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United States3824 Posts
In order to actually contribute something useful to TL, I've decided that it may be time for me to take on an SC research project. Earlier today I posted a question about rallying units and I got to thinking while I was practicing it that it felt incredibly foreign to use the F keys to rally buildings. Then I got to thinking, despite my best efforts, about answering this question:
If there is a correct way to type, why can't there be a correct way to use a keyboard in SC?"
This idea isn't of course to find the one way that everyone should play SC. The keyboard itself is set up to be a two-handed instrument so any attempt to use it with one hand is going to be imperfect. But while everyone uses the keyboard differently, we all probably do things somewhat similarly. Now people have obviously made hotkey threads before and whatnot bu I hope to go a lot further with this project. I want to include generalized styles of play with pictures (something that hasn't shown up before) weight pros and cons etc. While there is no one right way to keyboard there is deffinetly some wrong ways to do it. The goal of this project is to clear up that ambiguity.
Remember the goal here is to be descriptive not perscriptive.
What I would like to request from the community now is anything that you feel would be important for an in depth guide on keyboarding, much like Razer's one for mice use. If you have an idea feel free to post it in this forum, don't feel like you need to develop it at all I can do the research and whatnot. If you feel like you have a fully formed idea about a style in your mind I would happily inculde it in the guide and cite you. However it would be better if you PM me with that so that we can keep all of the full ideas in one place.
The timeline on this is preferably two weeks, that is to have the project uploaded by the 21st. That way people can look it over while they are on Thanksgiving break and hopefully be able to implement some of the strategies that we come up with.
Thanks.
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I think your premise is a bit flawed. There isn't a correct way to type, for example. There is both dvorak and qwerty styles, and each have their benefits.
Anyway, about your keyboard theorycrafting, I think a lot of it depends on keyboard size in comparison to hand size, and the mouse speed of the player. People who can reliably click fast and accurately and maintain a high level of efficiency can (in theory) not even need the keyboard (hi, savior!). I think that players who use a lot of mouse control (I think this is often Terran players, especially when microing m&m), would use hotkeys 1-4 or even 5 for military units, because it is the closest to where you normally hold your hand on the keyboard, and there is less of a reach to quickly select units. The 'a' and 't' key and F2-4 are also close by, providing an additional benefit.
Some things to note is what each player considers important. For example, as zerg, do you hotkey all of your hatcheries, or only partially, or none at all? Also to keep in mind for zerg is that when using hotkeys for macro, you always have to use the 's' key to select larvae before selecting the unit. Therefore, it is usually less efficient to hotkey hatcheries starting a 9 or 0, because of the distance involved. Also about macro, the difference between a macro and micro player could make a huge difference in hotkeys but I can't really say for certain, because I'm not very good at either.
Basically, I think it comes down to what a player thinks is most important to have readily available. Also, I don't think PMing you with ideas is the best solution. If this thread isn't bumped with replies, more people will miss it, and less people will PM you with comments. Also, if things get posted rather than PMed, there's a public discussion on what is a good idea and why, and what is a bad idea and why. Also, if something bad happens to you (like a ban, or getting hit by a bus, or getting laid and ditching starcraft), nobody would have any keyboard theorycrafting.
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United States3824 Posts
Hey as an update, I was looking through some of the old threads (and I mean old old) and I noticed that some people play left hand mouse, right hand keyboard. Does anyone that is still around care to comment on that. I would hate to leave that out of the writeup.
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nada looks like this in bwchart:
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111
-----------222222222222222222222222222222222
3333333333333333333333333333333333333333
-------------------444444444444444444444444444444
i can't imagine how can people spam 3 keys that fast (the 1, 2, 3 period).
