EPTNow I feel even worse about killing you
A great many thanks for hosting this :D
I also will not be able to type up monster posts as much since I'm on break, but I shall be active.
[GG] Team Liquid Mafia - Resurrection
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
Now I feel even worse about killing you A great many thanks for hosting this :D I also will not be able to type up monster posts as much since I'm on break, but I shall be active. | ||
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On December 14 2008 03:56 Hyperbola wrote: SIGN ME UP! please. And can you mix it up? Add more roles? Just so it would not be the same thing as other games. There are only so many roles in mafia that aren't stupid. This game is different from all but mafia 3 in the sense that there are no officeholders already. If BC truly wants a different game then he could go the route of no role reveal upon death or no clues; roles have less of an effect upon difference than those two mechanisms. | ||
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The fact that everyone is taking this accusation at face value and bandwagoning me does not show a healthy minded town. I got accused out of nowhere and only one person questions these proceedings. Everyone is just bandwagoning from one target to another on the flimsiest of reasons. Killing Folca for last game is just dumb. Clues on day 1 are not a sufficient reason to kill Scar, but at the same time, posting a screenshot doesn't prove anything. Isn't that right, shallow[bay]? Then people voted for some random zombie who can equally be a clueless mafia or clueless townie. And now everyone jumps on me once I'm 'supposedly' guilty. As if anything can be proven this early. Quit the bandwagoning (folca->scar->veno-> me all in 1 day seriously lol) and think critically. Only 1 person so far is even questioning what's going on and everyone just dismisses him. This would normally be a battle of arguing/my word vs Ace's. However, the fact that he say's he was informed I was a mafia from someone else makes this considerably more complex than a kill one then kill the other if wrong situation. Consider the two likely scenarios: 1) I am mafia, Ace and the DT are legit. Lynching me straight up is best case scenario. 2) I am innocent, and either Ace or the 'DT' are mafia. Here lynching me immediately puts us in a big hole. Ace can of course call out the 'DT' as mafia, but Ace could easily be mafia yourself fingering an innocent person. Or the mafia member posing as 'DT' could argue to get Ace killed. Thus the town gets considerably behind and either loses two of it's most valuable thinkers for 1 mafia (great great trade for them) or loses 1 analyst for 1 mafia, which is still a pretty poor trade for the town considering mafia KP is rounded up. The point is that except for option 1 the town is going to be stuck in a very messy situation that will take several days to extricate fully and could potentially result in myself and Ace both being innocent and dying from the town itself. Or just as bad, I turn up innocent, Ace as mafia gets the town to kill the DT who didn't check Ace first and wastes two days of lynching again. Or Ace can prioritize his survival and kill the DT in the night. If you blindly rush the gun here you are betting on the fact that I am mafia and are way behind if I turn up innocent. Thus I propose an offshoot of Alventenie's plan from game 3. Let us both live. Force the mafia to make a decision of who to kill. Unlike in Alventenie's plan, I cannot offer anything more than being a townie. But I am an exceedingly valuable townie in my analyses and plans, as the inner circle people last game can attest to (which is likely why I was fingered for this). And also analysis/plans are very easy to check on to see if I uphold myself logically as I consistently have before. If I don't hold myself accountable to this, then bam dead. The same goes for Ace and the results of this 'alleged' DT too. Therefore, give us an extension till tomorrow to figure out a better target BC. I can stay up for an hour or so to debate but then I must sleep. Edit: Finished an incomplete sentence (added 'argue to get Ace killed. ' in paragraph 2) ) | ||
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On December 15 2008 16:01 Scaramanga wrote: Sorry ver, heres how it goes, your gonna get lynched tonight and if you flip green/blue then i can vouch for ace and then we lynch the fake dt, we traded you for a mafia, the better situation is that you are mafia, then we have a hidden dt with someone to speak and we can set some shit up, anyhow your gonna get lynched first night Its odd that right after we get a spot of good luck you come out of no where to help ver, you guys havent really helped each other so why are you comming out all of a sudden in defence?, i dont see whats wrong with this plan, we get either get 1 mafia and a dt with a mouthpeice or we get 1 mafia dead for 1 townie, i'll take either of these if you want me to re screen im happy to do so What i think is weird is that you tried previously to get people to continue to vote for me even though i have proved without a doubt that im a townie, then you come to attack a plan that gets us at least 1 mafia Yes you proved yourself without a doubt with a PICTURE. I don't possibly understand how you, or anyone