cant wait to see all the rankings and results
SQ Leaderboard by Region - Page 2
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jjhchsc2
Korea (South)2393 Posts
cant wait to see all the rankings and results | ||
monkeycid
Sweden44 Posts
Oh hell yes. More stuff like this, please! While I'm not quite sure how to interpret the data, it is intriguing - especially the protoss bit. Very well-written and argued, with some very healthy skepticism towards drawing any conclusions at this stage. AAAAAAA++++++ would read again | ||
whatthefat
United States918 Posts
On October 29 2011 11:13 Imperium11 wrote: In addition to Pokebunny's comment above about Protoss intentionally overmaking gates and banking resources, it should be noted that there is a natural buildup of resources during each warpgate cooldown, resulting in a lower SQ even were the Protoss to not overmake gates. I also would like to point out that this measures only the spending of money, not the efficacy of that spending. As far as I understand it, a player poorly macroing and queuing up several units would receive a high SQ because their money was being spent, even if it was not being done in a productive way. Edit: misquote Well, let's remember that all the races score equally well on SQ for Bronze through Grandmaster (top 100). It's only at this extremely high level that I'm seeing any racial differences (and they aren't yet confirmed). And yes, there are ways to 'game' SQ, e.g., building way too many production facilities for your income, or queuing like crazy. But even still, on average Bronze players score worse than Silver players, who score worse than Gold players, and so on. So it still seems to be a pretty good metric for assessing your spending ability. But it shouldn't be viewed in complete isolation - of course if you are doing something else terrible, like queuing all the time, you need to address that. I don't think any pro players are doing that though. Once we have more data we can figure out whether the SQ needs to be slightly adjusted for race at the pro level - or just compared within races as Whitewing suggested. | ||
EtohEtoh
Canada669 Posts
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Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
This clearly demonstrates protoss having more unspent. I think it is purely a result of the race mechanics. It could probably be factored out by subtracting a certain 10 factor of unspent minerals from protoss. If you look at enough averages I'm pretty sure you could accurately calculate what the amount subtracted should be. Edit: My bad thought that was by race. Here it is, it's still close but there are a lot of green dots above the rest. That could be a reflection of skill or race mechanics. You can almost see on this chart when warp finishes the toss unspent jumps. OP is obviously going to be 10x better at drawing an accurate conclusion than I. But excellent post! and thank you! Also for consideration is that once a zerg maxes they are going to stack like crazy. So @ 200 supply the unspent really shouldn't be counted. (if it is) | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
SPOTLIGHT | ||
Imperium11
United States279 Posts
On October 29 2011 11:21 whatthefat wrote: Well, let's remember that all the races score equally well on SQ for Bronze through Grandmaster (top 100). It's only at this extremely high level that I'm seeing any racial differences (and they aren't yet confirmed). And yes, there are ways to 'game' SQ, e.g., building way too many production facilities for your income, or queuing like crazy. But even still, on average Bronze players score worse than Silver players, who score worse than Gold players, and so on. So it still seems to be a pretty good metric for assessing your spending ability. But it shouldn't be viewed in complete isolation - of course if you are doing something else terrible, like queuing all the time, you need to address that. I don't think any pro players are doing that though. Once we have more data we can figure out whether the SQ needs to be slightly adjusted for race at the pro level - or just compared within races as Whitewing suggested. These are some fair points. I agree that on the whole SQ seems to be a decent metric of skill measurement, as your correlation with increasing league level shows. I just also think it is good to keep these inherent flaws in mind as they can explain unexpected variance (such as already described above regarding Goody). | ||
Tantaburs
Canada1825 Posts
1. My macro is alot better then i thought it was with a SQ of 80 over 15 games 2. I macro like a beat when i proxy gate =P average proxy gate SQ 92 | ||
whatthefat
United States918 Posts
On October 29 2011 11:35 Reborn8u wrote: Protoss is of course going to have higher unspent, zergs and terrans can make 50 mineral units. So all game long a protoss player would have to wait for at least 100 before he can spend it. Not only that but because of warp cycles, protoss is always going to be stacking up minerals in between cycles. Where a zerg can constantly spend if he has larva and a terran can cue units. All of this artificially inflates a protoss players average unspent resources. Especially when you look at the cost of stalkers, colossus, immortals compared to anything terran or zerg are producing in the mid game. Protoss has to let more pile up before it gets spent. On top of that most protoss upgrades and tech structures are 2x the cost of terran or zergs. This clearly demonstrates protoss having more unspent. I think it is purely a result of the race mechanics. + Show Spoiler + Please note that the graph colors correspond to the graph above that, i.e., green = masters, red = top 100, blue = top 10. It's not showing races - they end up pretty much on top of each other (you can actually see the top 100 plot by race in the original SQ thread). Sorry, I should have made that clear in the OP - I'll edit now. | ||
whatthefat
United States918 Posts
On October 29 2011 11:35 heyoka wrote: Everything you post is amazing, great stuff SPOTLIGHT <3 Thanks! | ||
Childplay
Canada263 Posts
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ReturnStroke
United States801 Posts
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KiF1rE
United States964 Posts
when averaging games with builds ive refined and feel comfortable with my sq averages at 92 lol... and ive been stuck in master =/ On October 29 2011 11:01 Pokebunny wrote: Great article. Protoss can be explained by the fact that it is the only race where it's sometimes actually good to overmake warp gates and bank resources. I suspect that is why we see lower protoss SQ especially in tournaments; planned strategies probably take the into plan more than ladder strategies, and the very best protoss are more likely to implement this often. and then this is something ive actually changed instead of spending it instantly ive been trying to bank a little more and make better decisions, my sq dropped and my MMR went up to the point i got paired with you lol...though its awkward yet i think your so right. i hope the next time i get you on the ladder i dont choke =P | ||
Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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Amornthep
Singapore2605 Posts
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Sniper937
Canada23 Posts
On October 29 2011 10:50 MonkSEA wrote: I think the warpgate mechanic might actually be hindering Protoss' SQ, but very nice read. I'm pretty surprised at Bombers SQ and Ret's as well. this. a lot of players like to use all their warp gates at once to "save apm" so during the cool down the resources pile up. | ||
GhostFall
United States830 Posts
For example, if there are 2 units queued up, not being built, than the Total Queue Time counter would be going up by 2 a second. Then if Blizzard could also reveal game length in the statistics, you could make a similiar SQ, for queue time. | ||
Verator
United States283 Posts
Additionally, there has to be a reasonable web application or tool which people can submit their own data into quickly, to increase the sample size significantly. | ||
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