EPTi.e. mechanics?
Hogwarts Mafia
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Mocsta
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i.e. mechanics? | ||
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On October 16 2013 09:59 StorrZerg wrote: Are personal coaches ok? Only if I am town, and get to coach someone on the scum team | ||
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On October 16 2013 16:55 AxleGreaser wrote: Sorry for injecting a real (yet rhetorical) question but would you be happier if the standard of play was higher or lower than some recent games? would you even if you were scum feel a greater sense of accomplishment beating a town that wasn't ripping itself to bits and imploding for you? also not actually a question in response to Mocsta After my last performance, I am not in a position to really comment on improving town. As scum though, I think a win is a win. You have to adapt to your environment, and if town is imploding and you sit there and let it run its course. That is probably a better and more viable alternative than to meddle with things, and risk town getting back on track. I think a lot of people forget that. | ||
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4 replacements + full house. | ||
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Firstly, I'm not sure why Supersoft/Toad want to release the house member distribution so eagerly? Could either of you please divulge some reasoning behind this play I know neither of them played GoT; but IIRC, the end-game discussion resulted in agreement between players/hosts that it was in towns best interest NOT to give out the house information. Though the setups are not identical, there are enough commonalities for me to conclude that the reasons in that game, pertain in this game. i.e. mafia are randomly distributed; and there is potential there is at least one house they have not corrupted. Why give this information to them for free --> especially when we don't know what type of roles they have etc. Secondly, Raynkonoshi, can you please confirm that because no posts have been signed by Rayn; you are responsible for every post made by your hydra so far? Thirdly, I have no opinion on the skanjab stuff so far. I'm acknowledging it occured because obvious thats the biggest matter going on in the thread so far; but I need to re-read it all again before stating an opinion. Lastly, I'm not sure if this is right play to do in a themed closed game. But in a normal I believe you are meant to do this. I am a self-aware miller. After my doctor fake-claims as town last game, I can understand those that refuse to believe this. So if this ends up in my lynch, so be it. | ||
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On October 17 2013 09:10 LastArgument wrote: No, it didn't, in your example town is hindered, not mafia. And to repeat, it's information mafia are very likely in possession of already, whereas town are not. Why are you finding this difficult to comprehend? Out of everything in the thread thus far. Why is it that you are purely commenting on that item? Can you guarantee scum know who is what house? Heres a tidbit.. in GoT... a player took the exact same stance you did... that player flipped scum What is your opinion on the rest of the thread; for example, what do you make of I-Be-So-Pro interchanges with Supersoft. | ||
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On October 17 2013 09:21 LastArgument wrote: You didn't answer my question, Mocsta. I presume you are referring to: On October 17 2013 08:57 LastArgument wrote: The game is a closed setup. Anything I think outside my role is WIFOM.I don't understand any of this reasoning. The only situation where mafia don't understand the exact player make-up of each house is when all the mafia are stacked in 1 or 2 houses. If they're in 3 houses they can obviously deduce the fourth. A mathematician will probably be able to tell you how likely it is that all mafia are in 2 or fewer houses, but I don't think the probability is very high. What information do you think mafia are being given by releasing the members of people's houses then? As I said before;
if town, the answer to both of the above should be no. So why give out mafia free information? Does this information help out town, more than it could help out mafia - I doubt it. Given that, why are you interjecting from Toad/Supersoft to divulge their reasoning? The sole basis of your argument is mathematics, when you, yourself have not provided any calculations other than your word stating it is "highly unlikely" which segues with the below. & The facts of the situation are that mafia very likely know who is in each house, and town do not know. Therefore giving town information that mafia are likely in possession of already is going to be a net benefit. You mention vague waffling; please explain why what you are espousing is the "Fact of the situation"What's the actual counter-argument to this other than vague waffling? Now that I answered your question. I will say again: On October 17 2013 09:18 Mocsta wrote: Out of everything in the thread thus far. Why is it that you are purely commenting on that item? Can you guarantee scum know who is what house? Heres a tidbit.. in GoT... a player took the exact same stance you did... that player flipped scum What is your opinion on the rest of the thread; for example, what do you make of I-Be-So-Pro interchanges with Supersoft. | ||
