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On April 15 2014 18:00 OmniEulogy wrote: yo man I'm all about that nova war random tangent video, how can you not enjoy this flavor. Also no, I'm not really concerned if Koshi is town right now. Town objective is not to find other townies it's to find scum. Finding townies is just a bi-product of catching the scum or do you spend all your time trying to identify town in mafia and I've been learning to do things backwards? Finding townies is not a bi-product of catching scum. Finding townies is great. If someone is confirmed town, you can trust him. Also he won´t be misslynched which increases the probability of lynching scum. Scum can also be found by process of elimination. On April 15 2014 18:56 Skanjab1s wrote: Hey guys, I'm the Vig. I've only got 3 days to play this game, so claiming now is the best option. I will use my 1 shot tonight on whoever i deem worthy of it. So far, that person is OO, for insulting my honor. wtf? I don´t get how claiming vig so early can help town in any way. On April 15 2014 20:12 Djagulingu wrote: Can everyone tell his town play and scum play? Please no. What´s the point of that? If you know your town play, you can fake it. On April 15 2014 20:58 Djagulingu wrote: I actually AM doing something productive for town. Luring people into a sophisticated discussion, trying to make the game a high-post game instead of a low-post one that would be good for scumbags. You can't say it didn't work, can you? Especially considering the fact that you jumped right in. A high-post game is not necessarily good for town. If there´s too many posts, it becomes difficult to filter out important information. I´d like to encourage people to a moderate post count, not spamming, no lurking. On April 15 2014 22:14 OneThousandWords wrote: This is a silly line of reasoning. I think he is town for his claim. I don't think mafia come in at the start of the day and claim a role out of the blue that can be CC'd. The only scenario in which he could turn out to look mafia is indeed if he is VT, if he doesn't get RB'd and a vig shot goes through. I find that scenario to be such an extreme outlier of a risk for mafia to take that it is a silly line of reasoning to go down at this point. If all it takes to look like town is to claim vig, I would do that every game i was scum in. On April 15 2014 23:40 OmniEulogy wrote: Also for what it's worth I like Skan's claim. Although I think it's fake and can be a detriment to town if he really is Vig or just VT scum has to deal with that during N1, and by itself I see it in a good light. I disagree with Djag in thinking that single action makes him scummy. Why do you like his claim? Sure, scum has to deal with it but otherwise scum would have had no idea about any power roles That´s not a very strong argument. Blaming a newbie for saying that he´s a newbie cannot convince me in any way. So difficult going through this. The one liners really hurt my reading comprehension. | ||
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On April 16 2014 16:20 thrawn2112 wrote: No. He made a huge post that doesn't contribute anything. He didn't say a single thing that is relevant to the lynch. It's even worse than no scumreads, there are no reads of any kind. He argued his points without giving any indication that he was forming reads based off of the things he was arguing against. I´m certainly not gonna make up some half-assed read on someone just to look like town. Also what would give any indication that I´m forming reads except actually forming reads? If I am pointing out things I disagree with, you can assume that I´m gonna be looking at the one who posted it. I don´t think I need to mention that I´m trying to find scum every post or that I think someone is suspicious, if he made quite a few posts I disagree with. It´s more of a complain that in addition to me having almost no time people like you post one liners (often without quotes, so I have to go back reread some posts). It´s just a pain to filter people like this. You´re reading between lines that are not there. Especially the second part wasn´t meant to be defensive in any way. On April 16 2014 18:37 Koshi wrote: a guy has 10 minutes time to play the game. Reads thread. Quotes some posts he has ideas about and puts those ideas in thread. That sums up the first 24 hours of the game for me. Except I had like 30 minutes to play. On April 16 2014 19:49 thrawn2112 wrote: you ask what's mderg's agenda. isn't the fact that he has no agenda pretty scummy? my whole point is that he has no agenda, that he's literally not trying to find mafia. he's make NO EFFORTS to find mafia, he doesn't even seem interested in that part of the game. idc about him lying or not, his 10 min statement doesn't tell me anything other than that he feels like he needs to apoligze for his lack of contributions. The statement of barely having any time would explain the lack of agenda. Also I don´t feel like I need to apologize for my lack of contributions. I just wanted to complain about the world, this was the first place I could do that. | ||
