EPT
Note that games don't always go this way, but most of the time all protoss got same probe scouting timings.
ZvP how to anticipate double gate on 4x4 maps
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iFU.pauline
France1728 Posts
Note that games don't always go this way, but most of the time all protoss got same probe scouting timings. | ||
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
zerg never sees it coming | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7003 Posts
On November 07 2013 05:54 Crunchums wrote: 2gate is a pretty strong strategy in TvZ zerg never sees it coming onfire :p | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1728 Posts
hehe^^ | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
Did you manually work out what time probes would come compared to your units so that you know what he's doing? Or did you just learn from experience? Also, is this just for 9/9 gate or does it also account for 10/12 gate? I've seen people scout immediately after pylon with 10/12 gate so the timing would be the same as FFE. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1728 Posts
On November 07 2013 08:10 Birdie wrote: Very nice tutorial. Makes you look like a map hacker xD I need to learn this for each map. Did you manually work out what time probes would come compared to your units so that you know what he's doing? Or did you just learn from experience? Also, is this just for 9/9 gate or does it also account for 10/12 gate? I've seen people scout immediately after pylon with 10/12 gate so the timing would be the same as FFE. 10/12 against pool11 is not really dangerous, and yes it can happen that sometimes scouting is different but in the overall this strat works 9 times out of 10, no kidding that's why I can't stop doing it because it is so efficient and rarely fails. I learnt it by chance watching zerg afreeca stream and I saw his dodge probe, so I wanted to do the same doing pool11 and by digging a bit I found out those possibilities, keep in mind that the first thing I tried to do is the same thing using overpool but the timing is wrong and your economy not good. What I like about it is that you don't gamble, you don't try to think, you just eliminate possibilities and come to one conclusion. If you approach the game this way, I believe you will not lose so much with stupid mistake or just "because you didn't know", and I agree it really looks like map hack, but it's not, just science  | ||
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TelecoM
United States10782 Posts
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
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sheaRZerg
United States613 Posts
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Weryeery
288 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10782 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1728 Posts
On November 10 2013 17:03 GGzerG wrote: I think this can work a lot of the time but if toss scouts right after pylon say on FS, and scouts you first, then still 2gates, the probe would arrive at the same time as it would if you were going forge FE.... Scouting after pylon would throw you off if he scouts you first and pretty fast? If he scouts me first like exactly at the same time I put my pool11, I am sure he is not cross position so since I am scouting already one place with my over if ever I don't get to see it I know already where to send my scout to bust his double gate and make sure to make a zergling with my fourth larva. In this case the most important is to not be delayed too much when you put your natural. Rare case though because If he scouts you first If you don't scout him first with your over (50% of chance to find him though since he is not cross position) If he goes for double gate If you get delayed too much putting your natural Then yes that might be a good reason to lose to double gate. But that's a lot of "if"... Usually if protoss scouts me first like this, i send my scout straight away. So I never said that it's really 100%, but unless you do some kind of big mistake (like wasting your zerglings on his zealots while buying time to morph your sunk) it's very unlikely that you will fail. Even protoss that were way better than me I still managed to defend their double gate, and I am just a C+ B- player so I think that this strat is reliable. It only get risky when he comes with like 3 to 4 probes on top of going 9gate, but he doesn't deal enough damage, it's almost GG. I actually beat your friend 33uP)Ghost because of that, and I saw him with like 12/1 1200 fish, maybe he was offracing i don't know  It's too bad I don't have the replay anymore because it was the perfect example and vs high class player. | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
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Jaevlaterran
Sweden578 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1728 Posts
On November 11 2013 08:21 Jaevlaterran wrote: shouldn't it be possible to work these timings out with another opening? Say overpool or 12 hatch. It's possible with overpool but you have to scout no matter what and scouting with overpool is not good for your eco, that's why usually progamers don't do it, I said it in my video. Also 12 hatch i guess it's possible but to me 12 hatch is shit coze it can be easily punished by rush canon and what if you put your hatchery and you see 9gate middle, it's too late...Unless you send your scout before putting your hatchery which mean hurting your eco and be delayed with your natural. 12 hatch is good if you do it sometimes but not as a standard opening and it's based assuming protoss would not bother you, so it's gambling your bo out which I don't like at all. Sometimes I saw sAviOr just doing hatch 12 opening session, he would get canon rush every time and survive it 50% of the time so up to you bro I have tried many ways to get the same timing and eco, you can't. pool11 with this strat is the most efficient because you can counter everything without sacrificing your eco. pool12 you will lose the advantage of having your natural popping out earlier than an overpool and you will get your zerglings later so it's like you are losing both advantage of an overpool and pool11 opening, over what? ONE drone. Definitely not worth it... I understand you guys would love to see that kind of strat with overpool and hatch12 because you see it more often than pool11 but unfortunately it's not happening, just try it on fish and tell me after 50 z v p on fish what was the best if you want to scout double gate before your larva pops out after your 6 zerglings. ps : even eon told me that he was scouting now with overpool because of this problem of not making zergling while not scouting double gate in time. | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
No really its a great video. Very insightful! | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1728 Posts
On November 16 2013 00:56 Golgotha wrote: so many Koreans on fish ragequit because i use this build now. damn cheesing nubs. its so good on fish because so many toss in unranked 1v1 do 2 gate. its all they do. thanks pauline Hehe while my z v t tutorial might be questionable at some points, this z v p opening is damn real | ||
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Operations
115 Posts
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