fed. In the end, all we have is a measly 2 to 3% inflation, which keeps consumers buying durable goods. I guarantee you, if we didn't have inflation, demand would have fallen flat as banks, consumers, and business hoarded money. Explain to me how when the Fed is purchasing 50% of US debt issuance the money isn't getting out into the economy? Or when you see the following graphics with regard to QE1, QE2, and operation Twist. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/how-fed-quietly-bought-1150-sp-points Also, do you really have no idea about the current recession and how it was caused by Fed intervention starting in 2001, which as you say were to "boost inflation and investment, both in the private and public sector," which is what you currently advocate as if it won't have any effect? I feel like it am talking to a regurgitating gnome reading talking points from some "Brainwashed Economics 101". With regard to inflation: Perhaps you should look at earnings reports for McDonalds, Nestle, etc. and see how they are shrinking contents in packages to do exploding costs of basic supplies. Inflation will not be uniform in the economy as resource scarcity varies dramatically, that is why after a very moderate winter energy prices are keeping net inflation numbers down, but if you look across the spectrum, it is there. It just hasn't hit sharply yet as there is a lag between money supply increase and full inflationary effects. Finally, savers are still being destroyed even with the "measly" inflation as "safe" investments right now are at negative yields once inflation is taken into account, even at the "measly" amounts. That is, the "measly" amounts before the money supply expansion effects have even taken effect. The Fed didn't quietly engage in QE 1 and 2, they put out a press release, made public statements, it was all over the news. The problem with Austrians is that they've been predicting hyperinflation for years and years. And it's never happened. There is no hyperinflation, and there will never be. Inflation will remain around 2% into the foreseeable future. Why anyone would listen to you, and your serially wrong economics is beyond comprehension. Why do you believe this shit that keeps getting proved wrong everyday? How much longer are you going to cry wolf on inflation before you have absolutely zero creditability left? | ||
Mango Chicken
55 Posts
May 13 2012 09:28 GMT
#1984
On May 13 2012 12:13 AcuWill wrote: Show nested quote + How about the cheating liars hurting the Republican Party?On May 13 2012 11:40 TheToast wrote: On May 13 2012 07:20 BioNova wrote: The OK GOP convention just went up in flames. Obama wins. Romney vs Paul is shredding the GOP. The chair took a quick motion and second to adjourn the convention. He took a voice vote and the NAYS were over-powering. He adjourned the convention among yelling and shouting and told the delegates they could finish their convention in the parking lot. Results: Single, GOP formulated slate adopted with no ROLL CALL vote as required by Oklahoma state republican party rules. Delegate slate is invalid as rules prohibiting the election of national delegates without a ROLL CALL vote were ignored by the chair. Video @ 25 min in http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/22541812 Echo convention of St Charles Co, Mo. Romney calling on Santorum supporters as proxy forces were still outnumbered and called the convention. A large group of delegates is now reconducting buisness in the parking lot, per the chair's suggestion(sarcasm). Wow terribad. I'm getting quite the laugh. Interesting, but pointless. Electing the representatives via voice vote instead of a roll call vote is frankly a minor infraction, and there's no legal standards preventing them from doing so. And any way you slice it, it really doesn't matter. All the Ron Paul supporters are doing now is hurting the Republican party. This is stupid and pointless. Ron Paul is not going to win the election, anything they're doing at this point that isn't helping Romney is helping Obama. And lol @ the chair's comment about the parking lot, if I were in his shoes I wouldn't even have been that polite to the Ron Paul devotees. As in the ones that don't follow the established rules. Good thing that absolutely EVERYTHING is on video and you can watch to your heart's content and try to deny what I am saying. Look mate, the next generation of Ron Paul is out and he's a fucking dick. The Paul bandwagon is a sinking ship and it's time to get off. See here: (CNN) – Sen. Rand Paul on Friday brushed off Barack Obama's recent reversal on same-sex marriage by saying he didn't think the president's views "could get any gayer." The remarks from the Republican senator from Kentucky scored laughs among those attending an event held by Iowa's Faith and Freedom Coalition, a video uploaded on Saturday to the conservative website "The Iowa Republican" shows. "The president, you know, recently weighed in on marriage. And, you know, he