• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:19
CEST 16:19
KST 23:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202542Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up5LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced58
StarCraft 2
General
Clem Interview: "PvT is a bit insane right now" Serral wins EWC 2025 TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Would you prefer the game to be balanced around top-tier pro level or average pro level? Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
Which top zerg/toss will fail in qualifiers? BW General Discussion Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced How do the new Battle.net ranks translate? Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Bitcoin discussion thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread 9/11 Anniversary
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 728 users

Interview with TLO on the need for new/better maps

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Slasher
Profile Joined September 2007
United States1095 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-24 22:06:15
October 23 2013 22:16 GMT
#1
I interviewed Liquid TLO at IEM NYC about his performance, WCS 2013, and his thoughts on the current state of SC2. He says one factor he'd like to see improvement on is maps, where he believes there is a hole to fill. He says that while it may be difficult for professional players to play on many different maps, it would be good for the scene overall if there wasd more variety.

"I think the game will be more interesting if we play different maps. I wish Blizzard would support map makers more"

Note that TLO was sick at at the event so his voice is a bit off! Huge thanks to him for doing the interview anyway

:
SigmaoctanusIV
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States3313 Posts
October 23 2013 22:25 GMT
#2
TLO brings up some really awesome points I like his thinking on changes.
I am Godzilla You are Japan
Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
October 23 2013 22:29 GMT
#3
TLO bringing more attention to the broken map scene. Always greatly appreciated!
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
Spectreman
Profile Joined February 2012
Brazil52 Posts
October 23 2013 22:31 GMT
#4
I miss scrap station
Ushi
Profile Joined September 2008
United States21 Posts
October 23 2013 22:37 GMT
#5
Maps are so huge to balance. It is night and day which units become viable like siege tanks/brood lords. Rush timings/gimmicky plays are so affected by the terrain that it's a wonder that maps are so bland and similar. I hope some maps are balanced between 2-base timings and 3 base games while still allowing gimmicky 1-base all-ins to be legit. Easier to defend naturals that are harder to take can slow down macro just long enough for games to be interesting without hitting a deathball stage. I just hope mapmakers are given more support in the future because they balance the game more than Blizzard ever could with patches.
kochanfe
Profile Joined July 2011
Micronesia1338 Posts
October 23 2013 22:38 GMT
#6
Some great points by TLO. Hope Blizzard listens.
"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long." - Lao Tzu
Darkdwarf
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Sweden960 Posts
October 23 2013 22:48 GMT
#7
Haha, gamespot cutting off Slasher's usual ending tirade was really hilarious to me (for some reason).

Teams: IM, Jin Air, Invictus || Players: Maru, GuMiho, INnoVation, Ryung, sOs, Squirtle, NaNiwa, Has, Zoun, Life, Rogue, Dark
MagnuMizer
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Denmark384 Posts
October 23 2013 22:56 GMT
#8
Yeah wow, i completely agree with TLO... I always thought there were too few ladder maps, and definitely too few good ones..
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
October 23 2013 23:01 GMT
#9
Have to partly blame the players and the community for the limited map design. Players especially are very conservative when it comes to anything outside the established norm for maps. Also many of them want as small map pool as possible and the same for every tournament.
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-23 23:10:42
October 23 2013 23:08 GMT
#10
On October 24 2013 08:01 Eury wrote:
Have to partly blame the players and the community for the limited map design. Players especially are very conservative when it comes to anything outside the established norm for maps. Also many of them want as small map pool as possible and the same for every tournament.


You can have a small map pool & new maps at the same time. It's how iCCup's MOTW worked. Thus said, Blizzard may implement MOTM (Maps Of The Month) or something. They may also go back to their MOTS (Maps Of The Season), too.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 23 2013 23:46 GMT
#11
Good points TLO!
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
TeslasPigeon
Profile Joined March 2012
464 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-24 00:06:34
October 24 2013 00:05 GMT
#12
On October 24 2013 08:01 Eury wrote:
Have to partly blame the players and the community for the limited map design. Players especially are very conservative when it comes to anything outside the established norm for maps. Also many of them want as small map pool as possible and the same for every tournament.


I never understood this reasoning. I would think the tournaments are the ones to blame. Take DH for instance, if they introduced a new map pool for Winter players would still show up and compete for prize money.

In 2012 we had a nearly universal map pool between IEM, DH, IPL, and MLG. If these organizations would change the maps between tournaments players wouldn't cease showing up.

But I do agree that it would be nice if Blizzard changed their maps more often. Like every season they get rid of 4 maps and replace them with 4 new ones, then the next season get rid of 4 older maps replacing them as well so that by the end of the year you have a map pool that is completely different than the beginning of the year.
PineapplePizza
Profile Joined June 2010
United States749 Posts
October 24 2013 00:32 GMT
#13
I'm 100% certain that mapmakers, if given the liberty to make magic happen, could make wonderful new maps that could bring new life and better gameplay for Terran and Zerg.