I can usually "spam" very fast only two hotkeys with index and ringfinger, but i can't even imagine how is that possible to use so many hotkeys so fast.
when I use 5 hotkeys to a tvz army, my hotkeys are usually 3-4 times wider spread than Nada's
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I'll start off with my zerg hotkeys:
Early game
1: 1st overlord
2: 2nd overlord
3: scouting drone
4: current tech building that's not done yet (so it's a pool, then when the pool completes, I change it to spire, then den, etc.
5: first hatch
Mid-game/Late-game
1-4: units, usually putting muta and/or lurkers together in their own group
5-0: hatches
0: until I get a 6th hatch, I'll use 0 for scourge/queens
Once I get more than 6 hatches, I change the hotkeys around slightly. Instead of each hotkey being its own hatch, I make each hotkey a hatch that is mining minerals/gas. Then, I'll place my hatcheries near the mining hatch, and so now all my bases are essentially a hotkey. This lets me multitask my drones/sunk/extractor production better, and makes sure that I don't forget about bases. And by placing additional hatcheries nearby, I can double-click my hotkey, and macro the hatches manually from there. If my macro grows so big that even this won't work, I'll place additional hatcheries in one central location, and map that screen to f4.
Default position
My default position is usually the home row (4 fingers on ASDF). Being mainly zerg, this helps me by having the Attack, Select, and Drone shortkeys instantly available.
Assigning hotkeys
1-2: move pinky down to left ctrl key, hit 1/2 with my middle finger
3-7: move pinky down to left ctrl key, hit 3/4/5/6/7 with index finger
8-0: move pinky down to left ctrl key, hit 8/9/0 with thumb (yes I have big hands lol)
OR
Alternate 8-0: move thumb down to the right ctrl key, hit 8/9/0 with pinky
Using hotkeys
1: pinky finger
2: ring finger
3: middle finger
4-0: index finger
Common actions: (Note that these are for zerg)
Making drones (manually): mouse-select hatchery->ring finger hits 'S'->middle finger hits 'D'
Making drones (using hotkeys): for hatches hotkeyed to 5/6/7, I use index finger to hit 5/6/7->ring finger hits 'S'->middle finger hits 'D'. For hatches hotkeyed beyond that, I use index finger to hit 8/9/0->pinky hits 'S'->ring finger hits 'D'
Burrowing: index finger hits 'U' (If you haven't practiced this much, be prepared to mis-hit this one a LOT >_< )
Attack-moving: pinky hits 'A'->left-click with mouse
Shift-selecting/Shift-deselcting: for this, I combine the hotkey assign with the select/deselect. Pinky moves down to left ctrl key + ring finger moves down to left shift key->middle finger creates the new 1/2 hotkey, OR index finger creates the 3/4 hotkey.
Moving army around: generally I don't spam attack-move when I move my army around. I find it's more efficient to simply 1click2click3click4click to move my army around, then when I'm about to engage, I'll go 1Aclick2Aclick3Aclick4Aclick.
For any ability or command shortkey, I generally use these rules:
1)pinky hits 'Q', 'A', 'Z'
2)ring hits 'W', 'S', 'X'
3)middle hits 'E', 'D', 'C', and F2 (F-keys will probably vary based on keyboard layout)
4)Index finger hits everything else
These are probably the same for most, if not all people (at least for right-handed QWERTY users)
Exceptions to normal hand positions:
Mass-producing hydras
For this, my hand shifts towards the right a bit, and the pinky is is used for S. So it goes: index finger hits 5/6/7/8/9/0->pinky hits 'S', index finger hits 'H'
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Hotkeys as Protoss:
+ Show Spoiler +1-4 units; they dont call it 1a2a3a4a for nothing  (if enough units 1-5; obs separate from army) 5-8 gateway/robo/stargate 8-0 nex (if no 3rd nex, 8 is production facility)
Hotkeys as Terran:
+ Show Spoiler +TvP:
4-5 CC initially
1-4 units
6-8 facts (machine shops higher priority)
9-0 comsat
TvZ:
early game:
1-3 mnm
4-5 CC
6-8 production facilities
mid game:
1-4 mnm
5 tanks/vessel(if SK terran)
6 vessel
7 rax
8 dship
9-0 comsat
late game:
1-5 mnm
6 tanks/vessel(if SK terran)
7 vessel/rax
8 dship
9-0 comsat
I think explanations of easy ways to reach hotkeys could work. Also sample progamer hotkeys and why those pros prefer that in the case that it matches people's playing styles. For example, I once heard that Boxer doesnt hotkey his main CC at all. I still dunno why.