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On April 15 2014 18:56 Skanjab1s wrote: Hey guys, I'm the Vig. I've only got 3 days to play this game, so claiming now is the best option. I will use my 1 shot tonight on whoever i deem worthy of it. So far, that person is OO, for insulting my honor. I already said that I can´t see any way that town could get anything out of this. It´s very dangerous for scum to do this, though. So this gives skanjab some town points. On April 15 2014 20:15 Skanjab1s wrote: No, I don't, he's a townie through and through. Do you think he's scum? I don´t think you ever gave a reason for this. Basing your read on nothing seems scummy to me. On April 16 2014 19:16 Skanjab1s wrote: I agree with this, the entire post has nothing that's actually related to scumhunting in any way. Voting mderg. That´s funny, since you have more posts than me but until that post I can´t see any scumhunting from you at all. Still not a single read based on your own reasoning. On April 16 2014 19:20 Skanjab1s wrote: Why are you so against his lynch Koshi? You're throwing out other random names and saying 'hey, lynch this guy instead, dont kill mderg!" when mderg hasn't done anything that I can see that should make you so sure of his towniness. Isn´t it the accuser who has to bring in the proofs? Yeah, I didn´t do much until now but you´re just going with thrawn without giving anything yourself. On April 16 2014 20:06 Skanjab1s wrote: Calm down sweetcheeks, I didn't mean it. I'm totally fine with killing kush too, apart from the weird 'you two are town' thing, most of his questions just have very little point, and the answers to them wouldn't help him figure out the alignments of anyone, things like this: These questions just seem to be there to make it look like he's scumhunting, but really, none of these things would actually help him get a better read on anybody. He also seems to be tunneling Koshi pretty hard, and directing all of his questions to koshi, I'm not sure what to make of that for now. To me the bold part sounds like you don´t even care who gets lynched. Also how can you be sure that the answers to his questions wouldn´t help him figure out any alignments. Maybe he can figure out alignments based on that. Only way you can be sure that he can´t figure out any alignments is if you´re scum yourself. Right now I think you´re scum. The only thing that might speak against that is the vig claim. But even that could just be a ballsy scum move. | ||
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On April 16 2014 22:32 Skanjab1s wrote: Well, this is a lovely OMGUS. (1) I didn't give a reason for it, and I'm not going to, but that doesn't mean I don't have a reason for it. (2) I have been scumhunting though, not just posting paragraphs complaining about 1-liners and discussing stuff that has no relevance to actually finding scum. I have given reads too. So that whole thing is just a blatant lie. (3) I have brought in proofs though. I gave my reasons for thinking you are scum. Koshi on the other hand is hard-defending you when there is no reason why he should think you are that town. (4) There is more than 1 scum. Me thinking that kush is scum also doesn't mean I don't care about the lynch, obviously. (5) Read the questions please. The answers to those questions can not help him figure out the alignment of a person in any way. And 'the only way I can be sure is if im scum?" When the answer to those questions cannot be alignment indicative, how would me knowing this make me scum? That's just ridiculous. You're reaching really hard with these points on me. Half of them are lies and the other half don't even make sense. (1) Why are you not going to? I can´t trust a read, if there´s no reason given for it. (2) at the time of the quoted post your only read was omni and you didn´t give any reason for that read. (3) where did you bring proofs in? I didn´t see any. (4) It´s the tone that makes me think that, not that you think kush is scum. (5) I read those questions on the first one I agree with you but the answers to questions 2 and 3 could maybe support a read. I don´t think the questions were good but saying they cannot help in any way is something I don´t agree with. Maybe some of my points don´t make sense to everyone but NONE of them are lies. | ||