else can delude themselves into thinking that a picture of a pm proves that you are innocent. All that does is convince brainless townies, just as this did (shallow was mafia, dragoon townie). http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3694/sillymafiafj7.png I'm not saying your guilty, as there are reasons for you posting that either as mafia or townie. But it sure is nowhere near proof of innocence. Your picture is just as credible as you 'vouching' for Ace if I turn up innocent. Try better next time. @ Camlito: Yeah I agree that I am one of the important people to discover right away and this isn't some low probability event. However, I a) haven't posted a thing and b) the 'DT,' rather than checking the more active/better/important Ace, instead checks me and pms Ace on blind trust. You know how fishy that sounds? | ||
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I wouldn't have minded being lynched if we debated it out and I got outargued by Ace or something and ended up dying. If that's how the game goes so be it. But I barely get to post my defense because the game started super fast without warning, people start realizing the flaws in the argument against me (which there are, whether I am mafia or not this is fact), and I get lynched before my side has any time to convince the bandwagoners. .... | ||
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But never fear, 0zc3c can still be the official Town Mascot. We still need a peanut gallery for the dead! As it stands now only Camlito and I are mocking everyone. edit: Wouldn't it be cool to decide on open townie job descriptions? Ace can be the 'handler of stupidity' Caller can be the 'town badass' Chaoser can be the 'misled soul' Showtime! could be the 'wise loner' Ver can be the 'wanted man' etc! (this game is hilariously awesome) | ||
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Our original plans kinda got shot very fast but apparently that blue list was enough to do it. Capek/Attackzerg dying over Fishball was hilarious though, as I'm pretty sure Fishball would've died if the two mafia stayed silent. And Ace, was this true, or was it more of the inner circle trying to fool the mafia by posting more random garbage? On December 19 2008 08:17 Ace wrote: lol yea. I told everyone to just forget giving me too much info since I'm hoping it builds trust that way. Mafia put me in a box that I can't get out of. I don't know who's idea it was but going I gotta give em credit - it paid off. I can't even trust the people giving me info because of it 0zc3c you are the true town mascot I loved your posts. Let's see my thoughts on the balance: -Votelists are ridiculously overpowered, especially that non-voting one. Actually I do think it's a good idea to kill the inactive mafia; it's just it was sprung without knowledge so half the mafia got stuck on that one haha. But yeah votelists need to be restricted to 1 per DT at best. We actually had some plans to deal with them but they weren't ever used, so I don't think they are *that* bad as mafia can do some (risky/tough) things to counter them. -Something to make detectives not absolute (miller/godfather) would be great; just to give the possibility that the DT might be wrong. But I am heavily biased on this for obvious reasons  -3 life veterans with 5 KP are essentially invincible. In my original plan I had an entire section dedicated to dealing with Ace but it was never practical to give up highly likely blue hits to finish him fully. -I feel that the games need to be restricted, at least mostly (like 5 or so slots for newcomers maybe), to limit inactivity which hurts the town extremely unfairly. We did have a couple inactive mafia but they were much less important then the 10 or so inactive/low activity townies and mafia winning this way was really stupid. So far the only game out of the 5 that hasn't been wrecked by inactives was mafia 3 where...there was a veterans only signup limit. -Silencer is too good. While Ace originally stayed alive because veterans were so powerful, the fact that the mafia were able to shut him up permanently (or essentially that; 3 rounds or whatever is a really long time) was really dumb. Silencer should have extremely few uses; either 1 or 2 and it can't be used on the same person. And I'm kinda leery about the silencer adding to the mafia's KP as that helped us a ton too. It might just be better if he remained as a 'townie wanting mafia to win.' -Blues need to learn how to play their roles better. Unfortunately the game creator can't balance this but seriously it's a huge deal :/ Don't take this as criticism, just ways to improve the next one. BC definitely did a good job balancing and it was far better than Chuiu's mafia 3 which horribly favored town. | ||
