EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXIV
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
/in Hiya guys! | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
YH ends up being SK. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Anyway... Hi everyone! This is my second (and a half?) game of TL mafia, and I'm excited to get started! I'd like to start with some policy discussion, since I don't know what else to discuss at this point. I've come around in my thinking since XXIII, and am willing to consider lurker lynches. I wouldn't suggest lynching someone completely without suspicion (even GK in XXIII was a stretch for me, though I did vote to avoid a no-lynch), but the threat of lynching based on inactivity should motivate everyone to be active. If two players are equally suspicious, and only one is lurking, I'd probably go with the lurker. Completely new players, please read the guides and be sure to understand the capabilities of all of the roles. I was excited to get into this game because of all the role possibilities. It has the potential to be much more complex than what I've experienced, and I'm looking forward to it. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 15 2012 10:04 Shady Sands wrote: Mkfuba, please post your posting history from the prior games. Thanks Is this normal? Just wonderin'  XXIII - goon for 0.5 then vanilla townie from then on. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 15 2012 10:55 Solarsail wrote: O WOW IM BEING PAID ATTENTION TO ITS ALL I DREAMED OF Let's go with the meta-meta-analysis of tiny comments without adding anything new, that's sure to help. When Shady Sands stops the 'thing' he has going I'll vote for who you're "paying attention to" because that's an objective measure appreciated by town players everywhere. Alright, I feel like Shady was overreacting too, but there needs to be a starting point for discussion. Your reactions have been completely emotionally based and by virtue of not being pro-town, appear scummy by default. Might his posts have been a bit contrived? Yes. From what I can see, he's scumhunting no matter what. Whether he actually believes that your first few posts were scummy, your follow-up posts aren't helping town in any way. You say you'll vote for someone when someone else makes a case for them based on reasoning, so start trying to do that instead of screaming at Shady. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 15 2012 11:08 Solarsail wrote: > Drops in from ceiling > Why, yes, I can see some of argument A but I can also see some of argument B, aren't I so fair and reasonable good sirs > Let me give advice to you, for I am a kind and generous spirit ................ ...... .. . . . Dude, you're not helping your case. I didn't give anything that Shady had said any weight until you followed up his questions with overly emotional fluff and OMGUS. Your responses don't answer the questions he's raised, and provide nothing in the way of new content. While my read on you still says panicked townie, you have to cool off. Either respond to his questions seriously or make another case, or you're not helping town. Step it up. Playing the sarcastic martyr wins you no points. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 15 2012 11:43 thrawn2112 wrote: Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar? It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case. The problem with the second part of this post is that it's not Shady who is sidetracking the conversation. He asked a question and Solarsail is perpetuating the suspicion by not addressing it. Shady started it, Solar is keeping it going. Multiple people have told him to post better and he's ignored us/thrown our advice back in our faces with a snarky comment. No matter what, this isn't pro-town behaviour. My view on Shady's first accusation (that Solar was obliquely accusing Stutters) is that Shady was overthinking it. I didn't even get a hint of supposition that Solar was accusing Stutters. What makes Solar seem at all suspicious to me has been his reactions the whole time. Nothing scummy yet, but a stubborn refusal to actually participate in pro-town behaviour. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 15 2012 13:28 YourHarry wrote: Actually I find mkfuba suspicious. Although I think Solar did act somewhat scummy (and I voted him at one point), I think Solar is town. There were four people who thought Solar was scum: Shady, YourHarry, thrawn, and mkfuba. After three people expressed suspicion on Solar, Mkfuba opportunistically but non-committingly fuels Solar bandwagon: You're making stuff up, now. I've never once said that Solar was scum. I've been trying to get him to respond to Shady's questions in a way that actually helps town instead of snarky one-liners that provide nothing but suspicion. How does that quote in any way fuel a bandwagon against Solar? I've made it quite clear that I see his actions as those of a panicked townie. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 15 2012 13:41 YourHarry wrote: Shady, unless GK or someone starts accusing me I standby my decision. What do you think about mkfuba. He in one hand defends Solar against your case, but non-committingly adds that Solar is not acting against pro-town behavior. Scum mkfuba motivated to push Solar mislynch, expecting subsequent emotional and "snarky" behavior from Solar. I'm not in any way pushing for a lynch of Solar right now. Again, you're making things up. I never said he was "not acting against pro-town behaviour." In fact, I've said that he is acting against pro-town behaviour. That was the whole point of everything I've said. He is not at all acting pro-town, but has yet to do anything I see as downright scummy. How you've misinterpreted that without some alternative intent behind it is beyond me. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
When did you check your role PM this time? | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