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On April 16 2014 23:19 Skanjab1s wrote: (1) I don't wanna. (2) No, that's incorrect. I had given a read on you, omni and kush. (3) In the post where I said that I agreed that your opening paragraph post was scummy, due to you not scumhunting but instead feigning contribution by making a huge post about irrelevant things. I think I missed something, Omni, why is thrawn scum? (1) So you´re purposefully withholding information? (2) Before you made the post I quoted you had only given a read on omni. Then you based the read on me on the fact that I haven´t done active scumhunting even though you also didn´t actively hunt scum before that (3) It wasn´t you who brought in the "proofs", it was thrawn. You only rephrased what he said. More importantly those aren´t proofs because not doing anything particularly townie in the first 24 hours is not proof of being scum. | ||
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On April 17 2014 00:59 Skanjab1s wrote: (1) Yes (2) At the time of your post, I had given reads on omni, you, and kush, go back and read. (3) Thats not the just of the points on you. Agreeing with someone's points and elaborating is 'proofs'. Koshi: No, I'm not (2) I wasn´t talking about the time of my post. I meant at the time of this post: On April 16 2014 19:16 Skanjab1s wrote: I agree with this, the entire post has nothing that's actually related to scumhunting in any way. Voting mderg. (3) You elaborated and rephrased On April 17 2014 00:37 Koshi wrote: Then you dont believe the claim. Are you dense? "I believe that you claimed vig. But you could also be scum" How??? This all comes down to the meaning of "believe" imo it´s very possible to believe in something being the case while considering the possibility that it might be wrong. An example: I believe that god doesn´t exist but I can´t say for sure that god doesn´t exist. | ||
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On April 17 2014 01:45 Skanjab1s wrote: Well, that's just silly. At the time of your one post you didn't have reads on anyone. That's like me calling everyone scummy because at a certain time, they didn't share reads on anyone. No point arguing about this any further since you don´t seem to understand what I mean. | ||
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So I have a null read on him right now. | ||
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On April 17 2014 04:39 Vivax wrote: Current status of reads. Reasoning pending, but ask me about a specific one if you want me to explain it first: Townies: Koshi, Djagu, Cava, thrawn, (~Kush fwiw) Today's lynch candidates (by PoE and cause there is some stuff I don't like): FT, Omni, OTW, OO, mderg Also HI GUYS =D . Rejoice that you got me and not that crazy grush fac-simile I´d like to know the reasoning for Cav, thrawn and OTW. To me Cav is null, thrawn is slightly scummy and OTW seems like town. | ||
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On April 17 2014 04:57 ObviousOne wrote: Kush giving me the town boner as of his return this second half. Thank fuck we have a replacement, hello vivax please explain why I am on your POE or what you didn't like about me. mderg's main, perhaps only, focus is a vig claim / scumminess of claiming a near-verifable role D1? That's... concerning, he's getting my vote for now. No reason to be pushing to lynch blue claims unless there's a cc. He's even sticking with it despite talking to others and defending his position which, with a tiny bit of critical thought should be an intractable one. ##vote: mderg @FT: Koshi reads town to me only because he's all over the place and active. I'm more familiar with his "go forth and do work for me" town-meta that I think he uses in themed games but I'm not as aware of his regular town-game meta. My distant memory from back when Titanic 1 was a thing was that his scum game was pretty focused, but I'm bad with the memory thing sometimes so if you have something contradictory that would be useful today I'd like to see that. Did you even read my posts? The claim is the one thing that makes Skan look less scummy. The claim was never my focus, it was everything besides that. I´m also having a hard time understanding the rest of the paragraph about me. Would it be possible to rephrase that? | ||
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On April 17 2014 05:39 Vivax wrote: Mderg can you tell me why you think OTW is town? Because he´s pretty much all over the place and every read is has a basis, not that I agree with everything he said. In general this doesn´t seem scummy to me but rather something a town player would do. | ||
