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IEM New York was arguably the most exciting tournament of the year due to Johan "NaNiwa" Lucchesi taking down many top Koreans and clenching 2nd place. Last weekend may be remembered for Naniwa’s confirmation that he is a top foreigner and one of the best Protoss players in the world, but what was ironically overshadowed was the champion, Lee "Life" Seung Hyun from the team StarTales. Life played an incredible tournament, with a 21-8 map score. Throughout the tournament, Life played mainly ZvZ and ZvP with 6-4 and 13-4 records respectively. The remainder of this article will analyze three of the aspects that make Life consistently dominant against Protoss.
What was most impressive was his ZvP, as expected with his phenomenal 76% win rate in the matchup. Life took out ROOT.puCK (2-0), KT Rolster’s Zest (4-2) and Liquid HerO (3-0) on his way to the finals where he finished Naniwa with a decisive 4-2, losing two maps to overconfidence (or manner hatcheries).
Life's IEM New York Results
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KX9sIsS.png)
At IEM New York, Life played nothing but macro games, strangling his opponents with his superior economy and compositions. However, Life stayed true to his typical play style, playing aggressive and putting on massive pressure. Throughout all of his games, Life employs three strategies that synergize together beautifully.
1) Constant pressure with gas light compositions
2) Multi pronged attacks once the Protoss takes a 3rd base
3) Tech during every attack
Each of these tactics and strategies is part of a plan to tech to a gas heavy compositions with infestors while keeping the Protoss on as low of a tech as possible.
Unrelenting Pressure
The first aspect of Life’s strategy is what many consider his characterizing trait: he is always on the offensive. Life’s rise to fame came on the back of his ZvT and ZvZ, where both matchups rely heavily on lings. He was able to make unthinkable plays with his lings, crushing hellions with tiny armies of speedlings and showing off incredible splits against banelings.
Against Protoss, Life makes use of his famed “Life lings” and puts on relentless pressure. In game two against Naniwa, Life was able to keep Naniwa in his base the entire game and force 3 cancels on his 3rd due to endless zergling run bys. On top of that, Life managed to keep his lings alive so long they seemed immortal (which was very reminiscent of JulyZerg). Every run by, Life prioritized sniping sentries before killing probes or forcing cancels. This tactic either allowed the following run bys due to the lack of sentry energy or forced additional sentries and delayed the tech of the Protoss (in Naniwa’s case, he lacked sentry energy and eventual took too much damage from the endless stream of zerglings running past his wall).
Life target fires 4 hydras against the single colossi while the rest of his units attack way units.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gDYbRUS.png)
However strong Life’s zergling control is, there is a point where zerglings are not enough to make cost efficient trades. Force fields in the early game and colossi in the mid game are too powerful to stay on pure zergling compositions. To deal with this, Life will either mix in a round of 8-15 roaches or hydralisks for his next attack, and typically rally lings behind this attack. My personal favorite is the hydra push with range, which occurs before colossi range can finish. Life will target 3-5 hydralisks on the single colossi, while trying to focus sentries with his lings.
If this attack was to happen after thermal lance finished the hydralisk attack would be much weaker, but before this critical moment, hydralisks and colossi have the same range. The strength of the attack can be seen in game three of the first best of three against Zest, where Zests’ army was crushed by this tactic.
Attack Everywhere
In games where Life is unable to deal crippling damage before his Protoss opponent establishes a third base, Life changes his strategy and instead of going for focused attacks at the natural, begins to attack on many fronts. There is usually a small window after the Protoss establishes his third base where he has a powerful enough army to defend any single attack the Zerg can muster on one front. The Protoss army typically has either a small number of colossi or voidrays that are protected by sentries and forcefields, but this type of army loses its strength in fights of smaller army supplies. Life takes advantage of this fact by attacking on multiple fronts, thereby splitting up the Protoss army, weakening its overall strength and stressing his opponents multitasking abilities.
One of the most used moves Life used was the burrowed roach counter attack. In game one against Naniwa, Life was far behind in tech and economy and needed to buy time to get his swarmhosts and infestors out. He split up his army of roaches (with burrow) and began to attack Naniwa at both his natural and third. Because of Naniwa’s reliance on cannons for detection, he was forced to stay on his side of the map and defend. On top of that, any burrowed roaches that made it past the front of the natural or behind the third base were out of range of cannon detection. This choice in strategy picked Naniwa’s multitasking abilities apart and bought Life enough time to finish his tech and have an army that could crush Naniwa.