said his views were evolving on marriage," the first-term senator said Friday evening. "Call me cynical, but I wasn't sure that his views on marriage could get any gayer." Paul, who is the son of GOP presidential longshot and Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, made the comments two days after Obama announced that he supported same-sex marriage, which he had previously opposed, while adding he thought the issue should be left up to the states to decide. Rand Paul had been advertised as the coalition's "special guest" for its 12th annual spring event. The organization's website also promoted the presence of Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa and Ralph Reed, who is the chairman of the national Faith and Freedom Coalition. In the remarks captured on video, Paul spoke against abortion as well as same-sex marriage. "I think we're in a spiritual crisis as a country," Paul said, "and I think you're going to need leaders beyond your political leaders." The senator criticized Obama's explanation that the Golden Rule - to treat others how one wants to be treated - and his faith led to his evolved understanding of marriage. The Golden Rule has its roots in biblical verses. "It did bother me though that he used the justification for it in a biblical reference," Paul said. "He said the biblical Golden Rule caused him to be for gay marriage. And I'm like, what version of the Bible is he reading? | ||
AcuWill
United States281 Posts
May 13 2012 20:00 GMT
#1985
On May 13 2012 18:28 Mango Chicken wrote: Show nested quote + On May 13 2012 12:13 AcuWill wrote: On May 13 2012 11:40 TheToast wrote: How about the cheating liars hurting the Republican Party?On May 13 2012 07:20 BioNova wrote: The OK GOP convention just went up in flames. Obama wins. Romney vs Paul is shredding the GOP. The chair took a quick motion and second to adjourn the convention. He took a voice vote and the NAYS were over-powering. He adjourned the convention among yelling and shouting and told the delegates they could finish their convention in the parking lot. Results: Single, GOP formulated slate adopted with no ROLL CALL vote as required by Oklahoma state republican party rules. Delegate slate is invalid as rules prohibiting the election of national delegates without a ROLL CALL vote were ignored by the chair. Video @ 25 min in http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/22541812 Echo convention of St Charles Co, Mo. Romney calling on Santorum supporters as proxy forces were still outnumbered and called the convention. A large group of delegates is now reconducting buisness in the parking lot, per the chair's suggestion(sarcasm). Wow terribad. I'm getting quite the laugh. Interesting, but pointless. Electing the representatives via voice vote instead of a roll call vote is frankly a minor infraction, and there's no legal standards preventing them from doing so. And any way you slice it, it really doesn't matter. All the Ron Paul supporters are doing now is hurting the Republican party. This is stupid and pointless. Ron Paul is not going to win the election, anything they're doing at this point that isn't helping Romney is helping Obama. And lol @ the chair's comment about the parking lot, if I were in his shoes I wouldn't even have been that polite to the Ron Paul devotees. As in the ones that don't follow the established rules. Good thing that absolutely EVERYTHING is on video and you can watch to your heart's content and try to deny what I am saying. Look mate, the next generation of Ron Paul is out and he's a fucking dick. The Paul bandwagon is a sinking ship and it's time to get off. See here: Show nested quote + (CNN) – Sen. Rand Paul on Friday brushed off Barack Obama's recent reversal on same-sex marriage by saying he didn't think the president's views "could get any gayer." The remarks from the Republican senator from Kentucky scored laughs among those attending an event held by Iowa's Faith and Freedom Coalition, a video uploaded on Saturday to the conservative website "The Iowa Republican" shows. "The president, you know, recently weighed in on marriage. And, you know, he said his views were evolving on marriage," the first-term senator said Friday evening. "Call me cynical, but I wasn't sure that his views on marriage could get any gayer." Paul, who is the son of GOP presidential longshot and Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, made the comments two days after Obama announced that he supported same-sex marriage, which he had previously opposed, while adding he thought the issue should be left up to the states to decide. Rand Paul had been advertised as the coalition's "special guest" for its 12th annual spring event. The organization's website also promoted the presence of Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa and Ralph Reed, who is the chairman of the national Faith and Freedom Coalition. In the remarks captured on video, Paul spoke against abortion as well as same-sex marriage. "I