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70 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/ambientphoto/Overviews_zps65185b7b.png)
Night Shade By Caviar
Uploaded to Battlenet NA
Players: 4 (Cross-Spawn 1v1)
Bounds: 160x160 (playable)
Here is my most recent project.There are some aesthetics done to the map so far. The Textures are similar to what I am going to use but that's it.
Like most of my maps I wanted to create a unique layout. Since I have been really interested in safe naturals recently I wanted to put that towards a four player map and this is the result. Im rather proud of this one, It feels different.
As always feedback, suggestions, problems, are all welcomed.
Update - 4-20-2013
Shrank size of Base ramp
Increased size of Natural ramp
Altered Mid Significantly
Moved Towers high ground.
Natural Texture change.
Aesthetics improvements
Poll: Good layout?yes (20) 59% kinda (7) 21% no (7) 21% 34 total votes Your vote: Good layout? (Vote): yes
(Vote): kinda
(Vote): no
Other Maps by Caviar
Initiation
Frigid Storage
I stream my progress on maps @ Twitch.tv/caviiar
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Oh god I love this kind of funky maps, I wish more maps like these could be played ! This layout is very good imo.
My only concern is the middle, 4 xel naga tower and small ramps. Why not trying an Antiga shpiyard-ish middle with only one xel naga tower ?
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Shouldn't the ramp leading out of the main be a 1FF, and the ramp leading down into the pseudo in-base natural be a 2FF? (or both could be 1 FF, i suppose)
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In my opinion, there's going to be a strong positional advantage if you spawn clockwise from your opponent. You will have easier access to the natural's backdoor and yours will be more protected. I think the main ramp should probably be 1x and the one into the natural could be a 2x ramp. Having a 2x ramp into the middle is controversial, especially if there is already an alternate route into the base via the natural.
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I think this is going to be a really cool map to play on. The mid and late game on this map is going to be filled with so many cool dynamics. Controlling the middle and is watchtowers are probably going to be very important on this map, as they overlook the thirds (or fourths, if you decide to take the expo by your natural instead of your main). Now about the double wide ramp to the middle... Is this to compensate for the easily defensible in base natural? It could be interesting to see how it plays out.
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70 Posts
On April 13 2013 00:54 Chronocube wrote:
Now about the double wide ramp to the middle... Is this to compensate for the easily defensible in base natural? It could be interesting to see how it plays out.
That was the idea behind the design. One of the reasons why I chose the safe natural is to mix up ZvZ. Safe naturals seem to make the early game zvz play less predictable. But I didn't want to really alter the other match ups to wildly. So having the double wide ramp aswell as a backdoor to counteract 2 base all in's every game.
Now if it plays out like that is yet to be known. But that was my idea behind it.
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If I were to play a game on this map, I would expand behind me, then as a third i would take the high ground bases (as opposed to the ones behind the rocks).
Don't know if this little tidbit of info helps you at all, just a lil something to get the mind juices a flowin
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70 Posts
On April 13 2013 05:18 KingCorwin wrote:
If I were to play a game on this map, I would expand behind me, then as a third i would take the high ground bases (as opposed to the ones behind the rocks).
Don't know if this little tidbit of info helps you at all, just a lil something to get the mind juices a flowin
In the five games I have seen played on this map they all did the same (expanding outside base rather then the one by the natural). Which im okay with for now. I didn't originally intend it that way but it makes the backdoor more vulnerable which can to lead to interesting fights outside the safe natural.
I'll continue testing but so far the layout seems to be working out nicer then I originally anticipated.
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Well to start, i think that this kind of theme doesn't need too much doodads around maybe add some of these chiseled rocks, but not too many, for the rocks leading to the natural i would make them have more armor, around ~5 or so, that way zerg can´t put a few lings to destroy them and then do some kind of roach bust later if they spawned in a clock wise position from their opponent.