On top of any time bought and the potential for damage, this tactic also allows Life to have near perfect scouting. Even if units do not penetrate the main, the Protoss is forced to show what tech choices he is making or he risks taking catastrophic damage to this pressure. There is rarely a game where an opponent surprises Life (see game 4 and 6 against Naniwa where pressure indirectly scouted the dark shrine).
Infestors are a Good Unit
Arguably the most important theme in Life’s play last weekend was his decision to tech behind every attack. After each pressure move, Life had bought enough time to either make a round of higher tech units or finish a critical tech building. The most beautiful aspect of this is that the compositions he uses to pressure are always mineral heavy, leaving most of his gas available for tech. This allows Life to reach gas heavy compositions with ease that other Zergs struggle to obtain.
Earlier we discussed how Life will pressure with roaches or hydralisks, but only rally lings behind them. The brilliance in this subtle decision is now much more obvious: it allows Life to have extra gas to tech! This is only possible because of his impeccable army control (especially with zerglings), which has been noted by other pro gamers when they try to replicate his style (in the season of GSL where Life beat IM.MVP, many Zergs complained about how difficult Life’s style was to emulate).
Life’s choice in tech is another defining aspect of his play. He tends to favor infestors instead of roach-hydra-viper or muta-corruptor compositions. After the infestor nerf to fungal and infested terrans, pro gamers have been avoiding infestor tech. It is difficult in reaching the high number of infestors needed to stabilize and stay safe, but Life’s style allows him to squeeze out the extra gas to reach the critical number of infestors. Once Life has infestor tech, the game tends to lean in his favor as lings become viable again. Life can attack with a ling infestor (with either corruptors or hydras to support) and retreat with his infestors every fight. He manages to make very mineral heavy trades, allowing further tech to hive or increased numbers of tech units. Eventually, the Protoss is starved out and Life breaks him or forces an all in.
The End Result
In conclusion, Life’s control and decision making allows him to play a unique style of ZvP that is incredibly consistent. In each of his games at IEM New York, Life played his own aggressive take of macro ZvP that inevitably wore each of his opponents down. The most important aspect of his play style was the consistency that it provided him. The constant pressure provided not only a way to force errors out of his opponent, but also almost perfect scouting. Even if his opponent defended perfectly, Life had been teching behind his attack, preparing for the next one. All of these traits allow Life to show his skill and consistently win against players of all caliber and play style. With Life qualifying for the next season of premier league in WCS Korea, which is looking to be quite Protoss heavy, we’ll see how dominant he truly is.
VODs:
https://ia71prkz.modit.net/]Life vs Zest
Life vs Naniwa
Life vs Hero
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Life has got the be the most stressfull guy in the world to play against, also sick write up
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Can you post vods or better replays of Life?
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I'll link all the games I mentioned!
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Solid analysis. I think his use of mass queen in the mid game in conjunction with nyduses deserves some mention
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United States4883 Posts
I don't know if you also saw my analysis of Life's ZvP (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=432766), but I also touched on a lot of Life's brilliant use of transitioning to continually make his units useful. I think the emphasis Life places on infestors is primarily because he's always ultimately going for a SH/queen/hydra lategame. He never makes more than about 6 infestors and almost always makes them in congruence with a 4th base, usually after his roach/hydra stage is over and he's started a queen/SH transition; in games where he gets out infestors earlier, he sets himself up for deadly timing attacks, relying more on the offensive potential of ITs compared to the defensive potential of fungal growth.
I like how you touched on Life's usage of mineral-heavy units to buy time for gas-heavy tech. That was something I overlooked. when you really think about it, though, Life's units are almost all mineral-heavy (zergling, roach, swarm host, queen) while only infestors, hydras, and upgrades/tech are gas-heavy. Compared to roach/hydra/viper, SH/queen is much more mineral-heavy, meaning Life can invest more into evo upgrades and things like burrow and overlord speed.
It's important to note that Life's speedling attack phase was almost invariably around 7:00, which stops literally every attempt protoss has at taking a fast 3rd off of almost no units. Although it ends up being very cost-inefficient and detrimental to not build drones, Life uses this speedling pressure to buy himself a lot of time for upgrades and lair tech. This means that even though Life may hit slightly later with a mid game attack, he'll be hitting with better upgrades and against a much later 3rd from the protoss.