think we're in a spiritual crisis as a country," Paul said, "and I think you're going to need leaders beyond your political leaders." The senator criticized Obama's explanation that the Golden Rule - to treat others how one wants to be treated - and his faith led to his evolved understanding of marriage. The Golden Rule has its roots in biblical verses. "It did bother me though that he used the justification for it in a biblical reference," Paul said. "He said the biblical Golden Rule caused him to be for gay marriage. And I'm like, what version of the Bible is he reading? Rand is not the next generation of the Liberty movement. His voting record does not follow the Liberty movement, his personal stances do not, and just because he is Ron Paul's son, DOES NOT mean he is the next Ron Paul or that he will be the next standard bearer of the Liberty movement. | ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
May 13 2012 20:21 GMT
#1986
Republicans must evolve on gay rights or risk political extinction, a top GOP pollster warns leading establishment figures in a revealing new memo. Jan van Lohuizen, who polled for President George W. Bush in 2004, finds that support for gay rights — including same sex marriage — is rising at an accelerated pace among members of all political affiliations. He calls on Republicans to acknowledge the shift in the way they talk about the issue. The memo, reported by various news outlets, recommends that Republicans express their support for “equality under the law as a fundamental principle” because “freedom means freedom for everyone.” Remarkably, Lohuizen advises Republicans to re-frame gay rights as a conservative value. “As people who promote personal responsibility, family values, commitment and stability, and emphasize freedom and limited government we have to recognize that freedom means freedom for everyone,” he advises Republicans to say. “This includes the freedom to decide how you live and to enter into relationships of your choosing, the freedom to live without excessive interference of the regulatory force of government.” Since President Obama announced his support for same sex marriage last Wednesday, Republicans and conservative media have criticized him for political opportunism. But party leaders have shown little interest in making a big issue of it. Source | ||
aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
May 13 2012 20:32 GMT
#1987
On May 14 2012 05:00 AcuWill wrote: Show nested quote + On May 13 2012 18:28 Mango Chicken wrote: On May 13 2012 12:13 AcuWill wrote: On May 13 2012 11:40 TheToast wrote: How about the cheating liars hurting the Republican Party?On May 13 2012 07:20 BioNova wrote: The OK GOP convention just went up in flames. Obama wins. Romney vs Paul is shredding the GOP. The chair took a quick motion and second to adjourn the convention. He took a voice vote and the NAYS were over-powering. He adjourned the convention among yelling and shouting and told the delegates they could finish their convention in the parking lot. Results: Single, GOP formulated slate adopted with no ROLL CALL vote as required by Oklahoma state republican party rules. Delegate slate is invalid as rules prohibiting the election of national delegates without a ROLL CALL vote were ignored by the chair. Video @ 25 min in http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/22541812 Echo convention of St Charles Co, Mo. Romney calling on Santorum supporters as proxy forces were still outnumbered and called the convention. A large group of delegates is now reconducting buisness in the parking lot, per the chair's suggestion(sarcasm). Wow terribad. I'm getting quite the laugh. Interesting, but pointless. Electing the representatives via voice vote instead of a roll call vote is frankly a minor infraction, and there's no legal standards preventing them from doing so. And any way you slice it, it really doesn't matter. All the Ron Paul supporters are doing now is hurting the Republican party. This is stupid and pointless. Ron Paul is not going to win the election, anything they're doing at this point that isn't helping Romney is helping Obama. And lol @ the chair's comment about the parking lot, if I were in his shoes I wouldn't even have been that polite to the Ron Paul devotees. As in the ones that don't follow the established rules. Good thing that absolutely EVERYTHING is on video and you can watch to your heart's content and try to deny what I am saying. Look mate, the next generation of Ron Paul is out and he's a fucking dick. The Paul bandwagon is a sinking ship and it's time to get off. See here: (CNN) – Sen. Rand Paul on Friday brushed off Barack Obama's recent reversal on same-sex marriage by saying he didn't think the president's views "could get any gayer." The remarks from the Republican senator from Kentucky scored laughs among those attending an event held by Iowa's Faith and Freedom Coalition, a video uploaded on Saturday to the conservative website "The Iowa