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On April 15 2014 21:42 OneThousandWords wrote: Djagulingu, you describe your town play as: In this game you have already called 2 people scum for supposed scum slips. Am I to assume that you have now 180° on your own meta so quickly? This doesn't look very systematic to me, it looks like the complete opposite. You jump on people and call them scum without much basis and state that you are helping the town by making a pro-town atmosphere of sophisticated discussion when, instead, you are steering people in a very specific direction on a point of view that seems entirely skewed on pushing an agenda. I don´t agree with this case on Djagulingu. It´s purely based on Djagu´s self meta which I think is always difficult to base a case on. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 07:23 OneThousandWords wrote: I also find it odd how Cavalinho has chosen to respond to posts in the thread. His chose his first posts of the game to say hi and that he isn't going to comment on anything because nothing has happened. I find this in and of itself strange. When people first start the game they usually start to converse with people or even talk about policy, however, Cavalinho decided not to have any part of the conversation whatsoever. Now, understandably we do not know the circumstances and I'd like to hear more from him but then he returns to the thread after quite some time to post, well, nothing. His only real post is a post to jump on discrediting OmniEulogy (whether justly or not). I find this an odd behavioural tidbit because IMO this is not a townies mindset. I agree with this case on cav + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 23:54 OneThousandWords wrote: This is categorically false. Where do I state that I don't believe he could be vig? Also, I've seen the word smurf thrown around. If it's used in the same way as MOBA games then you're wrong, I was invited here by a friend from another mafia site. Here is wherein the real problem lies. All the people that you seemingly "like" for things that they have done have quite simply started from posts that I have made. Thrawn's main contributions this game: This is his first contribution into the thread other than the non-sensical replies to longer posts earlier in his filter and it's just piggybacking off a post that I made earlier in the thread here. This is a relatively easy thing to do as mafia because: A) It lets people appear to be contributing. B) If worded differently but similar it enables people to pocket the other people that made the original case because they have seemingly similar reads. C) To the people that didn't read it they are fooled into believing it is original content. Now, on it's own I know this is not enough, however, thrawn's behaviour is not your typical town behaviour! He flits from one lynch to the next with little explanation. He practically wants to lynch half the game! I've mentioned Mderg before. Here he wants to lynch Kush. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 17:53 thrawn2112 wrote: same for me. becasue of this post He wants to lynch ME which is somewhat of a kick in the teeth seeing as he is the one that is sheeping MY point of view on mderg. What could be the reason for this? Is he not reading what i've written? Nope. It's something about skan and nothing about the actual player that he got his read from. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2014 19:26 thrawn2112 wrote: 100words is probably my 2nd lynch choice. i almost voted for him instead of that other guy. what stood out to me is how his main talking point was skan's claim and how pointless it was to talk about the claim yet he did nothing but talk about the claim koshi i'll fully read and respond to that meta when i wake up. too tired/tipsy for that right now. but i did skim one of the links and I notice that he likes to argue about stuff without thinking about alignments. so my preliminary answer to you question is yes, the meta does sorta make me uncertain about lnyching him. He wants to policy lynch an AFK player who is talking about nonsense (Alakaslam). He wants to also look into OE who he also says is scummy before even looking into him. This is not what I expect a typical person to do. Usually it's: I'll look into a player ----> Here is why he is scummy. Thrawn's view is. This is a somewhat scummy player ----> Going to go look into him after I've already made my decision about whether he is scummy or not! In conclusion thrawn is a person who, while talking a lot, seems to be a person of fleeting wishes. He is keen to hop onto anyone he can push a lynch onto. He hasn't "read the thread" and pushes others reads as his own. He calls the person he got his case for on his vote choice scum based on early conversation in a time where nothing was happening. ##Vote Thrawn2112 Here I agree on the part about thrawns first contribution being the case on me is scummy. I don´t think thrawn was sheeping OTW, though. | ||