All in all, pretty good write-up! I really liked the way Life played those games; all weekend he seemed to have a really clear grasp on how to play this matchup and exploit his opponents' weaknesses. 
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TBH there's so much that life does that not only is it impossible to cover it all without a ~5000 word write up but we also don't have enough of a sample size. I don't know if he's always going for swarmhosts though, he just keeps it as a tech option. There's so much variation in his play that it's tough to make generalizations (which is fucking awesome)
EDIT: also it's so nice to see nyduses being used in a non-all in :D
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Re-watching those games against Hero, he really does awesome target firing with the lings. When attacking the building third he prioritizes the probe every time, so that all the buildings are delayed. He target fires sentries all the time, and seems to have a magical ability to get sentry kills at the wall-in (happened against naniwa too iirc)
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United States4883 Posts
On October 21 2013 09:53 ZaloMonkada wrote:
TBH there's so much that life does that not only is it impossible to cover it all without a ~5000 word write up but we also don't have enough of a sample size. I don't know if he's always going for swarmhosts though, he just keeps it as a tech option. There's so much variation in his play that it's tough to make generalizations (which is fucking awesome)
I don't think this is true. Life uses a fair variety of strategies and timings, but I think the core ideas of his playstyle (particularly his transitions) are pretty solid. I think, although Life has an amazing innate sense intuition, he's actually a lot more methodical than a lot of people give him credit for. In his games against Naniwa, he was playing against only void ray/chargelot/storm, so it made sense for him to go for queen/SH/hydra/infestor. However, in all of his other series at IEM NY, he was playing against phoenix/colossus or some kind of phoenix into sentry/immortal or blink build. In those games, he almost invariably went for speedling pressure @7:00-9:00 followed by a hydra/ling (or roach/ling) timing followed by a fast hive and roach/hydra/viper. Most of the time he didn't transition out of that, but one game (against Zest) he started to add on corruptors and got a greater spire for a potential broodlord transition. I think if somehow the game got late enough, he would start another transition into SH/queen and everything would come full circle.
If he ever gets ahead by cancelling the 3rd nexus several times or killing several sentries, he'll usually cut some corners and skip some of his lair-tech pressure phase in favor of rushing out tech such as infestors or corruptors. This seems to be a general pattern in all of his games.
All in all, it's quite clear that a lot of his gameplay revolves around 1. putting pressure on his opponent to buy time for certain tech choices so that his subsequent pressure hits harder, and 2. having very clear transitions so that his units are always compositionally strong.
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On October 21 2013 15:33 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 09:53 ZaloMonkada wrote:
TBH there's so much that life does that not only is it impossible to cover it all without a ~5000 word write up but we also don't have enough of a sample size. I don't know if he's always going for swarmhosts though, he just keeps it as a tech option. There's so much variation in his play that it's tough to make generalizations (which is fucking awesome) I don't think this is true. Life uses a fair variety of strategies and timings, but I think the core ideas of his playstyle (particularly his transitions) are pretty solid. I think, although Life has an amazing innate sense intuition, he's actually a lot more methodical than a lot of people give him credit for. In his games against Naniwa, he was playing against only void ray/chargelot/storm, so it made sense for him to go for queen/SH/hydra/infestor. However, in all of his other series at IEM NY, he was playing against phoenix/colossus or some kind of phoenix into sentry/immortal or blink build. In those games, he almost invariably went for speedling pressure @7:00-9:00 followed by a hydra/ling (or roach/ling) timing followed by a fast hive and roach/hydra/viper. Most of the time he didn't transition out of that, but one game (against Zest) he started to add on corruptors and got a greater spire for a potential broodlord transition. I think if somehow the game got late enough, he would start another transition into SH/queen and everything would come full circle. If he ever gets ahead by cancelling the 3rd nexus several times or killing several sentries, he'll usually cut some corners and skip some of his lair-tech pressure phase in favor of rushing out tech such as infestors or corruptors. This seems to be a general pattern in all of his games. All in all, it's quite clear that a lot of his gameplay revolves around 1. putting pressure on his opponent to buy time for certain tech choices so that his subsequent pressure hits harder, and 2. having very clear transitions so that his units are always compositionally strong.
