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On August 10 2006 08:31 Luhh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2006 08:19 SP)diQ wrote:
Min only is there 2 allow P double expo PvT as a counter 2 T fast CC. Terran can't fast expo here easily or at all. There's no ramp to defend main.
I disagree, I think games on this map will use build orders very similar to the ones we saw at Blizzcon , Signal really comes to mind. A depot and a rax looks like it would make a semi-wall (big enough to let units walk through, but only in line formation). So I think you would be safe for the most part. At a closer look, mutalisks look like they are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to harrassing workers, there is really no inaccessable terran behind any of the naturals, and the mains are situated quite safely.
edit: I was talking about TvZ  , but I think on TvP you will be safe as well, as the base distance looks quite far to begin with, and you can probably position tanks behind the wall that surrounds your main to snipe units setting up for an attack.
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I'm afraid the gas at nat on Peaks of Baekdu will make it a greatly zerg favouring map, especially in ZvT
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On August 10 2006 08:37 Death-Link wrote:The amount of minerals that has been placed on Longinus is much higher than any other map I can think of. 10 at main, 8 at nat, 7 at min only and 8 at 2nd gas expo is alot and this will definately favour toss players imo. Just compare it with LT for example (8+8+6) or Luna (9+7+6) or some other map. And also this is only the 2nd map after Neo Forte with 10 minerals at the mains. Things like these do have an impact on the game, and I don't see many people taking this into consideration when judging a map for balance. Just my opinion. 
Yeah, I remember seeing a highlight on the old version of Longinus, it was a PvT and very much a macro game terrant trying push and protoss trying to rebutt keeping his expansions alive. The toss won in the end in that game.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?
Bifrost, P=T Z>>>P
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On August 10 2006 06:28 HonestTea wrote:
1. The tileset is now Jungle, instead of Twilight. Why? Because...
2. Only Jungle has a tile called "raised jungle." Raised jungle is important because it is the only tile in all of Starcraft that is a) higher than ground yet b)does not impede vision
R-Point? Aren't the islands on R-point higher ground yet you can still see them.
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On August 10 2006 09:14 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ? Bifrost, P=T Z>>>P
unless FA is playing then its definately P >> Z
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
On August 10 2006 10:36 [X]Ken_D wrote:
R-Point? Aren't the islands on R-point higher ground yet you can still see them.
Bingo. Yep.
On Longinus though, it's the first time that they used that terrain for the main.
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On August 10 2006 09:14 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ? Bifrost, P=T Z>>>P
Yeah, I was about to say....
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Why exactly do map makers change the number of mins in main? Can anyone tell me what effects this has on balance. I know some builds are only possible with 9 min blocks etc, and that with 10 blocks you can support 4 gates
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
On August 10 2006 11:08 ShabZzoY! wrote:
Why exactly do map makers change the number of mins in main? Can anyone tell me what effects this has on balance. I know some builds are only possible with 9 min blocks etc, and that with 10 blocks you can support 4 gates
Think of it this way.
A marine is 50 min. One min cluster has 1500 min. In TvZ, that's 30 extra marines, which will make a big difference. On the other hand, 1500 extra minerals is 60 zerglings, but in ZvT against MnM+tank those extra zerglins won't make a big difference. Zerg needs to counter mmf with lurkers or defilers, which take gas gas gas.
In TvP, Tosses usually get the most milage out of extra minerals because zealots, goons, and shuttles are all very important units but they are mineral-intensive. To counter that, Terran needs tanks, so he has to worry about gas.
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
I get the feeling this map will make for some very interesting games. Can't wait to see it in action. ^_^
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Braavos36374 Posts
(sorry) OFF TOPIC
every time i look at this thread i just crack up, it always reminds me of the word "longina" which means a large, loose vagina
so when the topic is like "massive changes to longinus"
its just a word that is inherently dirty
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On August 10 2006 11:08 ShabZzoY! wrote:
Why exactly do map makers change the number of mins in main? Can anyone tell me what effects this has on balance. I know some builds are only possible with 9 min blocks etc, and that with 10 blocks you can support 4 gates
HonestTea explained it well, so I'd just add to his the fact that both terran and protoss almost always goes for continuous worker production while zerg must balance with unit and larvae. So zerg not only prefers gas instead of minerals, but also their lower worker count means their benefit compared to 8 only patches is less than the benefit protoss and terran receives.
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Oh god why do they keep adding the amount of minerals in the mains? now you can make as much shit off of one base as you can on hunters, which is a gay map.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
hm well there are more reasons why hunters aint too good a map, other than mineral patch #s so...
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It's possible to play a low tank / high vult game TvP, but it's kind of tricky to do on Bifrost, so you have to take that 2nd gas base.
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EPT