Also efficient way to remember how to quickly perform upgrade hotkeys. For example, I'm used to casting Psionic Stork using "t." Upgrading storm from templar archives uses "p." Sometimes I click the Templar Archives click "t", pull off a Dreiven, and realize i accidentally upgraded DA energy XD
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Protoss: 1: Carrier/Arbiter/flanking group 2: Shuttle/Observer/flanking group 3: Important building (turns into Gateway later) 4-8: Gateway 9-0: Nexii
Zerg: 1-2: Units (usually non-Zergling units, sometimes I hotkey Zerglings for backstabs, etc.) 3-0: Hatcheries
I have some weird habit of having my middle finger press a lot of the buttons that I don't intend and can't fix -_-
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On November 13 2008 04:24 cgrinker wrote:
Hey as an update, I was looking through some of the old threads (and I mean old old) and I noticed that some people play left hand mouse, right hand keyboard. Does anyone that is still around care to comment on that. I would hate to leave that out of the writeup.
I actually just switched to that style. I am a normal right hand mouse/left hand keyboard player but I am a cross-dominant person and I like to switch the hands I use for my tasks. It's just a fascination with ambidexterity I suppose. I have only been doing so for about 3 weeks but hopefully I can be of some help here.
The first thing you notice right away when you switch is that you have to throw everything you know out the window and start from scratch. Right hand on the keyboard is much different simply because of the thumb being on the left side of the hand. This makes many things that were previously easy much more difficult and vice versa.
Set your right hand fingers on 1234. A, ctrl, shift and alt are more natural to reach right from the start with your right hand. I find 1a2a3a4a5a much easier even right after switching. Its easy to hotkey them as well. I used to use the right ctrl button with 6~0 with the left hand. I use them for hatcheries now because its actually easier to put my thumb on left crtl and hit 6~0 with my pinky. I have fairly large hands so that might be much different for others.
Hitting U,M and O became an issue. To compensate when building ultras/mutas/overlords I actually pick my hand off the mouse and use two hands on the keyboard. This isn't as bad as it sounds because the mouse is closer to the working keys when you use it with your left hand. I use a razor copperhead and I bound one of the side keys to U so using lurkers was not a pain with 1~5.
I still do not really have a location to have my hand setting as default. My left hand always sat on asdf because of familiarity with typing. My right hand almost never sits around jkl; unless I am two hand macroing but finding another spot feels unnatural. In time I am sure I will find the sweet spot.
Just remember the biggest thing with the other hand is that the thumb on the left side of the hand changes everything.
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I game with my keyboard on an angle.. I don't really know why I do it, I just feel a lot more comfortable doing it. Although I prefer to type with the keyboard straight in front of me. Kind odd =S
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 13 2008 05:34 BlasiuS wrote:
Alternate 8-0: move thumb down to the right ctrl key, hit 8/9/0 with pinky
omg, I feel dumb as shit for not thinking of this... the whole time i've been having to use two hands on the keyboard, left on left ctrl, because my left hand does not stretch across like that...
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On November 16 2008 18:42 anotak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2008 05:34 BlasiuS wrote:
Alternate 8-0: move thumb down to the right ctrl key, hit 8/9/0 with pinky omg, I feel dumb as shit for not thinking of this... the whole time i've been having to use two hands on the keyboard, left on left ctrl, because my left hand does not stretch across like that...
woot? I can easily do that 
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For me as a protoss, it changes depending on which matchup I'm in...