Uh ya, that's what I was saying. It's tough to make generalizations because statements like "He's wanting to build a swarm host army with queens" may not be true. Generalizations like the points OP made are easier to show, idk what you're trying to argue lol
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United States4883 Posts
On October 21 2013 16:19 ZaloMonkada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 15:33 SC2John wrote:On October 21 2013 09:53 ZaloMonkada wrote:
TBH there's so much that life does that not only is it impossible to cover it all without a ~5000 word write up but we also don't have enough of a sample size. I don't know if he's always going for swarmhosts though, he just keeps it as a tech option. There's so much variation in his play that it's tough to make generalizations (which is fucking awesome) I don't think this is true. Life uses a fair variety of strategies and timings, but I think the core ideas of his playstyle (particularly his transitions) are pretty solid. I think, although Life has an amazing innate sense intuition, he's actually a lot more methodical than a lot of people give him credit for. In his games against Naniwa, he was playing against only void ray/chargelot/storm, so it made sense for him to go for queen/SH/hydra/infestor. However, in all of his other series at IEM NY, he was playing against phoenix/colossus or some kind of phoenix into sentry/immortal or blink build. In those games, he almost invariably went for speedling pressure @7:00-9:00 followed by a hydra/ling (or roach/ling) timing followed by a fast hive and roach/hydra/viper. Most of the time he didn't transition out of that, but one game (against Zest) he started to add on corruptors and got a greater spire for a potential broodlord transition. I think if somehow the game got late enough, he would start another transition into SH/queen and everything would come full circle. If he ever gets ahead by cancelling the 3rd nexus several times or killing several sentries, he'll usually cut some corners and skip some of his lair-tech pressure phase in favor of rushing out tech such as infestors or corruptors. This seems to be a general pattern in all of his games. All in all, it's quite clear that a lot of his gameplay revolves around 1. putting pressure on his opponent to buy time for certain tech choices so that his subsequent pressure hits harder, and 2. having very clear transitions so that his units are always compositionally strong. Uh ya, that's what I was saying. It's tough to make generalizations because statements like "He's wanting to build a swarm host army with queens" may not be true. Generalizations like the points OP made are easier to show, idk what you're trying to argue lol
My point is that Life's ultimate goal is still always going to be SH/queen/hydra/infestor + hive tech/corruptors. He's wanting to build a swarm host army with queens. In games against phoenix/colossus, his opponent isn't rushing for a lategame army, meaning Life can stay in the mid game phase (roach/hydra/viper) for a lot longer. But that doesn't mean he isn't headed to SH/queen. I'm saying that although he has many variations and slight changes each game, there are very obvious undercurrents that remain the same in literally every single game he plays. He's not just going "YOLO I'M GOING ROACH/HYDRA/VIPER THIS GAME"; that's just a mid game phase in a series of transitions meant to get to the ultimate late game (SH/queen/hydra/infestor + hive tech/corruptors).
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I strongly agree with SC2John on this one.
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On October 22 2013 01:38 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 16:19 ZaloMonkada wrote:On October 21 2013 15:33 SC2John wrote:On October 21 2013 09:53 ZaloMonkada wrote:
TBH there's so much that life does that not only is it impossible to cover it all without a ~5000 word write up but we also don't have enough of a sample size. I don't know if he's always going for swarmhosts though, he just keeps it as a tech option. There's so much variation in his play that it's tough to make generalizations (which is fucking awesome) I don't think this is true. Life uses a fair variety of strategies and timings, but I think the core ideas of his playstyle (particularly his transitions) are pretty solid. I think, although Life has an amazing innate sense intuition, he's actually a lot more methodical than a lot of people give him credit for. In his games against Naniwa, he was playing against only void ray/chargelot/storm, so it made sense for him to go for queen/SH/hydra/infestor. However, in all of his other series at IEM NY, he was playing against phoenix/colossus or some kind of phoenix into sentry/immortal or blink build. In those games, he almost invariably went for speedling pressure @7:00-9:00 followed by a hydra/ling (or roach/ling) timing followed by a fast hive and roach/hydra/viper. Most of the time he didn't transition out of that, but one game (against Zest) he started to add on corruptors and got a greater spire for a potential broodlord transition. I think if somehow the game got late enough, he would start another transition into SH/queen and everything would come full circle. If he ever gets ahead by cancelling the 3rd nexus several times or killing several sentries, he'll usually cut some corners and skip some of his lair-tech pressure phase in favor of rushing out tech such as infestors or corruptors. This seems to be a general pattern in all of his games. All in all, it's quite clear that a lot of his gameplay revolves around 1. putting pressure on his opponent to buy time for certain tech choices so that his subsequent pressure hits harder, and 2. having very clear transitions so that his units are always compositionally strong. Uh ya, that's what I was saying. It's tough to make generalizations because statements like "He's wanting to build a swarm host army with queens" may not be true. Generalizations like the points OP made are easier to show, idk what you're trying to argue lol My point is that Life's ultimate goal is still always going to be SH/queen/hydra/infestor + hive tech/corruptors. He's wanting to build a swarm host army with queens. In games against phoenix/colossus, his opponent isn't rushing for a lategame army, meaning Life can stay in the mid game phase (roach/hydra/viper) for a lot longer. But that doesn't mean he isn't headed to SH/queen. I'm saying that although he has many variations and slight changes each game, there are very obvious undercurrents that remain the same in literally every single game he plays. He's not just going "YOLO I'M GOING ROACH/HYDRA/VIPER THIS GAME"; that's just a mid game phase in a series of transitions meant to get to the ultimate late game (SH/queen/hydra/infestor + hive tech/corruptors).