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On October 17 2013 09:37 Hopeless1der wrote: I inadvertently provided a poor example, and you're right my example shows why it would be good for town to know. Good news: I changed my mind and think you're right. Giving the information out keeps those who want it from claiming blue. However I want to read the GoT endgame discussion and setup before I do anything rash. Considering you asked me to look into Skanjab deeper. Why have you shown zero concern for LastArgument doing the same? | ||
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On October 17 2013 09:45 Hopeless1der wrote: I got sidetracked with his questioning moclogic and I'm still on my phone. You claiming miller and skanj still being fresh in my mind made me ask you since you were around. Firstly, only Geript says moclogic; so I'm not sure why you are coining the phrase suddenly. Secondly, out of everything in the thread (including skanjab and my SAM claim) - now that it has been pointed out - are you not concerned that LastArgument still chooses to not comment? Lastly, what is your current read on LastArgument? | ||
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Two of the big differences between GoT and this is: #1 - that was 6 houses of 4 #2 - houses had a lord with KP power As already pointed out, the only way mafia do not know the house distribution is if mafia is confined to two houses. So yes, I can see the point of view that mafia perhaps have this information already. I still dont understand how it would help to scum hunt, in particular Day1? We still have the flexibility to lynch any of the 24 people in the game - regardless of house. Aside from LastArgument, citing "information equality" I don't see a benefit; especially given a closed setup. That's all I have to say on the matter. I am not pleased with how LastArgument has gone about his business; but that does not necessarily make him scummy. Guarantees he is a douche though. Gotta re-read. Ciao. | ||
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On October 17 2013 15:15 Holyflare wrote: Also mocsta etc. Why did you leave so much out in your first post??? ? | ||
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On October 17 2013 17:16 yamato77 wrote: I mean, as town, why would the setup be the only thing you want to talk about? It makes more sense that he does this as mafia, in my opinion. I'm not 100%, but he's on the list. Interesting. I didn't take him to be a new player based on how manipulative I felt he was when conversing. Perhaps hes new to this forum; but I doubt he is new of mafia/debating. For me personally, I don't have confidence to assign his obsession with houses as a hardline town/scum tell. Other than the manipulation aspect: What I don't like, is how he went ad-hom into Hopeless1der to propel his argument. I am not sure what to make of how quickly Hopeless1der caved in, either. | ||
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On October 17 2013 17:25 Holyflare wrote: I have a distaste for koshi :/ Apparently it's really obvious when he's playing town or scum but I never see it, it's always spam to me. As for rayn I've only played 1 game with him and he was scum, I would be confident identifying his traits if he displayed them though. In terms of their posts so far. Toad was being aggressive on Skan and koshi jumped all over him after that, seemed a bit overloaded over something so small. Skan made sense for one or two of his points but there was still a lot of pointless nitpicking going on, on koshi's end. He kinda went absent after that so not sure if he was around for the rest of the conversations but Skan is also new so his responses are of course going to be flustered, would have assumed koshi would look at something like that instead of being so biased. These thoughts are synonymous with my own. My additions: Koshi surprised me, not with the spam, but the early try-hard "case". Toad is in my house, and said hes in class. I liked Toad nitpicking Supersoft on the our/town thing. But i find it really weird his response to my SAM claim. In the QT/thread he claims to have an anti-town role; but is of the opinion that 3 people in our house could have anti-town roles. That just confuses the fuck out of me. I thought Supersoft assessment was on point for Toad. Hes on hold for now - and is certainly not worth considering. If Pandain wants to give Grack a meta read based on Thug Life. My personal opinion is that Pandain is looking better than he did in Noir. I will give him slight town lean based on meta; and hopefully he can firm that up as the game proceeds. On Yamato: Im at loggerheads. Im pissed he suggested I was scum earlier and am somewhat dismayed by his lack of aura/presence when entering the thread. However, I like his pick-up on Mattchew as I felt the same way. On Syllo: I don't get the feeling from this game that he is interested in solving it/progressing it. The pressure on pandain didn't feel natural; and was dropped too easily/conveniently for my liking. Has anyone here played with Syllo enough to confirm if he is a slow starter? | ||
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On October 14 2013 05:47 EchelonTee wrote: slytherin pls Funny in hindsight So... with the toad dislike stuff. Are you writing that there to: - Clear ya chest? - Receive thread feedback? - Receive a response from Toad? - Insert other? Out of curiosity; assuming you wanted a response from Toad, why not ask in the QT? Or did you want this to be a highlight in the thread? | ||