Republican" shows. "The president, you know, recently weighed in on marriage. And, you know, he said his views were evolving on marriage," the first-term senator said Friday evening. "Call me cynical, but I wasn't sure that his views on marriage could get any gayer." Paul, who is the son of GOP presidential longshot and Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, made the comments two days after Obama announced that he supported same-sex marriage, which he had previously opposed, while adding he thought the issue should be left up to the states to decide. Rand Paul had been advertised as the coalition's "special guest" for its 12th annual spring event. The organization's website also promoted the presence of Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa and Ralph Reed, who is the chairman of the national Faith and Freedom Coalition. In the remarks captured on video, Paul spoke against abortion as well as same-sex marriage. "I think we're in a spiritual crisis as a country," Paul said, "and I think you're going to need leaders beyond your political leaders." The senator criticized Obama's explanation that the Golden Rule - to treat others how one wants to be treated - and his faith led to his evolved understanding of marriage. The Golden Rule has its roots in biblical verses. "It did bother me though that he used the justification for it in a biblical reference," Paul said. "He said the biblical Golden Rule caused him to be for gay marriage. And I'm like, what version of the Bible is he reading? Rand is not the next generation of the Liberty movement. His voting record does not follow the Liberty movement, his personal stances do not, and just because he is Ron Paul's son, DOES NOT mean he is the next Ron Paul or that he will be the next standard bearer of the Liberty movement. At least we agree on something. On May 14 2012 05:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Show nested quote + Republicans must evolve on gay rights or risk political extinction, a top GOP pollster warns leading establishment figures in a revealing new memo. Jan van Lohuizen, who polled for President George W. Bush in 2004, finds that support for gay rights — including same sex marriage — is rising at an accelerated pace among members of all political affiliations. He calls on Republicans to acknowledge the shift in the way they talk about the issue. The memo, reported by various news outlets, recommends that Republicans express their support for “equality under the law as a fundamental principle” because “freedom means freedom for everyone.” Remarkably, Lohuizen advises Republicans to re-frame gay rights as a conservative value. “As people who promote personal responsibility, family values, commitment and stability, and emphasize freedom and limited government we have to recognize that freedom means freedom for everyone,” he advises Republicans to say. “This includes the freedom to decide how you live and to enter into relationships of your choosing, the freedom to live without excessive interference of the regulatory force of government.” Since President Obama announced his support for same sex marriage last Wednesday, Republicans and conservative media have criticized him for political opportunism. But party leaders have shown little interest in making a big issue of it. Source This issue is somewhat confusing. On one hand, religious institutions are very much against it, and are able to mobilize quite a few people to vote in measures against it. On the other hand, it is a long term loss. Being too entrenched on this position will leave them in a spot that will make it difficult to maintain strong candidates for 2014/2016. | ||
aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
May 14 2012 02:45 GMT
#1988
| ||
forgottendreams
United States1771 Posts
May 14 2012 04:49 GMT
#1989
On May 14 2012 11:45 aksfjh wrote: With all this drug cartel stuff going on in Mexico, I wish either party would take a stance to extend more support to Mexico. How exactly? Send money and the public gets enraged, send more ATF agents that might die (and would) and the public gets enraged, ban assault weapons or step up firearm monitering or restrictions by the borders and the public and dealers get enraged. It's just an endless war fueled by simple supply and demand. All that could be done at this point is for the Mexican gov. to christen and ally with a major cartel to strike deals and this is rumored to be happening now for election purposes. | ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
May 14 2012 14:35 GMT
#1990