Ya, I still disagree with you. I think you're trying to pigeon hole life into a mold that the majority of sc2 players fit into. Players like Rain, Polt, Naniwa, Innovation, and Stephano are all considered some of the best in the world, but they play a with a different mindset than Life in that they're looking to build a specific army that can trash their opponent when they play macro games:
-In PvP, Rain has an exact comp he is always working towards
-Polt is going for a specific marauder heavy comp in TvP and trying to pressure for the remainder of the game
-Nani always wants a specific Voidray chargelot comp with ht colossi eventually
-Innovation's TvZ is identical to Polts PvT in terms of composition decisions, stay on 4M and pressure till his opponent is dead
-Stephano would always add on tech units till he reached BL/Infestor
These players are the "typical" players who try to reach a certain composition in each macro game. When they get ahead or gain momentum, they'll tech to the next "correct" tech choice in order to get their perfect army. I think Life approaches the game with a radically different mindset. When he chooses his tech, he's not thinking "Will this get me closer to my desired army?". Instead he's thinking, "How can I keep my momentum?".
Life makes tech choices with the primary goal of reacting to his opponents play. Life will go swarmhosts as a response rather than as a transition towards a goal he has set. When he sees an opponent taking a 3rd with voids, he goes swarmhosts not because he has an ideal composition he wants to reach, but rather because he has time to get up high numbers of swarmhosts safely and they're a strong choice against his composition.
If you look at the last 20 games Life has played, he either goes SH in the above situation, or on specific maps. There are just as many games where he techs to ultras without swarmhosts, where he goes mass air in response to a 3rd with SG units, where he goes roach hydra infestor and then adds on vipers, and other compositions. He'll decide his composition almost exclusively on the game state and map choice, so that he can keep momentum in his favor. He'l want something that keeps him as the aggressor, or keeps momentum in his court.
My point is that Life isn't the kind of player that goes for a composition, that's just not who he is mentally. That's a very traditional RTS mindset that many pro gamers can be clustered under but Life falls outside that clustering.
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United States4883 Posts
On October 22 2013 05:48 ZaloMonkada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 01:38 SC2John wrote:On October 21 2013 16:19 ZaloMonkada wrote:On October 21 2013 15:33 SC2John wrote:On October 21 2013 09:53 ZaloMonkada wrote:
TBH there's so much that life does that not only is it impossible to cover it all without a ~5000 word write up but we also don't have enough of a sample size. I don't know if he's always going for swarmhosts though, he just keeps it as a tech option. There's so much variation in his play that it's tough to make generalizations (which is fucking awesome) I don't think this is true. Life uses a fair variety of strategies and timings, but I think the core ideas of his playstyle (particularly his transitions) are pretty solid. I think, although Life has an amazing innate sense intuition, he's actually a lot more methodical than a lot of people give him credit for. In his games against Naniwa, he was playing against only void ray/chargelot/storm, so it made sense for him to go for queen/SH/hydra/infestor. However, in all of his other series at IEM NY, he was playing against phoenix/colossus or some kind of phoenix into sentry/immortal or blink build. In those games, he almost invariably went for speedling pressure @7:00-9:00 followed by a hydra/ling (or roach/ling) timing followed by a fast hive and roach/hydra/viper. Most of the time he didn't transition out of that, but one game (against Zest) he started to add on corruptors and got a greater spire for a potential broodlord transition. I think if somehow the game got late enough, he would start another transition into SH/queen and everything would come full circle. If he ever gets ahead by cancelling the 3rd nexus several times or killing several sentries, he'll usually cut some corners and skip some of his lair-tech pressure phase in favor of rushing out tech such as infestors or corruptors. This seems to be a general pattern in all of his games. All in all, it's quite clear that a lot of his gameplay revolves around 1. putting pressure on his opponent to buy time for certain tech choices so that his subsequent pressure hits harder, and 2. having very clear transitions so that his units are always compositionally strong. Uh ya, that's what I was saying. It's tough to make generalizations because statements