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Newbie Mini Mafia XXII

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 23 2012 02:42 GMT
#96
Eh, why not.

/in

This will be my 4th game.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 23 2012 04:19 GMT
#98
On July 23 2012 13:18 Promethelax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2012 11:42 Keirathi wrote:
Eh, why not.

/in

This will be my 4th game.


Nice, I look forward to playing with you from the beginning.

Hopefully from the same side of the coin this time :D
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 07:07 GMT
#137
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 18:37 GMT
#142
On July 26 2012 20:55 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 20:16 Promethelax wrote:

On July 26 2012 11:57 Golbat wrote:
if i'm not too late to sign up,

/in

This will be my first game =D


You are my hero, I pledge to only lynch you if you are scum and deserve it.


as opposed to.... ? ^_^


!!FUN!!

or maybe even !!SCIENCE!!
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 20:33 GMT
#148
Finally it starts!

Now let annihilate this infestation (including you marv, /shoo).
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 20:41 GMT
#149
First things first:

If we have a town roleblocker, I think its best not to use your role early. You generally have as much chance of hurting a teamate as you do a scum. I'm not saying to NEVER use it, but think carefully and only use it if you are reasonably sure that you are blocking a scum.

Some policy discussion:

Lynch All Liars - I'm of the opinion that there are very, very few cases where lying as a townie is beneficial to town. With that said, there ARE cases where it is a realistic option, so I think blanket policy lynching is a fairly bad thing. Case-by-case basis.

Lynch All Lurkers - As much as lurking hurts town, I feel like at least in newbie games, lurking is almost guaranteed. I encourage everyone to try as hard as they can to avoid lurking sot hat we won't have to discuss this later. Lurking as a townie hurts town. Please don't do it. Again, case-by-case basis.

Are all roleblocks notified, or only people with power roles?
I've seen games where it works both ways, so best to clarify early.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 21:48 GMT
#164
On July 27 2012 06:45 Promethelax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2012 06:43 Zorkmid wrote:
I'm not saying that the "best town play" isn't to lynch scum, I'm just saying that in the absence of that inactivity and liars are the next logical targets.

Warning: Nub question::::We HAVE to lynch someone each day, right?


No, we do not. We can no-lynch by making sure that no single candidate has a majority on them.


Correct. We can engineer a no-lynch, but everyone HAS to vote. If we are able to ##Vote No-Lynch is up to the hosts discretion, but in a previous game with ghost as the host, we weren't able to, so to no-lynch we had to spread our votes out.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 21:58 GMT
#166
On July 27 2012 06:53 Promethelax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2012 06:48 Keirathi wrote:
On July 27 2012 06:45 Promethelax wrote:
On July 27 2012 06:43 Zorkmid wrote:
I'm not saying that the "best town play" isn't to lynch scum, I'm just saying that in the absence of that inactivity and liars are the next logical targets.

Warning: Nub question::::We HAVE to lynch someone each day, right?


No, we do not. We can no-lynch by making sure that no single candidate has a majority on them.


Correct. We can engineer a no-lynch, but everyone HAS to vote. If we are able to ##Vote No-Lynch is up to the hosts discretion, but in a previous game with ghost as the host, we weren't able to, so to no-lynch we had to spread our votes out.


I've only seen that as a possibility in a plurality lynch while we are playing a majority lynch. Different mechanics.

So Keir: any thoughts yet? Shall we lynch Obvious for being obviously scum? and keep the pattern going, shall we attack Zork for being unable to answer my vague questions or try to lynch one of the two of us for being too active?

All of the above. Lynch EVERYTHING!

Nah, I just hope more people show up so we can get the ball rolling.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 22:06 GMT
#168
It would be hillarious for the host, terrible for the players.

I approve.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 22:22 GMT
#173
On July 27 2012 07:19 aRyuujin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2012 07:04 Promethelax wrote:
On July 27 2012 06:58 Keirathi wrote:
On July 27 2012 06:53 Promethelax wrote:
On July 27 2012 06:48 Keirathi wrote:
On July 27 2012 06:45 Promethelax wrote:
On July 27 2012 06:43 Zorkmid wrote:
I'm not saying that the "best town play" isn't to lynch scum, I'm just saying that in the absence of that inactivity and liars are the next logical targets.

Warning: Nub question::::We HAVE to lynch someone each day, right?


No, we do not. We can no-lynch by making sure that no single candidate has a majority on them.


Correct. We can engineer a no-lynch, but everyone HAS to vote. If we are able to ##Vote No-Lynch is up to the hosts discretion, but in a previous game with ghost as the host, we weren't able to, so to no-lynch we had to spread our votes out.


I've only seen that as a possibility in a plurality lynch while we are playing a majority lynch. Different mechanics.

