• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:51
CEST 02:51
KST 09:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down11ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League54Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid?
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? Bot on ladder [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Sagi.gg Launcher Released Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group Stage
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9174 users

Massive changes to Longinus

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-09 21:30:43
August 09 2006 21:28 GMT
#1
Current Version
[image loading]


Old Version
[image loading]


1. The tileset is now Jungle, instead of Twilight. Why? Because...

2. Only Jungle has a tile called "raised jungle." Raised jungle is important because it is the only tile in all of Starcraft that is a) higher than ground yet b)does not impede vision

... and this tile was used to make the borders for the mains in the new Longinus.

Thus, Longinus has Guillotine/Cultivation Period - like same-level chokes created by walls, except units have vision as if it were flat land.

As far as I know, this is the first time a main was constructed like this, so it should be interesting. Sorry Terrans.

3. There are now 10 mineral clumps in the main, instead of 9 from before. Sorry Zergs.

4. The expansions at 12, 5, and 9 are now only accessible by small units (like 815) and are not connected to the middle ground.

5. The middle ground is now mostly un-buildable terrain.




Two other bits of important map news

1. The neutral warp gates that were at each expo spot in Arkanoid have been replaced by four zerg cocoons with 250hp each(Kerrigan's cocoon from old missions). Who knows how this changes gameplay.

2. Changes made to New Peaks of Baekdu:
a) one of the two ramps to the main is blocked by a small patch of minerals
b) there is now gas at the nat (!!!)
c) the ramp to the cliff that leads from the nat to the middle has been enlarged.
returns upon momentous occasions.
Myxomatosis
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States2392 Posts
August 09 2006 21:33 GMT
#2
wow neat. i thought terrans would own up longinus so maybe not as much now ;-!
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
August 09 2006 21:34 GMT
#3
Longinus looks interesting. Hopefully it won't be yet another P>T>Z>P map.
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
Reason
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United Kingdom2770 Posts
August 09 2006 21:40 GMT
#4
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?
Speak properly, and in as few words as you can, but always plainly; for the end of speech is not ostentation, but to be understood.
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
August 09 2006 21:46 GMT
#5
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?


Usually, the problem is if a map is somewhat balanced PvZ, then it'll be horribly T>>Z
Terrans just have the best map adaptability... those stim-addicted bastards.
returns upon momentous occasions.
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
August 09 2006 21:49 GMT
#6
nice.

sick of Luna tileset
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
IamLove
Profile Joined October 2004
252 Posts
August 09 2006 21:50 GMT
#7
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?

Mercury, Bifrost
infecteddna
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Slovenia243 Posts
August 09 2006 21:53 GMT
#8
lance pierces moon! moon no jungle!!111
tKd_
Profile Joined February 2005
United States2916 Posts
August 09 2006 21:55 GMT
#9
isn't z>p in bifrost
SP)diQ
Profile Joined May 2005
1107 Posts
August 09 2006 21:59 GMT
#10
On August 10 2006 06:50 IamLove wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?

Mercury, Bifrost

PvT on these maps is as ugly as PvZ :/
Reason
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United Kingdom2770 Posts
August 09 2006 22:05 GMT
#11
On August 10 2006 06:59 SP)diQ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2006 06:50 IamLove wrote:
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?

Mercury, Bifrost

PvT on these maps is as ugly as PvZ :/

If that's the case then the answer has not yet been found. I don't understand every aspect of this game, I don't think anyone does, and I'm not an experienced map creater either, but what I'm getting at is that if the reasons for P>T on a map are the same for Z>P on a map, then if we make a map which is completely balanced PvT we won't have such Z>P imbalances. I'm probably wrong, but this P>T>Z>P scenario must have a reason...
All responses welcome.
Speak properly, and in as few words as you can, but always plainly; for the end of speech is not ostentation, but to be understood.
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-09 22:19:40
August 09 2006 22:17 GMT
#12
On August 10 2006 07:05 Reason wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2006 06:59 SP)diQ wrote:
On August 10 2006 06:50 IamLove wrote:
On August 10 2006 06:40 Reason wrote:
Is there a possible correlation between a map where P>T and the Z>P?
Could those imbalanced be present for the same reasons?
Could a map perfectly balanced PvT be extremely imba ZvP ?