I'm also 100% certain that Protoss will just veto or allin every single game on every good map they create.

I think we should just ignore Protoss and make maps for interesting matchups.
"There should be no tying a sharp, hard object to your cock like it has a mechanical arm and hitting it with the object or using your cockring to crack the egg. No cyborg penises allowed. 100% flesh only." - semioldguy
Quakecomm
Profile Joined April 2012
United States344 Posts
October 24 2013 00:36 GMT
#14
On October 24 2013 07:31 Spectreman wrote:
I miss scrap station

yeah well...
maybe if u used the symetry tool
gorkey island is the only good map
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 24 2013 00:39 GMT
#15
On October 24 2013 09:05 TeslasPigeon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2013 08:01 Eury wrote:
Have to partly blame the players and the community for the limited map design. Players especially are very conservative when it comes to anything outside the established norm for maps. Also many of them want as small map pool as possible and the same for every tournament.


I never understood this reasoning. I would think the tournaments are the ones to blame. Take DH for instance, if they introduced a new map pool for Winter players would still show up and compete for prize money.
That happened once, the two maps they introduced weren't played very much. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/leagues/2701_2012_DreamHack_Eizo_Open:_Stockholm/main -- see Frigid Pass and Vicious.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Phanekim
Profile Joined April 2003
United States777 Posts
October 24 2013 00:39 GMT
#16
He does make good points though so it doesn't seem like sour grapes. There are potential things they can twerk the game up.
i like cheese
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-24 00:55:38
October 24 2013 00:49 GMT
#17
On October 24 2013 09:32 PineapplePizza wrote:
I think we should just ignore Protoss and make maps for interesting matchups.
Wait, they don't already do that?

With maps like Polar Night and Derelict Watcher, it shouldn't be surprising that Protoss all-ins every game on them given how hard expansions are to take. And then there's Akilon, where long games against Zerg are insanely hard if Zerg goes swarmhost/mass static defence, so Protoss is incentivized to finish the game fast or die by after two hours of fighting locusts.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
Slasher
Profile Joined September 2007
United States1095 Posts
October 24 2013 21:59 GMT
#18
On October 24 2013 07:48 Darkdwarf wrote:
Haha, gamespot cutting off Slasher's usual ending tirade was really hilarious to me (for some reason).


GameSpot.com/esports doesnt exist anymore, so I don't have anything to say...yet
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
October 24 2013 22:07 GMT
#19
The matchups surely need a tweak, and the only way to do that subtly without making people moan about balance is to change the way maps are laid out. You have to leave balance intact.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
ott
Profile Joined April 2011
United States74 Posts
October 26 2013 16:24 GMT
#20
omg i totally forgot about unbuildable terrain, would love 2 see areas where forcefields cant be placed
A truly creative person rids him or herself of self-imposed limitations. ROOT4ROOT! 'this is a strategy made of balls'- tasteless
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 653
Lowko358
Hui .211
ProTech56
Vindicta 40
Codebar 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 7255
Calm 4799
Bisu 2981
Shuttle 2421
Horang2 1940
Flash 1799
EffOrt 995
firebathero 986
Mini 836
Soulkey 419
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 400
Barracks 309
hero 262
ZerO 220
Mong 196
Soma 167
Snow 160
Hyuk 158
Zeus 109
Killer 100
Rush 86
Sea.KH 81
ToSsGirL 73
TY 71
Movie 56
JYJ50
Sharp 44
PianO 42
[sc1f]eonzerg 38
sSak 33
sorry 32
scan(afreeca) 17
Yoon 17
JulyZerg 13
IntoTheRainbow 12
Terrorterran 12
SilentControl 10
Bale 6
Stormgate
TKL 107
Dota 2
Gorgc5178
qojqva3685
Dendi1159
XaKoH 406
XcaliburYe258
syndereN46
Counter-Strike
byalli251
zeus238
oskar172
markeloff62
kRYSTAL_46
Other Games
singsing2356
B2W.Neo1621
hiko934
Beastyqt677
crisheroes409
DeMusliM343
Happy275
Fuzer 248
RotterdaM248
ArmadaUGS93
PartinGtheBigBoy44
QueenE39
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 24
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 57
• davetesta31
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix6
• blackmanpl 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2942
• WagamamaTV545
League of Legends
• Nemesis5037
• TFBlade346
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Summer Champion…
41m
PiGosaur Monday
9h 41m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
20h 41m
Stormgate Nexus
23h 41m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 1h
The PondCast
1d 19h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
CSO Cup
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
RotterdaM Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.