So Keir: any thoughts yet? Shall we lynch Obvious for being obviously scum? and keep the pattern going, shall we attack Zork for being unable to answer my vague questions or try to lynch one of the two of us for being too active?

All of the above. Lynch EVERYTHING!

Nah, I just hope more people show up so we can get the ball rolling.


Well while we're waiting let's breadcrumb secrets to each other. Victory, I'm sure, will be ours if we strive for it. Ghost must be being really nice to us because I already have a town read on all the players in this game, he must want us all to live happily ever after and not have to kill each other.

Okay, so that isn't actually true but I hope a host does that eventually just to be a dick.


its quite clear that he
is breadcrumbing that his role
is that of a dick


Haha. Where's my +1 button
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 23:24 GMT
#183
On July 27 2012 07:43 Mordanis wrote:
Rather than sitting in a circle and deciding whom to lynch based on who sing "Kum ba yah, My Lord" the most off key (what kind of villainous scum would do such a thing?), I think its time to begin the scumhunt. Anyways, I apologize in advance if this seems somewhat rushed. I want to get the hunt going as early as possible, and I feel we've wasted the first hour and a half. So without further ado, here comes (hopefully) the first case of the game:

      Mordanis's's case on Keirathi
K (for some reason your name is really hard for me to type) began this game by virtually claiming Town RB. + Show Spoiler +
On July 27 2012 05:41 Keirathi wrote:
First things first:

If we have a town roleblocker, I think its best not to use your role early. You generally have as much chance of hurting a teamate as you do a scum. I'm not saying to NEVER use it, but think carefully and only use it if you are reasonably sure that you are blocking a scum.

Some policy discussion:

Lynch All Liars - I'm of the opinion that there are very, very few cases where lying as a townie is beneficial to town. With that said, there ARE cases where it is a realistic option, so I think blanket policy lynching is a fairly bad thing. Case-by-case basis.

Lynch All Lurkers - As much as lurking hurts town, I feel like at least in newbie games, lurking is almost guaranteed. I encourage everyone to try as hard as they can to avoid lurking sot hat we won't have to discuss this later. Lurking as a townie hurts town. Please don't do it. Again, case-by-case basis.

Are all roleblocks notified, or only people with power roles?
I've seen games where it works both ways, so best to clarify early.

. Now this may have been a case of extreme newbiness, which would be understandable, but Mr. K has played in at least 2 other games, so I believe he knew how this post would be interpreted. This brings up 3 possibilities:

1: Mr. K is VT, and he is trying to "take one for the team". He knows that the scum will see this post and read him blue, and he'll die tonight instead of a real blue. If this were to happen, he'd have helped town. If he gets lynched today, it'll be bad for town, but it will be deal-with-able.

2: Mr. K is actually townie RB. Perhaps he is trying to make his "claim" so obvious the scum will think option 1 is happening. Trying to hide out in the open. If he is killed during the night, we're in pretty bad shape. But if this option is the case and he's lynched today, we're in even worse shape, because he won't have used his power even once. That said, he implied that he wouldn't want to use it N1 anyway, so the options are virtually the same.

3: Mr. K is scum, and is trying to use this as means to get himself out of trouble. If he ever gets some heat brought to him, he just says "Dude, I basically claimed town RB, I don't think its a good idea to lynch me" The claim also puts pressure on any real blues to claim, and when everyone claims, a claim isn't worth anything. Basically, this post seems mildly non-protown, and it gives him a way to defend himself. Destabilizing town and giving yourself an extra cycle seems very scummy to me. If we lynch him today, we're off to a great start. And if this option is the case, scum aren't killing him tonight.

Of these three, option 2 seems by far the least probable. So that being said, I think that right now Keirathi is the best candidate for lynching. Still, its pretty early so I don't think it would be wise in any way to commit right now. Last thing: I have to go to work now, and I'll be back in probably 5 hours (rakin in the cash makin pizza), just FYI.


I think you misunderstood. I am not claiming RB at all.

I just mentioned it after reading through the possible roles list to see if anyone should claim (IE, self-aware millers should *ALWAYS* claim day1, there's no reason not to), and I remembered we had a discussion about town-aligned roleblockers claiming on day1 in I Can't Believe It's Not Themed game, and whether or not they should ever use their powers.