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On April 17 2014 05:36 ObviousOne wrote: Any potential vigilante situation is self-solving. Either a shot is called and made, called a missed, not called and claimed later, or never called but the vigilante dies. Giving any amount of effort towards discussing how much you do or don't believe it and arguing about it or using it to defend someone before any of those events happen is ridiculous. So to say it another way; having a read on a player solely for their power claim is ridiculous because we know that mafia can fake claim, we know that a power role who claims early can get their role blocked, they can be simply shot, and other corner cases where it leads into some kind of big play (which I would discount but in the interests of trying to be thorough I add it here). So if he's actually blue then you pushing for his lynch is pointless endeavour for anyone thinking with a town mindset. With so few potential power roles in a normal game (something you may not be aware of). You can just accept for one day that he's got something useful to contribute outside of his lack of conversational contribution and focus on real lynch candidate possibilities instead until it can be established he's lying or he is caught in a sure-fire situation where he knows something that he shouldn't. That is why I think your vote is wasted and you've given him the possibility of being town for his role but you refuse to accept what that means for the overarching scheme of the game when you pursue him as a potential lynch candidate. Doesn´t change the fact that Skan looks scummy to me but it definitely speaks against lynching him on day 1. ##vote: FirmTofu Because his analysis on Skan and Djagu doesn´t say anything and I think his case on OTW is bad. I especially don´t like this post: On April 17 2014 05:04 FirmTofu wrote: @OTW Okay, so thrawn is repeating a lot of things previously stated in thread. This is a valid point. However, I don't see this as necessarily scummy. Town players repeat points too and this is a perfectly valid one to reiterate. You'll need better points to convince me thrawn is scum. Also, your recent responses to Vivax and I are not helping your case. In this post he gives OTW´s case some credit. Before this post he said that the case was awful. This change of his opinion contradicts the vote on OTW right after the post. | ||
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On April 17 2014 06:20 Vivax wrote: If you agree with his case on Cava why does he stay null for you when you ask me about the reads? Be honest, did you just go look for OTW's cases when I asked you? pretty simple: What Cavs posted after the case doesn´t seem scummy. I didn´t look for his cases, I only needed to find them in his filter to provide quotes. Now I´m going to sleep. | ||
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On April 17 2014 21:45 OneThousandWords wrote: I think what he did at lynch time was pretty scummy. There are some things I find odd about how that lynch went down: First and foremost, Thrawn. He originally started voting for Cavalinho for the reasons of PoE, not doing anything towny and being too formal. All reasons he was happy to push more and more come lynch time. + Show Spoiler + On April 17 2014 12:33 thrawn2112 wrote: I also think his stuff's all too formal, it hints that he's self conscious and he was in the thread around this time 24 hours ago. but where is he now? and I see what kush is saying now but I think that what's more telling is how tunneled cavalinho's been. if not for kush asking him abotu mderg then cavalin probably wouldn't have ever mentioned him. he only like to talk about his one scumread and he only has one reason for that scumread and I think the red part is indicative of scum mindset On April 17 2014 12:37 thrawn2112 wrote: btw I'm probably the swing vote. and I'm still not completely shut off to the idea of lynching you. So what do you think about cavalinho now that he's arrived? if you just fuck off then that WILL increase your chances of being lynched Yet, all throughout the deadline time thrawn had been leaving both his options open: This post implies that Tofu is not as strong as a scum read as his PoE read on Cavalinho but still wants to make it known that he has an option to switch if necessary, yet, out of some miraculous turn of events after thrawn had told both of them to post more stuff, very very shortly afterwards: In the space of 2 minutes where not very much happened at all, where none of the people had posted anything worthy of a vote switch, thrawn decided that it was apt to switch to Tofu out of the blue. Here is what I think is the reason. The votes reached 4-4 and there was going to be a no lynch, thrawn had already switched to Cav and gave his reasoning but suddenly Cav and Vivax added their votes to Tofu. This enabled Thrawn to jump onto Tofu very easily: I think Thrawn saw that it was looking to be a Cav lynch and I think Cav is scum with Thrawn. Thrawn seeing the inevitable push on Cav decided it would be better to take credit and be on his scum partners wagon than to be off of it and look suspicious. When the turn of events happened and people started to vote Tofu then Thrawn found the opportunity to switch his vote onto Tofu and save his partner. The problem I have with this is that your case relies on Cav being scum which is not completely clear. If cav is not scum the case loses almost all it´s merit. | ||