Mainstream Republicans afraid Ron Paul’s steady accumulation of delegates will cause chaos at their national convention in Tampa just received a terrifying preview of what a worst-case scenario might look like. In Oklahoma on Saturday, Paul supporters and Romney supporters reportedly came to blows as the Paul side fell short of electing their slate of delegates amid cries of foul play, including the use of a voice vote instead of a more painstaking roll call to decide the outcome. Speaking at the event, Romney surrogates Tim Pawlenty and the state’s own governor, Mary Fallin, drew jeers. At the state convention in Arizona, also this weekend, the presumptive nominee’s son, Josh Romney, was booed off the stage by Paul supporters, some of whom derided his father as “the white Obama.” Source Also I have to reply to a certain discussion a dozen or so pages ago about Washington and formation of political parties: + Show Spoiler + It was the result of Jefferson and Hamilton and the role, or strength of government. Washington favored Hamilton's ideas, but not fully. Besides political parties are impossible to stop. | ||
TheToast
United States4808 Posts
May 14 2012 14:54 GMT
#1991
I'm sure most of you aren't fond of Limbaugh, but he does provide some insight into the conservative republican base in American. This is from a few months ago on the day after the New Hampshire primary, and I think it's interesting: That to me was the key, where does Ron Paul finish, 'cause anybody can vote, Democrat, Republican, pick up a ballot and go in there and vote. And Rasmussen has some interesting data that I've gotta double-check. But Ron Paul, the majority of people that voted him were not Republican. And in another poll, the percentage of Ron Paul voters who say they will vote for the Republican nominee is... like 80% of Tea Party voters in New Hampshire said no matter who the Republican nominee is they're voting for it. The Ron Paul number is 40%. Now, as I say, I've gotta double confirm. It's ostensibly Rasmussen and we're double-checking this, but what I know so far, or what I've been told is that Ron Paul supporters, 40% say they would vote for the Republican nominee, 23% said they'd vote for Obama, and 31% of Ron Paul voters said they would vote third party. So the Ron Paul voters cannot be counted on, and most of Huntsman's voters and most of Paul's voters were Democrats who walked into the New Hampshire primary, picked up a Republican ballot, also according to this polling data. Or maybe not majority. I don't have it right in front of me but it's close. It's a very high -- since I brought it up, let me see if I've got it in this particular stack. I'll find it. It's nothing that you don't know. Here we go. It's the exit polling data from Fox, and it is on political matters, "Do you consider yourself very liberal, somewhat liberal, moderate, somewhat conservative, very conservative?" You go to Ron Paul, 33% of his voters, according to exit polls, were somewhat liberal; 24% were moderate; 0 were very liberal. So 57% of the voters that voted for Ron Paul were not Republican conservatives. And that's one of the things that I wanted to see because with this big push -- what is happening here, the final push now that's on to get Romney the nomination, Newt and Perry, with their attacks, have made it impossible to defend them. .... A lot of his supporters are simply college kids who like his ideas on liberalizing drug laws. A lot of his supporters are young college kids who like his idea on gay rights. You know, they're the young idealists who have only their own personal interests here at stake, and he's out there representing it. Plus there is the awareness on the part of some Ron Paul voters that he's the giant monkey wrench and they enjoy playing that role. Original Article (edited slightly) | ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
May 14 2012 14:56 GMT
#1992
| ||
TheToast
United States4808 Posts
May 14 2012 15:02 GMT
#1993
On May 14 2012 23:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: I don't think Limbaugh represent the majority of the Republican base I think he just scares the shit out of the GOP heads. I said majority of the conservative Republican base. There's a difference there. Either way, I think his comments provide some good insight to how many Republicans see Paul, and why his supporters causing trouble doesn't necessarily mean anything. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42339 Posts
May 14 2012 15:10 GMT
#1994
On May 13 2012 18:28 Mango Chicken wrote: Look mate, the next generation of Ron Paul is out and he's a fucking dick. The Paul bandwagon is a sinking ship and it's time to get off. See here: Show nested quote + (CNN) – Sen. Rand Paul on Friday brushed off Barack Obama's recent reversal on same-sex marriage by saying he didn't think the president's views "could get any gayer." The remarks from the Republican senator from Kentucky scored laughs among those attending an event held by Iowa's Faith and Freedom Coalition, a video uploaded on Saturday to the conservative website "The Iowa Republican" shows. "The president, you know, recently weighed in on marriage. And, you know, he said his views were evolving on marriage," the first-term senator said Friday evening. "Call me cynical, but I wasn't sure that his views on marriage could get any gayer." Paul, who is the son of GOP presidential longshot and Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, made the comments two days after Obama announced that he supported same-sex marriage, which he had previously opposed, while adding he thought the issue should be left up to the states to decide. Rand Paul had been advertised as the coalition's "special guest" for its 12th annual spring event. The organization's website also promoted the presence of Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa and Ralph Reed, who is the chairman of the national Faith and Freedom Coalition. In the remarks captured on video, Paul spoke against abortion as well as same-sex marriage. "I think we're in a spiritual crisis as a country," Paul said, "and I think you're going to need leaders beyond your political leaders." The senator criticized Obama's explanation that the Golden Rule - to treat others how one wants to be treated - and his faith led to his evolved understanding of marriage. The Golden Rule has its roots in biblical verses. "It did bother me though that he used the justification for it in a biblical reference," Paul said. "He said the biblical Golden Rule caused him to be for gay marriage. And I'm like, what version of the Bible is he reading? This guy sounds like a jackass. As if calling something bad "gay" wasn't politically insensitive enough. Also, I had to laugh out loud at the idea that the Golden Rule has its roots in the Bible. As if it already wasn't well-established before Christianity came around -____- | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42339 Posts
May 14 2012 15:11 GMT
#1995
| ||
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
May 14 2012 16:25 GMT
#1996
| ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
May 14 2012 17:36 GMT
#1997
Mainstream Republicans afraid Ron Paul’s steady accumulation of delegates will cause chaos at their national convention in Tampa just received a terrifying preview of what a worst-case scenario might look like. In Oklahoma on Saturday, Paul supporters and Romney supporters reportedly came to blows as the Paul side fell short of electing their slate of delegates amid cries of foul play, including the use of a voice vote instead of a more painstaking roll call to decide the outcome. Speaking at the event, Romney surrogates Tim Pawlenty and the state’s own governor, Mary Fallin, drew jeers. At the state convention in Arizona, also this weekend, the presumptive nominee’s son, Josh Romney, was booed off the stage by Paul supporters, some of whom derided his father as “the white Obama.” At this point it’s way too late to keep Paul from having a sizable presence at the Republican National Convention, and likely control of enough state delegations to put his name up for a floor vote against Romney. But it’s still an open question just what these delegates and other Paul activists planning events for the national convention will do when they actually get there. Paul himself has bristled at the suggestion that a convention with a substantial presence of supporters would be a chaotic affair, even while he has endorsed their continued efforts to score delegates. “It certainly isn’t for the reason of disrupting the convention,” Paul told CNN last week. He said he was following his current strategy because “moving an agenda is very important and to do that we need to maximize the number of delegates that we have.” Source | ||
TheToast
United States4808 Posts
May 14 2012 18:11 GMT
#1998
| ||
Thenerf
United States258 Posts
May 14 2012 18:29 GMT
#1999
On May 14 2012 11:45 aksfjh wrote: With all this drug cartel stuff going on in Mexico, I wish either party would take a stance to extend more support to Mexico. Sending support to mexico is about a politically viable as sending support to the united states for Detroit or Balitmore. It would be career suicide for any politicians involved. In Mexico they are quite motivated(at least publically) to get their shit together by their own merits. | ||
Saryph
United States1955 Posts
May 14 2012 18:59 GMT
#2000
Ron Paul is shutting down all operations in upcoming primary states, dramatically scaling back his campaign due to a lack of resources.... Source I wonder how this victory by Paul will be explained by the diehards in this thread. | ||
| ||
ESL Open Cup
Asia Open Cup #231
[ Submit Event ] |
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Shuttle 6049 Dota 2Calm 2876 Pusan 1415 firebathero 1404 Jaedong 722 GoRush 307 Snow 303 Sharp 298 Larva 282 Light 282 [ Show more ] Counter-Strike Other Games Organizations StarCraft: Brood War StarCraft 2 Other Games StarCraft: Brood War StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War
StarCraft 2 • Berry_CruncH107 StarCraft: Brood War• Gussbus • Migwel • AfreecaTV YouTube • aXEnki • Poblha • intothetv • Kozan • IndyKCrew • LaughNgamez Trovo • Laughngamez YouTube League of Legends |
ESL Open Cup
ESL Open Cup
Replay Cast
Replay Cast
GSL Code S
Maru vs soO
Cure vs ByuN
Online Event
SC2's Safe House
Sparkling Tuna Cup
SC2's Safe House
ESL Open Cup
|
|