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I guess that is why you are meant to F5 before posting. lol | ||
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On October 17 2013 18:34 EchelonTee wrote: Other than Toad not wanting you to dislike his play; there is nothing written here that Toad has to address. I really, really dislike this. The QT's are basically imperfect mason circles; while a mason circle with confirmed townies is extremely powerful to bounce reads off one another, one that almost definitely has scum in it is very open to manipulation. Any interesting information (people's town lists anyone?) that is listed in a QT, but not in the thread will still make it to the scum, giving them an edge. The QTs are also inferior compared to PM circles, as you can pick and choose who you PM and try to get share information only with people you believe to be town. The majority of the activity should be in thread. I don't doubt that Toad will be active in the thread, but hidden information in QTs is decisively negative. I'm also still considering if the town as a whole should decide on how to use the prizes from challenges or not; putting it up to a town vote would 1.) generate healthy discussion, 2.)allow the town to have more control how these power items will be used. In essence, your contribution was written as a generic observation or musing; henceforth my query. Perhaps i should have added that there is a Slytherin QT post from ET that suggests he finds Toad difficult to read/play with; but I don't see how that would have significant bearing. Lastly, On October 17 2013 18:59 EchelonTee wrote: 3.) receive a response from toad. That's why I quoted him instead of generally talking about QTs. Your post is quoted above. I did not see any Toad quotes? Again, I find it comprehend how this post in question invites any meaningful dialogue from the target (Toad). | ||
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ET Take a chill pill. This is the last I will say on the matter. Toad dislike stuff => You were talking about Toad & disliking an aspect of his play. Stop contorting what I am writing. Its plain & clear. As for the remainder; we can agree to disagree. Maybe old-school, new-school play different, i don't really care. i thought what you wrote is purely an observation on someone that is difficult to read.. so whats the point at this stage in the game. In my opinion if you were seeking genuine thread feedback; the effort is misplaced/unproductive. Everyone agrees Toad is hard to read; move on to the other scum targets. Hence why I thought it was a conversation more pertinent to the QT regardless of your stance on QT activity. Thats my PoV. I dont care if you take it or leave it. | ||
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On October 17 2013 19:41 LastArgument wrote: Yeah re-read. I take back the Hopeless ad-hom. I mis-read. Fair comment from you.+ Show Spoiler + On October 17 2013 17:23 Mocsta wrote: Interesting. I didn't take him to be a new player based on how manipulative I felt he was when conversing. Perhaps hes new to this forum; but I doubt he is new of mafia/debating. For me personally, I don't have confidence to assign his obsession with houses as a hardline town/scum tell. Other than the manipulation aspect: What I don't like, is how he went ad-hom into Hopeless1der to propel his argument. I am not sure what to make of how quickly Hopeless1der caved in, either. Please explain what was ad-hom about my arguments. And why my arguments were in any way incorrect (they were not). Hopeless1der jumped all over me for questioning your post about the house reveal. In fact I would say he defended you quite irrationally, saying you were pro-town even if your logic might be incorrect (?). Further, he then tried to discredit the point of view I was putting forth by proposing an example of a player with a certain ability. On October 17 2013 09:01 Hopeless1der wrote: (Completely made up ability) polyjuice potion/roleblock and infiltrate target [house] player's QT. This ability fails if you guess the targets house incorrectly. Mocsta's tone is definitely protown, even if you don't like the logic. and furthered this with the not-very-rigorous Closed setups and contests and whatnot as a reason. In effect, Hopeless attempted to fabricate a scenario to discredit my point of view, as in the quote above, while at the same time telling me there was 'zero' potential benefit for revealing house members. He later backed down and agreed with me, perhaps realising that he was on the losing side of the argument with me. In addition, Hopeless repeatedly pressed Skanjab for a name that he was mysteriously referring to in one of his posts. He asked him again and again and again; finally Skanjab provided a name and Hopeless didn't even comment on it. What was the purpose of this? Finally Hopeless provides a "town side of null" read to me, which seems quite out of place given the condescension he used in his arguments with me. It's worth repeating that Pandain pointed out that Cephiro made a substantial post of sorts in his house-QT without posting in the thread. Tunkeg also made a fairly irrelevant post in our QT without any followup in thread. These are two players I would usually associate with getting stuck into the action. I agree that the town read on you was odd; as was his reaction to my SAM claim. If you want to talk about people posting in the QT but not the thread. Sn0 has made a handful of minor comments in the QT; and Skanjab has been active as well. Between the two, I have found Skanjab posts in the QT of more use than Sn0. Its hard to paraphrase though. | ||