Mercury, Bifrost

PvT on these maps is as ugly as PvZ :/

If that's the case then the answer has not yet been found. I don't understand every aspect of this game, I don't think anyone does, and I'm not an experienced map creater either, but what I'm getting at is that if the reasons for P>T on a map are the same for Z>P on a map, then if we make a map which is completely balanced PvT we won't have such Z>P imbalances. I'm probably wrong, but this P>T>Z>P scenario must have a reason...
All responses welcome.

It usually just comes down to travel distances between expansions and large center area battleground and flanking opportunities. P wants that against T just like Z wants that against P. So I think 3 player maps are -in theory- bad for PvZ, since zerg can get the extra main and not protoss etc.

But games on this map may turn out cool anyway so.
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
August 09 2006 22:20 GMT
#13
in general p>t and z>p tend to come together because the same map styles account for both. large open spaces good for mass unit maneuvering and flanking. not too easy for t (in pvt) and p (in zvp) to secure econ safely, but easy enough for the opposing races to get enough econ to get their large masses going.

http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-09 22:41:12
August 09 2006 22:36 GMT
#14
Wait, on second thought, I forgot about the narrow ramp, so protoss may treat the highground expansions like islands and secure their third gas (for PvZ). This may very well be a greatly balanced map for all matchups, only question remaining then TvZ, since terran should be able to use those ramps and highground for something TvP. Awesome.
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3505 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-09 23:00:50
August 09 2006 22:56 GMT
#15
--- Nuked ---
SP)diQ
Profile Joined May 2005
1107 Posts
August 09 2006 23:19 GMT
#16
Min only is there 2 allow P double expo PvT as a counter 2 T fast CC.
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
August 09 2006 23:31 GMT
#17
On August 10 2006 08:19 SP)diQ wrote:
Min only is there 2 allow P double expo PvT as a counter 2 T fast CC.

Terran can't fast expo here easily or at all. There's no ramp to defend main.
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
TaDa1.
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
655 Posts
August 09 2006 23:35 GMT
#18
wow, seem to be very interesting, btw, what will pgt map pack be next season?
sos bomber stork savior fan ^ http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/5160596/1/WXZ/achievements/category/4377898
Death-Link
Profile Joined March 2004
Greece126 Posts
August 09 2006 23:37 GMT
#19
The amount of minerals that has been placed on Longinus is much higher than any other map I can think of. 10 at main, 8 at nat, 7 at min only and 8 at 2nd gas expo is alot and this will definately favour toss players imo. Just compare it with LT for example (8+8+6) or Luna (9+7+6) or some other map.

And also this is only the 2nd map after Neo Forte with 10 minerals at the mains.

Things like these do have an impact on the game, and I don't see many people taking this into consideration when judging a map for balance. Just my opinion.
I hate journalists...
NonYold
Profile Joined April 2004
United States2814 Posts
August 09 2006 23:48 GMT
#20
It looks like a really fun map. I hope it's included in PGT10
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
08:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #21
CranKy Ducklings89
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 126
ViBE98
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2654
GuemChi 1844
Artosis 668
ProTech162
910 49
Dota 2
monkeys_forever607
NeuroSwarm128
febbydoto4
League of Legends
Doublelift5097
JimRising 460
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr89
Other Games
summit1g8303
shahzam562
C9.Mang0341
PiGStarcraft266
ToD203
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 54
• Hupsaiya 23
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 19
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1055
Other Games
• Shiphtur648
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Summer Champion…
10h 9m
Harstem vs Zoun
Harstem vs GgMaChine
GgMaChine vs Lambo
Harstem vs Lambo
GgMaChine vs Zoun
Lambo vs Zoun
OSC
13h 9m
Big Brain Bouts
15h 9m
FEL
1d 8h
Patches Events
1d 12h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 16h
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-20
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.