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On April 18 2014 01:43 thrawn2112 wrote: otw i'm not gonna respond to any more of that stuff unless cavalniho flips scum. if that happens then we can talk about it all you like. i'm pretty sure that if you don't just read my filter on its own, if you actually go read the stuff in the hours leading up to the lynch then my thought process should be pretty obvious. it was a tense moment. i didn't even realize that a tie meant no lynch until right before the deadline. i had reasons to think both leading candidates were scum, and I had reasons to think both candidates were town. if you were to ask me my thoughts for each minute leading up to the lynch I probably would have given you a different answer, that's how crazy things were. on top of that there was vivax who started derailing the conversation by calling me mafia for the most retarted reasons so I I also i to devote some energy to dealing with that. AND he brought up some points that countered everything I was thinking, and I slowly began to see things his way. so votes are at 4-4 which means no lynch. i have no fukn clue who to vote for and people on both sides of the fence are acting so damn confident about their read. but if I kept my vote on cavalinho that means we no lynch and I didn't want that. at that exact moment in time I could have listed tons of reasons why I thought both of them were town, and tons of reaons for the opposite. if i seemed to have swtiched back and forth easily, that's just proof of how conflicted I was. and the icing on the cake is that i didn't feel like either of them were trying very hard. neither of them were really being that townie before the deadline, but i didn't think it was likley that both were scum, so I was really confused. thjat's why i said things didn't feel right. so really, there are tons of reasons why i did what I did. it's not so black and white as you're making it. Now what are you suggesting is my mafia agenda? Say cavlin is scum. votes are at 4-4, with my vote on cavalin. i switch to FT. Do you really think that scum would make such a risky play? Assuming that cavalinho and i are scum, it's obvious that I'm going to look super shitty fort swinging the lynch onto the townie. Hell, cavalinho hasn't even flipped and people are still making the association read. Do you really think that that's what I'd do if I was scum? There were more people in the thread who were ok with lynch FT than there were with lynching cavalina. I could have just left my vote on cavalin, and he probably would have been saved becasue town would either have no-lynched, or people would have moved onto FT to avoid the no lynch. The momentum was definitely moving towards a FT lynch over a no lynch, do you think that scum thrawn would be the one to risk his neck by beaing the first person to vote for the townie FT? That's just ridiculous. You're suggesting that I literally made the worst, and most obvious move a scum player ever could have made in that situation. And if cavalinho is town then your case completely falls apart. this has been a pretty honest post, I feel like I've really opened up and explained exactly how I felt about the lynch. if anyone still wants to have this ridiculous conversation then that's too bad, I'll only entertain it if cavalinho flips scum (which tbh i am sorta thinking he might and that's frustrating as fuck) This 100% makes sense. On April 18 2014 01:50 kushm4sta wrote: CAV WHY YOU NO ANSWER YOU KEEP SAYING YOU GAVE THE REASONS WHY FT OVER MDERG I CANT FIND THEM He probably means this post. It´s basically nothing, though. On April 17 2014 03:33 Cavalinho wrote: Your whole reasoning for voting me is that I'm focusing on FT rather than mderg. Guess what? I think mderg is scummy too. I just wanted to bring FT's actions into the spotlight rather than mderg's because more people were focusing on mderg. Also, I have a question for you kush. Why is it that you ask me a question, and when you don't receive an answer due to me not being anywhere near the thread for some time, you vote me and say that I'm just focusing on FT? That's scummy. It's like you were planning on voting me regardless of my answer. On April 18 2014 02:16 OneThousandWords wrote: It's ok Thrawn, I think everything will resolve itself tomorrow  Also, what has ObviousOne done all game? He has only pushed mderg AFAIK and that is the person who was attacking the claimed vig. I made the assumption that no sane scum would do that, so why has ObviousOne made the opposite conclusion and why is that pretty much his only contribution? He practically refrains from being a part of the Cav/Tofu lynch. I agree on OO being scummy. I think pretty much everyone agrees on that. | ||
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what that means you are thinking though no clue... *omg and easy way to seem like I'm doing something productive for town!* perhaps?