like "He's wanting to build a swarm host army with queens" may not be true. Generalizations like the points OP made are easier to show, idk what you're trying to argue lol My point is that Life's ultimate goal is still always going to be SH/queen/hydra/infestor + hive tech/corruptors. He's wanting to build a swarm host army with queens. In games against phoenix/colossus, his opponent isn't rushing for a lategame army, meaning Life can stay in the mid game phase (roach/hydra/viper) for a lot longer. But that doesn't mean he isn't headed to SH/queen. I'm saying that although he has many variations and slight changes each game, there are very obvious undercurrents that remain the same in literally every single game he plays. He's not just going "YOLO I'M GOING ROACH/HYDRA/VIPER THIS GAME"; that's just a mid game phase in a series of transitions meant to get to the ultimate late game (SH/queen/hydra/infestor + hive tech/corruptors). Ya, I still disagree with you. I think you're trying to pigeon hole life into a mold that the majority of sc2 players fit into. Players like Rain, Polt, Naniwa, Innovation, and Stephano are all considered some of the best in the world, but they play a with a different mindset than Life in that they're looking to build a specific army that can trash their opponent when they play macro games: -In PvP, Rain has an exact comp he is always working towards -Polt is going for a specific marauder heavy comp in TvP and trying to pressure for the remainder of the game -Nani always wants a specific Voidray chargelot comp with ht colossi eventually -Innovation's TvZ is identical to Polts PvT in terms of composition decisions, stay on 4M and pressure till his opponent is dead -Stephano would always add on tech units till he reached BL/Infestor These players are the "typical" players who try to reach a certain composition in each macro game. When they get ahead or gain momentum, they'll tech to the next "correct" tech choice in order to get their perfect army. I think Life approaches the game with a radically different mindset. When he chooses his tech, he's not thinking "Will this get me closer to my desired army?". Instead he's thinking, "How can I keep my momentum?". Life makes tech choices with the primary goal of reacting to his opponents play. Life will go swarmhosts as a response rather than as a transition towards a goal he has set. When he sees an opponent taking a 3rd with voids, he goes swarmhosts not because he has an ideal composition he wants to reach, but rather because he has time to get up high numbers of swarmhosts safely and they're a strong choice against his composition. If you look at the last 20 games Life has played, he either goes SH in the above situation, or on specific maps. There are just as many games where he techs to ultras without swarmhosts, where he goes mass air in response to a 3rd with SG units, where he goes roach hydra infestor and then adds on vipers, and other compositions. He'll decide his composition almost exclusively on the game state and map choice, so that he can keep momentum in his favor. He'l want something that keeps him as the aggressor, or keeps momentum in his court. My point is that Life isn't the kind of player that goes for a composition, that's just not who he is mentally. That's a very traditional RTS mindset that many pro gamers can be clustered under but Life falls outside that clustering.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Perhaps I'm not stating my point correctly. I'm not trying to pigeon-hole Life into the same category as players like Naniwa, Polt, or Stephano, but I think there's a clear linkage of ideas as his army continually transitions. It's true that sometimes he skips swarm hosts entirely for fast ultras or vipers, but in a way it's simply more of an aggressive variant than a completely different strategy. It's really hard to follow exactly what Life is going for sometimes, but based on my observations from his games at IEM, I feel fairly confident I could tell you what Life is going to do every ZvP based on his opening and the momentum of the game.
I DO agree that Life's mindset is on momentum and brilliant aggression, but I don't think that the way he lets his unit composition flow is a mistake or something to be overlooked. I agree that Life plays the game in the moment and definitely prefers early and mid game aggression. However, your original post made it sound like his (seemingly limitless) variation was more random than well thought-out intricacies based on a good overall understanding of the matchup (I could have read this incorrectly). Although he reaches the end game goal more slowly than other zerg players (because of his tendency toward aggression which in turn slows down his opponent's progression toward the end game goal), he's still heading in that direction regardless.