PvZ:
0-8 Nexus(sometimes I only use 0-9)
8-6 Gateways
5 Stargate
4 Robo
3-1 Army
During late game I usually expand my army hotkeys to encompass 1-5. For gateways, I just hotkey the gates that are in the middle of big clumps so I can doubletap to get to them.
PvT:
Same except usually no stargate so Robo is 5 and army is 1-4.
PvP:
I hotkey more gates in PvP because it is so important to keep up macro at all times so you can either punish your opponent or not be punished yourself.
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On November 11 2008 14:52 CDRdude wrote:
Therefore, it is usually less efficient to hotkey hatcheries starting a 9 or 0, because of the distance involved.
CDRdude, what you say about it mostly coming down to personal preference is correct. Though it may be less efficient to assign hatcheries to 6-0, doing it this way suits the way I play zerg. With large quantities of weak units, I like my best hotkeys on units to help them all arrive around the enemy at the same time. When I build (like before a battle) I often take my hand off the mouse and use both on the keyboard.
On a side note, I touch type in my everyday work. It's kind of funny how StarCraft has crept into my everyday life. I was taught to type 1-5 with my left hand, 6-0 with my right. But to get easy access to just one more hotkey in StarCraft my left hand now takes care of 1-6.
Curious to hear from those outside of the United States, are you taught to touch type 1-6 with your left hand?
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My style is quite different from the previous posters. I don't hotkey production buildings at all, instead preferring to use F2 and F4 to switch to their locations and mass click through them, using F3 for rally points. I tend to use for hotkeys (Protoss):
1-scouting probe (early game)/support units, like reavers and templar(late game)
2-Zealots
3-Dragoons
4-Zealots/Archons
5-Dragoons
6-Zealots/Dragoons/secondary support unit
7 to 0-Nexi
All hotkeys are by unit type, and only 1,2, and 3 (for units) are strictly what is listed, the rest are flexible.
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On November 13 2008 04:24 cgrinker wrote:
Hey as an update, I was looking through some of the old threads (and I mean old old) and I noticed that some people play left hand mouse, right hand keyboard. Does anyone that is still around care to comment on that. I would hate to leave that out of the writeup.
Well, I am left-handed (as about 25% of Earth's population). Duh.
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On November 18 2008 22:51 Metaspace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2008 04:24 cgrinker wrote:
Hey as an update, I was looking through some of the old threads (and I mean old old) and I noticed that some people play left hand mouse, right hand keyboard. Does anyone that is still around care to comment on that. I would hate to leave that out of the writeup. Well, I am left-handed (as about 25% of Earth's population). Duh.
Im pretty sure its not more than 10%...
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On November 13 2008 04:44 freelander wrote:
nada looks like this in bwchart:
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111
-----------222222222222222222222222222222222
3333333333333333333333333333333333333333
-------------------444444444444444444444444444444
i can't imagine how can people spam 3 keys that fast (the 1, 2, 3 period).
I can usually "spam" very fast only two hotkeys with index and ringfinger, but i can't even imagine how is that possible to use so many hotkeys so fast.
I haven't read all the replies to this thread, so forgive me if I'm answering a question that's already been answered.
Anyway, I don't think NaDa is pressing his keys THAT fast.
Perhaps he has his key repeat speed very high, so that when he presses something longer than a split second, it automatically double-taps it for him.
I'm not NaDa, so this is purely educated speculation. =)
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On November 13 2008 05:34 BlasiuS wrote:
1: pinky finger
2: ring finger
3: middle finger
4-0: index finger
Your fingers go like this
Thumb - index finger - middle finger - pointer/ring finger - pinky
for reference
Edit: misread your post but whatever I'll leave this.
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1-4/5 = army.
6-8 = gates
9 = nexus
0 robo
all changes.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.programmingart.com/products/key/keymanual/images/handsForManual.gif)