Other than that the map looks very very nice ^^
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I'm surprised so many people are saying good job to a map that has an awful lot of similarities with Jungle Basin.
http://www.rtsguru.com/game/1/article/2001/Making-Starcraft-2-Maps-Tick-An-In-Depth-Analysis.html
This is a horrible map for Zerg. They can take the further back third with rocks blocking them and a super long rally distance, which makes ground defense against 2 base pressure too difficult. Or else they're forced to take a forward third with high ground looking over it, a double whammy. They can't block the ramp into the main with their queen in ZvZ because it's two wide instead of one wide. Everything is too chokey, so there are no good spots to obtain a surround. The natural is super safe. The backdoor rocks are very far back, so can't really be accessed at any point in the game without risking getting killed by a flanking maneuver or a counter push from the opponent's main ramp.
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^ I don't think it's quite as bad as all that for zerg, but the distances are pretty short, and there isn't any really large open space except the lowground base.
The blockage in the center doesn't make any sense to me. That should be far more open to make up for the severe choky ramps leading up there. The towers seem like overkill and definitely favor the CCW player who can get to them much more directly.
You need to put unbuildable blockers at the in-base ramp to prevent cannon wallofffs in ZvP. This ramp should probably just be a double ramp anyway to mitigate forcefield. Imagine a midgame timing that busts the rocks and moves up into that base, with a single FF to prevent reinforcements unless they go all the way around. Or just a prism drop.
This is an interesting concept but I don't think everything is put together exactly right. I will go into more detail on changes you could try if you're interested.
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The main problem on jungle bassin was taking a third base, there is no third base problem on this map
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70 Posts
On April 13 2013 15:29 EatThePath wrote:
^ I don't think it's quite as bad as all that for zerg, but the distances are pretty short, and there isn't any really large open space except the lowground base.
The blockage in the center doesn't make any sense to me. That should be far more open to make up for the severe choky ramps leading up there. The towers seem like overkill and definitely favor the CCW player who can get to them much more directly.
You need to put unbuildable blockers at the in-base ramp to prevent cannon wallofffs in ZvP. This ramp should probably just be a double ramp anyway to mitigate forcefield. Imagine a midgame timing that busts the rocks and moves up into that base, with a single FF to prevent reinforcements unless they go all the way around. Or just a prism drop.
This is an interesting concept but I don't think everything is put together exactly right. I will go into more detail on changes you could try if you're interested.
Middle being a bit to chocky is something I plan addressing in the next update. Im pretty much revamping middle all together. Makes the expansion outside the third a little less noticable. A double ramp towards the natural is something I simply just overlooked. As far as other changes I would be very interested to hear your suggestions
I'm surprised so many people are saying good job to a map that has an awful lot of similarities with Jungle Basin.
As far as the jungle basin comparison, yes there is a safe natural and thats about it. The safe natural in Night Shade is significantly closer to the main. The ramp from main to natural are farther apart. The backdoor rocks can be viewed from the mains high ground. The path from backdoor to main can be accessed by ground units and isnt obstructed by a cliff break and there are two much easier thirds. These aren't just nonsense differences they make a big difference.
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70 Posts
Just updated to NA.
Im not to happy with middle but Im going to put this project aside for a while to work on Contest entries.
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I think the map has a couple problems (most significantly - in close spawns the really short main-main rush distance is probably imba) but it's definitely a map I'm rooting for. The concept of optional thirds on either side of a main w/ in-base expo is pretty cool.
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70 Posts
On April 21 2013 10:10 Fatam wrote:
I think the map has a couple problems (most significantly - in close spawns the really short main-main rush distance is probably imba) but it's definitely a map I'm rooting for. The concept of optional thirds on either side of a main w/ in-base expo is pretty cool.
Its currently cross-spawn only.
Ive been thinking about remaking this into a 1v1 two base map. I really like the individual bases but the middle is rather bland and I dont think Ill be able to keep the base layout while balancing close map spawns. Ultimately I will just be starting a new map with a similar base layout.
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I think you should flip the ramps on the XNTs so that they do not completely favor the aggressor. Either that, or just honestly - completely remove them FFS and tighten up the middle. I don't think there's any reason to have XNTs and the map would be just as brilliant without them.
Awesome texture job btw.
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EPT