I think Life's playstyle can be strongly contrasted with Jaedong's ZvP, which generally revolves around scouting well, pressuring when necessary, and pooling tons of money only to hard counter his opponent based on what he scouts. When comparing the two, I think Life's style has comparatively a lot more emphasis on slowly transitioning to a lategame composition.
Originally I came here to just add some of my findings to yours. I don't actually want to argue, I would like to find some common ground and pool resources so that everyone can better understand Life's gameplay and this can be a good source of information for everyone. I can't see why we can't come to the agreement that Life's ZvP could be defined as: "A very aggressive, pressure-heavy style with an emphasis on gas-light harassment and good transitional tech choices to maintain momentum and ultimately lead into a strong end game army." You supplied the ideas for the "pressure-heavy" and "gas-light harassment" style while I supplied the ideas of "good transitional tech choices". I think it's fair to say that Life focuses on both.
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Italy12246 Posts
Please remember to tag threads!
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@SC2John: You're quite articulate and very patient, I really respect that especially on the forums.
On topic, having the right composition is extremely important in ZvP nowadays. I believe Life's preferred method of not being caught wrong-footed is to gain tempo on the opponent by controlling their 3rd and forcing certain unit compositions. While this might seem reactive on the surface, it's actually the opposite as the aggressor is limiting the defender's options. You can contrast this to Jaedong's style of play in which he favors reactive play by emphasizing adding production and upgrades whenever possible (even if he does go for timings on the 3rd).
I think it's too easy to get caught up in emphasizing how each player achieves their goals (e.g. flooding with mineral heavy units and saving gas, getting upgrades quickly, tactical play with their army engagements, etc.) as these are more of a means to an end and it's easy to overlook just how deep their strategic understanding of the game is.
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On October 22 2013 09:44 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 05:48 ZaloMonkada wrote:On October 22 2013 01:38 SC2John wrote:On October 21 2013 16:19 ZaloMonkada wrote:On October 21 2013 15:33 SC2John wrote:On October 21 2013 09:53 ZaloMonkada wrote:
TBH there's so much that life does that not only is it impossible to cover it all without a ~5000 word write up but we also don't have enough of a sample size. I don't know if he's always going for swarmhosts though, he just keeps it as a tech option. There's so much variation in his play that it's tough to make generalizations (which is fucking awesome) I don't think this is true. Life uses a fair variety of strategies and timings, but I think the core ideas of his playstyle (particularly his transitions) are pretty solid. I think, although Life has an amazing innate sense intuition, he's actually a lot more methodical than a lot of people give him credit for. In his games against Naniwa, he was playing against only void ray/chargelot/storm, so it made sense for him to go for queen/SH/hydra/infestor. However, in all of his other series at IEM NY, he was playing against phoenix/colossus or some kind of phoenix into sentry/immortal or blink build. In those games, he almost invariably went for speedling pressure @7:00-9:00 followed by a hydra/ling (or roach/ling) timing followed by a fast hive and roach/hydra/viper. Most of the time he didn't transition out of that, but one game (against Zest) he started to add on corruptors and got a greater spire for a potential broodlord transition. I think if somehow the game got late enough, he would start another transition into SH/queen and everything would come full circle. If he ever gets ahead by cancelling the 3rd nexus several times or killing several sentries, he'll usually cut some corners and skip some of his lair-tech pressure phase in favor of rushing out tech such as infestors or corruptors. This seems to be a general pattern in all of his games. All in all, it's quite clear that a lot of his gameplay revolves around 1. putting pressure on his opponent to buy time for certain tech choices so that his subsequent pressure hits harder, and 2. having very clear transitions so that his units are always compositionally strong. Uh ya, that's what I was saying. It's tough to make generalizations because statements like "He's wanting to build a swarm host army with queens" may not be true. Generalizations like the points OP made are easier to show, idk what you're trying to argue lol My point is that Life's ultimate goal is still always going to be SH/queen/hydra/infestor + hive tech/corruptors. He's wanting to build a swarm host army with queens. In games against phoenix/colossus, his opponent isn't rushing for a lategame army, meaning Life can stay in the mid game phase (roach/hydra/viper) for a lot longer. But that doesn't mean he isn't headed to SH/queen. I'm saying that although he has many variations and slight changes each game, there are very obvious undercurrents that remain the same in literally every single game he plays. He's not just going "YOLO I'M GOING ROACH/HYDRA/VIPER THIS GAME"; that's just a mid game phase in a series of transitions meant to get to the ultimate late game (SH/queen/hydra/infestor + hive tech/corruptors). Ya, I still disagree with you. I think you're trying to pigeon