My read on Shady right now is slight townie. He was the driving force behind most of the first day so far, and has been sticking his neck out the entire time. I get null reads from the cases he presented, because though I disagree with the evidence for them, they promoted discussion when there was very little to discuss. He gets a townie point because of this discussion promotion and activity. I waited to post my reads on YourHarry because I wanted to avoid an OMGUS reaction, but most of my feelings on him had been posted by GK. I really wanted to see his reasoning for dropping the votes on Solar. Since he's posted that now, I'm a strange point in my read on him. In response to his vague comments I started to believe that he had just read his role PM (since he delayed reading them in both D1s of XXIII) and realized that Solar was his Mason partner. That seems like a legitimate reason to hint at it without outright saying it, though it will make everyone suspicious of him. What I find most suspicious is YH's willingness to believe in a Solar/GK mason team with so little evidence of it. The post he quoted from GK "defending" Solar was a mirror of my views on Solar - that he's playing in a way that will distract us from true scumhunting for the rest of D1. I don't think GK's phrasing implied greater knowledge than he should have had as a vanilla townie, as I came to the same conclusion. As a result, I see YH's strong townie read on Solar as YH behaving as if he has more information than he should. Since he isn't mason, that only leaves scum. FoS YourHarry Solar's posts have me leaning towards a townie read for him. Pointing out how thrawn's defense of him may be considered scummy seems like a very town thing to do. He's not taking someone's defense of him as evidence of townie-ness, but being suspicious of his motives. I'm not sure I agree with his method of building discussion (in reference to his earliest, trolly play), since his first few posts could cast him in a suspicious light for the rest of the game. But if it was his plan to do so to build discussion in the first place, then he knew the risks and took them for the team. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 16 2012 03:48 YourHarry wrote: Posting from work. Mkfuba: First, there is a difference in cautiously wondering if Solar is a newbie townie, which is what you did, and knowing that Solar is a suspiciously playing town. This is what GK wrote: You guys propose the same thing in that Solar is not a good lynch. But the underlying basis for GK's proposal is based on what he somehow knows as a certainty. There is a subtle but important difference here. And this is why I think GK is scum, now that I realize that they are not mason brothers. Second, I do think the evidence was quiet sufficient. I am actually surprised that no one saw the same thing I did. In addition to GK's cooperative acceptance of Solar as just an over-agreessive townie , Solar's bold posting style fit almost perfectly once I started believing that he was a mason. Finally when GK no longer questioned me, I became more confident of my read. Also, what information do scums have that townies don't have that would allow scums to speculate better on mason alignments? There is one thing: since scums know everyone who is not scums, they may have easier time identifying the mason claims. But from my perspective, as long as I deemed the possibility of GK/Solar being scums together to be unlikely, my ability to speculate on mason alignment is as good as scums'. You may feel like I am playing with more information because I was quick to believe GK/Solar mason, but logically information available to scums does not allow them to better read masons as long as townies can also establish that GK/Solar are not scums together. I explained my reason for thinking that GK/Solar are not scums together, though I am having second thoughts about this. Thus, my identifying GK/Solar mason combination, even if it was based on less than convincing evidence does not lend much support to me being scum. I'm going to have to admit that I can't debate this point. Since I wouldn't have even considered GK's "Sigh..." comment suspicious, I wouldn't have reached a point where I considered either a GK/Solar mason OR scumteam. Essentially, since I wouldn't have drawn what you did from his "Sigh..." comment, I see the entire situation as contrived, and I see your reason for eliminating the scumteam as a possibility as contrived (since it was based on the "Sigh..." comment). This may just be a difference in thought processes; I may simply have a more similar thought process to GK than I do to you. Nevertheless, since the situation seems fabricated to me, it casts you in a suspicious light. It's definitely not enough for me to consider voting for you D1, especially with what I feel are three relative lurkers in the game (Golbat, Archrun, Jhuyt), but I'm going to keep my FoS on you. On August 16 2012 05:27 thrawn2112 wrote: mkfuba07, after reading my post do you agree with my claim that YH is town? If not, why not? I hope my above explanation explained my position here. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 16 2012 12:53 YourHarry wrote: @Mkfuba What about my "story" that seems fabricated to you? FOS Golbat Jyhut Stutters and Archrun for lurking. Please do share your current reads. In particular, I would like your comments on what you think of my case against GK. If you do not have time to participate in the future, do try to contribute today as much as today and request replacement. I've said this multiple times. I didn't find the original GK post, the one that you use as the entire basis of your argument, in any way suspicious. I think it's a huge stretch to come to the conclusion you did. Then to use it to try to prove Solar's townie-ness and then GK's scumminess... I definitely feel that a townie would be more cautious when declaring someone else an obvious townie (unless you are a mason, which is unlikely seeing as how you supposedly believed two others to be masons). While the follow-up explanation can make sense, it only does so if you believe the assumption that you built the entire case on: that "Sigh..." implied greater knowledge than GK would have as anyone except mason or scum. I don't believe that, so I don't believe you. I do second the request for Golbat, Jyhut, and Archrun to be more active. We need more information from all of you, or our reads will be based on very few (2, 2, and 3, respectively) posts. You don't even necessarily have to comment on every aspect of the day so far. Give us something to work with. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Since Thrawn seems to be quite the target, I'm going to post my thoughts on him: 1) The SK posts seemed a bit suspicious, but when I read them I got a rather null read. I was obsing a game recently (my apologies for not knowing the exact game name) where it seemed like the entire first 24 hours was spent discussing what a theoretical Tracker should do if he even existed in the game. Asking a question of the more experienced players regarding SKs, and giving his own point of view, doesn't send off any major alarms in my head. He dropped the issue immediately after people said that they basically agreed with him, and he hasn't personally brought them up ever since. 2) Regarding his actions in the Solar issue, I tended to agree with him along the way. I'm not sure I'm getting why you think this is scummy, could you explain? His posts since that point are what caused me to be suspicious of him, but I never quite understood the reasoning behind your initial interrogation. This quote appears to summarize his thought process quite nicely, and since it was exactly the same as my thoughts I actually got a slight townie read after it. He was suspicious at the right times, and when something didn't make sense he questioned the reasoning of whoever raised that point.3) At this point I think YH's alliance hinges on whether or not you believe his story about suspecting solar and gk of being masons. At one point in the game I was willing to indulge the thought that YH and solar were masons based off a weak read I was making, (the extra information YH was hinting at) so it is easy for me to believe that YH did the same. YH, for now I believe your story and do not think either you or solar are scum. This quote makes me lean townie as well. Though I have stated that I didn't agree with the original argument behind YH's reads on solar/GK, Thrawn again comes to the same conclusion as me: that the entire case comes down to that single "Sigh..." comment. Though I was (and still am) suspicious of YH after that case, Thrawn's disagreement over this doesn't reveal alignment to me. The way he's thinking things through is very similar to how I did during my only previous vanilla townie game.4) The whole Z-Boson/Ochrow situation also has me leaning town. During that entire situation, Thrawn makes efforts to alleviate the confusion that's been caused by Z-Boson's misread, when he could have just sat back and let the misunderstanding grow out of control (especially seeing how readily people in this game have been jumping on single posts to make full cases). With this, I have a firm townie read on Thrawn. 5) I don't see any real evidence of Thrawn and Ochrow coordinating their posts. The entire thing feels contrived to me. This makes me feel that this bandwagon that's started on Thrawn is at least partially supported by scums. This, in turn, gives me an even stronger townie read on Thrawn. 6) His subsequent suspicion of Shady is completely valid in my eyes. If Thrawn is town, then as he's pointed out, the only information he can be 100% sure of is his own alignment. Since he knows he's town, he has a right to be suspicious of someone so zealously pursuing lynching him. His vote isn't instantly OMGUS just because Shady voted for him before. Thrawn has actual reasons for being suspicious, and Shady hasn't, even in my eyes, done a good job of addressing them. Thrawn has been tunneled pretty hard for one of the first cases to have any significant reasoning behind it (the one against Archrun), and I find that incredibly suspicious. While most other players are making cases based on such huge stretches that I find it hard to believe they came to the conclusions they did, Thrawn is being hit hard for providing a case that was based entirely within the context of the thread itself. In short, I truly think that a lynch on Thrawn would be a mislynch. I have some reads on other people that I will try to get up as soon as possible, but I have to leave to take care of school issues right now, and don't want to post half-assed theories without being able to clarify them right away. I will say that I am likely to support a relative lurker lynch, especially given that most of the discussion has been about a player who I've made it clear I have pretty strong town reads on. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
##Vote: ShadySands I don't have much time to clarify this atm, but based on my current tally of the votes, there are 3 for thrawn, and 2 for shady. I've made it clear how I feel about thrawn, and in turn that I find Shady's tunneling of him extremely suspicious. I don't want thrawn lynched, so I'm voting for Shady not only because he is suspicious to me, but is also currently the only way to avoid a mislynch on Thrawn. I really have to head out now, but I should be back before the final tally. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I still believe that Thrawn would be a mislynch. Too much of his play has a townie feel to me. As for Shady... so much of his evidence against Thrawn feels so inadequate and contrived to me... Unfortunately, I'm now at a point where I have to decide between switching to someone I've made it clear I feel is town, and keeping my vote on someone who has tunneled that person for most of the game. I am keeping my vote on Shady. | ||
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