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Active: 9794 users

Massive changes to Longinus

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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1 2 3 Next All
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-09 21:30:43
August 09 2006 21:28 GMT
#1
Current Version
[image loading]


Old Version
[image loading]


1. The tileset is now Jungle, instead of Twilight. Why? Because...

2. Only Jungle has a tile called "raised jungle." Raised jungle is important because it is the only tile in all of Starcraft that is a) higher than ground yet b)does not impede vision

... and this tile was used to make the borders for the mains in the new Longinus.

Thus, Longinus has Guillotine/Cultivation Period - like same-level chokes created by walls, except units have vision as if it were flat land.

As far as I know, this is the first time a main was constructed like this, so it should be interesting. Sorry Terrans.

3. There are now 10 mineral clumps in the main, instead of 9 from before. Sorry Zergs.

4. The expansions at 12, 5, and 9 are now only accessible by small units (like 815) and are not connected to the middle ground.

5. The middle ground is now mostly un-buildable terrain.




Two other bits of important map news

1. The neutral warp gates that were at each expo spot in Arkanoid have been replaced by four zerg cocoons with 250hp each(Kerrigan's cocoon from old missions). Who knows how this changes gameplay.

2. Changes made to New Peaks of Baekdu:
a) one of the two ramps to the main is blocked by a small patch of minerals
b) there is now gas at the nat (!!!)
c) the ramp to the cliff that leads from the nat to the middle has been enlarged.
returns upon momentous occasions.
Myxomatosis
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States2392 Posts
August 09 2006 21:33 GMT
#2
wow neat. i thought terrans would own up longinus so maybe not as much now ;-!
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
August 09 2006 21:34 GMT
#3
Longinus looks interesting. Hopefully it won't be yet another P>T>Z>P map.
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
Reason
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United Kingdom2770 Posts
August 09 2006 21:40 GMT
#4
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?
Speak properly, and in as few words as you can, but always plainly; for the end of speech is not ostentation, but to be understood.
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
August 09 2006 21:46 GMT
#5
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?


Usually, the problem is if a map is somewhat balanced PvZ, then it'll be horribly T>>Z
Terrans just have the best map adaptability... those stim-addicted bastards.
returns upon momentous occasions.
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
August 09 2006 21:49 GMT
#6
nice.

sick of Luna tileset
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
IamLove
Profile Joined October 2004
252 Posts
August 09 2006 21:50 GMT
#7
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?

Mercury, Bifrost
infecteddna
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Slovenia243 Posts
August 09 2006 21:53 GMT
#8
lance pierces moon! moon no jungle!!111
tKd_
Profile Joined February 2005
United States2916 Posts
August 09 2006 21:55 GMT
#9
isn't z>p in bifrost
SP)diQ
Profile Joined May 2005
1107 Posts
August 09 2006 21:59 GMT
#10
On August 10 2006 06:50 IamLove wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?

Mercury, Bifrost

PvT on these maps is as ugly as PvZ :/
Reason
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United Kingdom2770 Posts
August 09 2006 22:05 GMT
#11
On August 10 2006 06:59 SP)diQ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2006 06:50 IamLove wrote:
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?

Mercury, Bifrost

PvT on these maps is as ugly as PvZ :/

If that's the case then the answer has not yet been found. I don't understand every aspect of this game, I don't think anyone does, and I'm not an experienced map creater either, but what I'm getting at is that if the reasons for P>T on a map are the same for Z>P on a map, then if we make a map which is completely balanced PvT we won't have such Z>P imbalances. I'm probably wrong, but this P>T>Z>P scenario must have a reason...
All responses welcome.
Speak properly, and in as few words as you can, but always plainly; for the end of speech is not ostentation, but to be understood.
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-09 22:19:40
August 09 2006 22:17 GMT
#12
On August 10 2006 07:05 Reason wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2006 06:59 SP)diQ wrote:
On August 10 2006 06:50 IamLove wrote:
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?

Mercury, Bifrost

PvT on these maps is as ugly as PvZ :/

If that's the case then the answer has not yet been found. I don't understand every aspect of this game, I don't think anyone does, and I'm not an experienced map creater either, but what I'm getting at is that if the reasons for P>T on a map are the same for Z>P on a map, then if we make a map which is completely balanced PvT we won't have such Z>P imbalances. I'm probably wrong, but this P>T>Z>P scenario must have a reason...
All responses welcome.

It usually just comes down to travel distances between expansions and large center area battleground and flanking opportunities. P wants that against T just like Z wants that against P. So I think 3 player maps are -in theory- bad for PvZ, since zerg can get the extra main and not protoss etc.

But games on this map may turn out cool anyway so.
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
August 09 2006 22:20 GMT
#13
in general p>t and z>p tend to come together because the same map styles account for both. large open spaces good for mass unit maneuvering and flanking. not too easy for t (in pvt) and p (in zvp) to secure econ safely, but easy enough for the opposing races to get enough econ to get their large masses going.

http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-09 22:41:12
August 09 2006 22:36 GMT
#14
Wait, on second thought, I forgot about the narrow ramp, so protoss may treat the highground expansions like islands and secure their third gas (for PvZ). This may very well be a greatly balanced map for all matchups, only question remaining then TvZ, since terran should be able to use those ramps and highground for something TvP. Awesome.
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3505 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-09 23:00:50
August 09 2006 22:56 GMT
#15
--- Nuked ---
SP)diQ
Profile Joined May 2005
1107 Posts
August 09 2006 23:19 GMT
#16
Min only is there 2 allow P double expo PvT as a counter 2 T fast CC.
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
August 09 2006 23:31 GMT
#17
On August 10 2006 08:19 SP)diQ wrote:
Min only is there 2 allow P double expo PvT as a counter 2 T fast CC.

Terran can't fast expo here easily or at all. There's no ramp to defend main.
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
TaDa1.
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
655 Posts
August 09 2006 23:35 GMT
#18
wow, seem to be very interesting, btw, what will pgt map pack be next season?
sos bomber stork savior fan ^ http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/5160596/1/WXZ/achievements/category/4377898
Death-Link
Profile Joined March 2004
Greece126 Posts
August 09 2006 23:37 GMT
#19
The amount of minerals that has been placed on Longinus is much higher than any other map I can think of. 10 at main, 8 at nat, 7 at min only and 8 at 2nd gas expo is alot and this will definately favour toss players imo. Just compare it with LT for example (8+8+6) or Luna (9+7+6) or some other map.

And also this is only the 2nd map after Neo Forte with 10 minerals at the mains.

Things like these do have an impact on the game, and I don't see many people taking this into consideration when judging a map for balance. Just my opinion.
I hate journalists...
NonYold
Profile Joined April 2004
United States2814 Posts
August 09 2006 23:48 GMT
#20
It looks like a really fun map. I hope it's included in PGT10
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