hole life into a mold that the majority of sc2 players fit into. Players like Rain, Polt, Naniwa, Innovation, and Stephano are all considered some of the best in the world, but they play a with a different mindset than Life in that they're looking to build a specific army that can trash their opponent when they play macro games: -In PvP, Rain has an exact comp he is always working towards -Polt is going for a specific marauder heavy comp in TvP and trying to pressure for the remainder of the game -Nani always wants a specific Voidray chargelot comp with ht colossi eventually -Innovation's TvZ is identical to Polts PvT in terms of composition decisions, stay on 4M and pressure till his opponent is dead -Stephano would always add on tech units till he reached BL/Infestor These players are the "typical" players who try to reach a certain composition in each macro game. When they get ahead or gain momentum, they'll tech to the next "correct" tech choice in order to get their perfect army. I think Life approaches the game with a radically different mindset. When he chooses his tech, he's not thinking "Will this get me closer to my desired army?". Instead he's thinking, "How can I keep my momentum?". Life makes tech choices with the primary goal of reacting to his opponents play. Life will go swarmhosts as a response rather than as a transition towards a goal he has set. When he sees an opponent taking a 3rd with voids, he goes swarmhosts not because he has an ideal composition he wants to reach, but rather because he has time to get up high numbers of swarmhosts safely and they're a strong choice against his composition. If you look at the last 20 games Life has played, he either goes SH in the above situation, or on specific maps. There are just as many games where he techs to ultras without swarmhosts, where he goes mass air in response to a 3rd with SG units, where he goes roach hydra infestor and then adds on vipers, and other compositions. He'll decide his composition almost exclusively on the game state and map choice, so that he can keep momentum in his favor. He'l want something that keeps him as the aggressor, or keeps momentum in his court. My point is that Life isn't the kind of player that goes for a composition, that's just not who he is mentally. That's a very traditional RTS mindset that many pro gamers can be clustered under but Life falls outside that clustering. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Perhaps I'm not stating my point correctly. I'm not trying to pigeon-hole Life into the same category as players like Naniwa, Polt, or Stephano, but I think there's a clear linkage of ideas as his army continually transitions. It's true that sometimes he skips swarm hosts entirely for fast ultras or vipers, but in a way it's simply more of an aggressive variant than a completely different strategy. It's really hard to follow exactly what Life is going for sometimes, but based on my observations from his games at IEM, I feel fairly confident I could tell you what Life is going to do every ZvP based on his opening and the momentum of the game. I DO agree that Life's mindset is on momentum and brilliant aggression, but I don't think that the way he lets his unit composition flow is a mistake or something to be overlooked. I agree that Life plays the game in the moment and definitely prefers early and mid game aggression. However, your original post made it sound like his (seemingly limitless) variation was more random than well thought-out intricacies based on a good overall understanding of the matchup (I could have read this incorrectly). Although he reaches the end game goal more slowly than other zerg players (because of his tendency toward aggression which in turn slows down his opponent's progression toward the end game goal), he's still heading in that direction regardless. I think Life's playstyle can be strongly contrasted with Jaedong's ZvP, which generally revolves around scouting well, pressuring when necessary, and pooling tons of money only to hard counter his opponent based on what he scouts. When comparing the two, I think Life's style has comparatively a lot more emphasis on slowly transitioning to a lategame composition. Originally I came here to just add some of my findings to yours. I don't actually want to argue, I would like to find some common ground and pool resources so that everyone can better understand Life's gameplay and this can be a good source of information for everyone. I can't see why we can't come to the agreement that Life's ZvP could be defined as: "A very aggressive, pressure-heavy style with an emphasis on gas-light harassment and good transitional tech choices to maintain momentum and ultimately lead into a strong end game army." You supplied the ideas for the "pressure-heavy" and "gas-light harassment" style while I supplied the ideas of "good transitional tech choices". I think it's fair to say that Life focuses on both.
Ya we're just arguing the same points. You misunderstood me in thinking that his tech choices were "more random than well thought-out intricacies based on a good overall understanding of the matchup" and I misunderstood your ideas about tech. I think we can both agree that we were both arguing the statement "more random than well thought-out intricacies based on a good overall understanding of the matchup" the whole time
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that note about the hydra timing, where life gets hydra range so that for a short time hydras and colossus have the same range, is super sick. that's a very sharp timing.
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EPT