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Night 1- Ver (hit) Night 2- Spike (miss) Day 3- Capek vigied (hit) Night 3- AttackZerg (hit) Day 4- Dimnsab vigied (hit) Night 4- Kdog (miss) 4/6 is really good tbh, especially since the misshits were only green townies. Although part of that was due to Capek/Attackzerg REALLY messing up, 4/6 is simply great. Everything after that delved into inactivity+imbavotelistigotyou land. This blows how we did last game out of the water, compares favorably with mafia 2, is roughly even with mafia 3 (6/8), and let's not talk about mafia 1 heh. I still disagree with Camlito that the medics should have gotten a ton of saves. Obviously who they did save was TERRIBLE but in days 2/3 the medics a) have no direct leadership and have to guess who the others would save b) have no idea what kind of targeting the mafia is doing c) have no idea how much the mafia knows. I think that Ace, Showtime, and Hyperbola would've been saved if there were good medics, but anything beyond that is a bit of a stretch. I mean yeah, a good medic could've figured out that SA was a blue, and a really smart one would've known that Camlito was DT, but would they risk saving those people when it's unlikely the mafia would know that? Last game we had central control of at least a couple medics but we still had no idea how the mafia were aiming until it was too late. In mafia 3 the mafia aimed for all the inactive townies. This game we followed a probable blue list. That became apparent after day 2 (or people chalking it up to luck/infiltration lol) but at that point they also started to deviate from that list with the (bad) double hit on Caller and going for active greens later. I do agree with Camlito though that both sides are potentially overpowered, and like with a mayor/pardonner setup, it can swing violently towards one or the other depending on how things played out. This game I felt actually was a good balance, since the DTs/vigis were really accurate while the mafia was too but we were lucky it came this close. It came down to losing me on day 1 vs inactivity as the twin deciding blows and the latter won out (barely). I think that overall there needs to be less of a range on that scale, cutting down KP and DT power and not deciding the game so much by who the mafia kills on the first few days. Just like in the last game, everything rests upon those first few nights and that's not good. Otherwise, we need some better blues, and not just actionwise. It's been two games in a row now that the blues got raped by pure behavior analysis by 3 different people. Seriously, you guys have to realize that there are enough smart people here who will see through the 'I'm blue so I should try to be active while lying low so the mafia doesn't hit me.' DOESN'T WORK NO SIR. Time to think up ideas for future games and to get some lists down. If anyone has any thoughts on how to make future games better it'd be great if you could post it. We're in this together! Edit: Why on earth is this in sports & games. I'm positive this led to decreased inactivity for a number of people who couldn't even find the thread for a few days. I remember decaf came in late because of this; naturally this effects the wishy washy people the most (semi-inactives who don't care as much) but it still does hurt overall activity and I'd recommend it go back in general. Simple thing but it might help a fair bit. | ||
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On December 28 2008 06:15 Qatol wrote: Ver, I'd like to point out that only 1 vigi hit going through on night 2 kinda messed up the killing power of the town really badly. I thought that was the worst mistake the town made all game. I agree that the kills themselves were pretty strong, however we had 2 more misses and 1 more hit with the bomber/ last vigi hit. And remember, all of the lists we had were 50% or better. I don't think a 5/9 is really that amazing because of that. I mean, my strategy early was to check small lists so we could try and get some obvious targets for the mafia/medics to deal with (hence checking the folca/ scaramanga lists) and then do a listcheck on a big list, leaning towards the no vote day 1 list because it had the best chance of being really good for us. This worked better than I ever imagined it would, and I don't think our kills really reflected that. Yeah agree that the vigi double stack was a big error but it would've been worse for the town since I'm pretty sure Fishball would've been hit instead of dimnsab later on lol. I thought your list targets were great and normally would've won the game; no qualms there. I didn't want to add in anything after day 4 since the results would be skewed with you guys having gotten the wrong end of the 5/9 list first because the game ended before you killed the rest. | ||
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On December 28 2008 06:43 Qatol wrote: Thanks, I figured if I managed to fool Ver early on I had it made at least for a little while. I thought I was pretty much golden when Caller sent me a PM of a conversation between himself and Ver somewhere along these lines: (I'm not going to find it, I got like 280 PMs from this game and I'm not looking through them all) Ver: Now that you have come out as a DT, it kinda makes sense why I died so quickly. Caller: ^^ the person you last expect to be DT is DT Ver: FUCK I thought Qatol was townie! After that I just kinda slowly "scaled back my interest" as the game went along, posting less and less and eventually not even voting any more. However, I stayed pretty active behind the scenes, jumping from voice to voice and trying to keep a circle of 3 other players. The thing I was most worried about was that you would silence Ace and kill caller and scaramanga together. At that point I didn't really have many alternatives for people to go talk to. Amusingly, one of the higher people on that last was Clazziquai because Scar was so convinced that he was a vet. Yeah Qatol did amazing. Not only did he keep himself off a list he likely would've been on but he also chose some great votelists and did a ton of damage. Here is the pm's sent from me/caller and me/qatol (warning extremely hilarious) + Show Spoiler [Qatol and me] + Haha it's ok. You can't help what role you got. Sucks that you didn't really get a chance to play this time though. Oh well, I guess we can try to team up next time. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Sorry :/ I wanted to make up to you getting screwed over last time by me but I guess it's not meant to be so the moment I got mafia. At least this premature lynch garbage saved you from my attempts at manipulation ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Ok so I'm trying to think up a way to defend you in the thread but honestly nothing is coming to mind that hasn't already been said. I think the argument might have just become too complex for me haha. It seems like every hour another layer of complexity is added to the argument. Dunno, I guess the thread is lively at least. Anyways, do you have any more leads on potential mafiosos? ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I'm still writing up my post. I had just checked in today (which is why I havent responded to you). As for Caller, he is acting like he did last game. However, this is strange because at the end of last game he told me specifically in PM that he would stay silent like Plexa does in order to keep safe/get later analysis. So it's weird that he's breaking with that. But it's too early to say anything for sure. Keep him on the watchlist. I'll pm you with stuff after I finish my defense. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Yeah this "DT says vote for Ver" thing seems so fishy and out of the blue. I guess I could post a list of suspects for you if you die. Or we can do some analysis now if we work quickly. What do you think about Caller as a suspect? It seems to me like he is trying to be VERY active in posting analysis but there just isn't anything to really analyze in 1 post (especially since it looks like the clues are going to be individual sentences or something). It seems to me that this analysis is pretty likely to be fake. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I would certainly be up for doing this, as I too feel bad about what happened last game. It seems that I have some annoying matters to take care of first though sigh ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Ok so new mafia game without a fake list from ShadowDrgn naming me as a mafia. Want to try and team up to do some analysis/ bounce around ideas? + Show Spoiler [Caller and me] + hahaha you should see me when im mafia ^^ here's what happened. i'm chilling, thinking im going to get myself owned like i did in mafia 3 (where i died first turn lol) then scaramanga approaches me, overenthusiastic as usual, and is like yo qatol just told me and ace that ver is red i was like WTF and then i was like sup qatol and qatol was like goddamit scaramanga gave me away again then i was like hmm i should be quiet so i shut up and let ace announce to everybody that u were scummy then i faked inactive for a bit then i was like hmm they killed two of our dts hmm then i "leaked" data to make it seem like i knew what i was talking about then i decided to fake claim to get them to suicide me i did it ostenibly so i could get medic support i told all the medics that i have a medic protecting me so none of them are protecting me tonight. hopefully mafia is stupid and sends suicide bomber hahaha ----------------------------------------- Original Message: rofl what everything makes no sense now. It seems so random for Ace to say 'a little birdie' unless you told him to or something. But that would've meant you and Ace were in communication before that happened BUT you never pmed me at all. I was inactive for a bit (half faking half real) and didn't post. drats i thought i had it all figured out. so did camlito pm ace or this other dt or did they both? And qatol is the real DT? holy crap he played me so hard. He sent me a message asking to work together, then when I responded before I defended myself he said he didn't know how to defend me. ZiZi yO A rather nice play you did btw. While I thought you/ace arguing in public was fake your roleclaim fit after Ace did his. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: lololololol well you're dead right so you better not be telling nobody but i'm faking it hahahahaha the real dt is our favorite townie that was on shadowdrgn's list from last game if u break rules... well... yeah... but still lololol ----------------------------------------- Original Message: You rolechecked me right? Why did you rolecheck me over Ace and then pm Ace of all people? I thought Ace was a DT faking that 'little birdie' the entire time since that's such a bizarre risk to take. But then again you're the only person that uses 'little birdie' which Ace used when he revealed me so it makes sense HMM WHY DIDNT I SEE THAT EARLIER. Ohhh man if all 3 dts died first night Ace would've been lynched day 2 lol Ah well I still found out camlito ^_^ LOL I got owned so hard | ||
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