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Been flat out at work; but caught up and re-read. I am comfortable with a lynch on the following people: Zaragon/Blazinghand Mattchew Onegu I don't care which of the three. These are people I am watching carefully; frankly, some of them would be in the above list if it wasn't for reputation: Syllogism Toad Sn0_Man or StorrZerg Complete Unknowns: Tunkeg Vayne Stutters Palmar The White Elephant in the Room On October 17 2013 23:27 Palmar wrote: @Mocsta: Why did you claim the self-aware miller? What's the point? What did you hope to achieve? (1) Why did I claim self-aware miller? On October 17 2013 08:30 Mocsta wrote: I'm not sure if this is right play to do in a themed closed game. But in a normal I believe you are meant to do this. (2) Whats the point? IIRC, your video of "?Hero Mafia?" you went into the theoretical aspects of claiming SAM; and the outcome was to always claim the role as town. The point was to make the right play for town. (3) What was I hoping to achieve? I played really bad last game. Really bad. I have also been framed two games in a row (with a cop check). People find me hard to read. I was trying to be open with town and provide information that could help them. Either, policy lynch me; or obtain a read on me by judging my play, not a cop check (as has been the case recently) Mocsta, you're a dickhead.. you can't nominate people for lynch without reasoning KK, fair call. Zaragon His filter reads as try-hard to me. As in, he is *TRYING* to replicate aspects of his play from last game in Noir. In that game, I did a very deep stream of analysis on him and correctly diciphered town. His approach to the game is different, and its the small things that I noticed being different. Let me be selfish, and use a quote directed at me to explain: On October 17 2013 23:24 Zaragon wrote: On Mocsta, so far I'm getting the same vibe I had early Noir, towny by personality read with some suspicious hints. I'll put a light town lean on him. Honestly, maybe more than light, considering how that game turned out. This is a backhand compliment in its truest form. If you pay careful attention to zaragons posts here you will notice he is struggling to post; and when he does, they are all town reads essentially. Even when it comes to me; he tries to insinuate suspicion, but then can not follow through. This type of interaction is non-existent in Noir. Though he was a man of few words (as is the case here); there was a congruency in his posts which is absent in this game. BH the replacement doesn't look to be offering anything of value, either. Thus, I am comfortable with this slot being lynched. Mattchew He also had a shitty filter in Noir; and I did make a case on him that gained traction for a period of time (but he was town). Even though this filter is also shitty; in Noir, he still pushed an agenda (that was completely against the grain - lynch town marv). This game, he just feels like he is floating about, making side comments here and there and trying to ascertain what sticks. One of my biggest qualms with Mattchew is his timely delurk when Yamato enters the thread to comment on Raynkonoshi. On October 17 2013 10:38 Mattchew wrote: yo yam, does that mean your thinking what im thinking If Mattchew, really thought the same thing; why does he +1 instead of be an originator? (This is the best representation of floating to see what sticks) Also, On October 17 2013 10:58 Mattchew wrote: nothing, other than that he claimed miller in the first post and that was either really bold play as mafia or smart play as town On October 17 2013 10:59 Mattchew wrote: i want to change my use of "smart" to "correct" This sequence of posts has been bugging me, ever since it occurred. Specifically, why the need to insert this correction. Maybe I am reading into this too much; but, what clicked with me is the connotation. Bold vs Smart. Bold vs Correct. To me: "Correct" infers the alignment is unknown. As its standard play, standard procedure. The action becomes null as either alignment would do it. e.g. breaking up an argument in the thread -> the action can be the correct play for either alignment (its how you go about doing it that counts). Whereas, "Smart" I think is a much stronger word that actually infers he has a town read on me and is of the same opinion. i.e {If I was in his shoes, I would do the same thing - thats a smart thing to do} The point being; I think the word choice of smart was not congruent with his actions (to suggest I be auto-lynched). I think he realised this was a mental slip, and hence, had the urge to clarify in the thread --> when essentially no one else made a big deal of it. Like I said, call this nitpicking or whatever. It is my opinion. Onegu ET hit the apologetic theme on the head. Further, when he has caught up, the items he is bringing up to the fore have already been discussed. Nothing new of value is being proposed. | ||
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