I was just commenting on the set-up, not some pseudo-claim or anything.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 23:32 GMT
#185
On July 27 2012 08:24 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2012 07:43 Mordanis wrote:
Rather than sitting in a circle and deciding whom to lynch based on who sing "Kum ba yah, My Lord" the most off key (what kind of villainous scum would do such a thing?), I think its time to begin the scumhunt. Anyways, I apologize in advance if this seems somewhat rushed. I want to get the hunt going as early as possible, and I feel we've wasted the first hour and a half. So without further ado, here comes (hopefully) the first case of the game:

      Mordanis's's case on Keirathi
K (for some reason your name is really hard for me to type) began this game by virtually claiming Town RB. + Show Spoiler +
On July 27 2012 05:41 Keirathi wrote:
First things first:

If we have a town roleblocker, I think its best not to use your role early. You generally have as much chance of hurting a teamate as you do a scum. I'm not saying to NEVER use it, but think carefully and only use it if you are reasonably sure that you are blocking a scum.

Some policy discussion:

Lynch All Liars - I'm of the opinion that there are very, very few cases where lying as a townie is beneficial to town. With that said, there ARE cases where it is a realistic option, so I think blanket policy lynching is a fairly bad thing. Case-by-case basis.

Lynch All Lurkers - As much as lurking hurts town, I feel like at least in newbie games, lurking is almost guaranteed. I encourage everyone to try as hard as they can to avoid lurking sot hat we won't have to discuss this later. Lurking as a townie hurts town. Please don't do it. Again, case-by-case basis.

Are all roleblocks notified, or only people with power roles?
I've seen games where it works both ways, so best to clarify early.

. Now this may have been a case of extreme newbiness, which would be understandable, but Mr. K has played in at least 2 other games, so I believe he knew how this post would be interpreted. This brings up 3 possibilities:

1: Mr. K is VT, and he is trying to "take one for the team". He knows that the scum will see this post and read him blue, and he'll die tonight instead of a real blue. If this were to happen, he'd have helped town. If he gets lynched today, it'll be bad for town, but it will be deal-with-able.

2: Mr. K is actually townie RB. Perhaps he is trying to make his "claim" so obvious the scum will think option 1 is happening. Trying to hide out in the open. If he is killed during the night, we're in pretty bad shape. But if this option is the case and he's lynched today, we're in even worse shape, because he won't have used his power even once. That said, he implied that he wouldn't want to use it N1 anyway, so the options are virtually the same.

3: Mr. K is scum, and is trying to use this as means to get himself out of trouble. If he ever gets some heat brought to him, he just says "Dude, I basically claimed town RB, I don't think its a good idea to lynch me" The claim also puts pressure on any real blues to claim, and when everyone claims, a claim isn't worth anything. Basically, this post seems mildly non-protown, and it gives him a way to defend himself. Destabilizing town and giving yourself an extra cycle seems very scummy to me. If we lynch him today, we're off to a great start. And if this option is the case, scum aren't killing him tonight.

Of these three, option 2 seems by far the least probable. So that being said, I think that right now Keirathi is the best candidate for lynching. Still, its pretty early so I don't think it would be wise in any way to commit right now. Last thing: I have to go to work now, and I'll be back in probably 5 hours (rakin in the cash makin pizza), just FYI.


I think you misunderstood. I am not claiming RB at all.

I just mentioned it after reading through the possible roles list to see if anyone should claim (IE, self-aware millers should *ALWAYS* claim day1, there's no reason not to), and I remembered we had a discussion about town-aligned roleblockers claiming on day1 in I Can't Believe It's Not Themed game, and whether or not they should ever use their powers.

I was just commenting on the set-up, not some pseudo-claim or anything.


EBWOP: I meant I think you were misunderstanding my intentions. I assume you understood what I was saying.

Also, everyone can just call me Keir. Its much easier that way, and most everyone who knows my by this name call me Keir already.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 26 2012 23:44 GMT
#189
On July 27 2012 08:42 MrMedic wrote:
Well, I might as well introduce my self. I have never played mafia before and wanting to try it out on TL this is my frist mafia game. I hope everyone has a good time.

Nice! Your first game is always so intense, and it can be quite daunting. Some tips: trust your reads, be confident in your cases, and don't get frustrated when people inevitably point fingers at you.

If you can do those things, you should be right at home here!
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 27 2012 02:46 GMT
#204
@Goldbat:

At the same time, you can't just give people a free ride for lurking. Like Mordanis pointed out + Show Spoiler +
Mordanis wrote:
Easiest way for scum to win is to have town all say "Yeah, Lurkers are a bad target, we'll always lynch our best read". Its a pretty common scum strategy to lurk while the active townies FOS all over each other, and eventually kill themselves.
, if you let people lurk without consequences then you give scum a free out.

It's a balancing act of deciding if people are "lurking with intent" or just townies not posting much.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 27 2012 03:30 GMT
#210
On July 27 2012 12:18 Golbat wrote:
Keir:
I'm not sure if you understood my post, but I probably wasn't all that clear. What I meant was, if we have no solid reads on who might be scum, then we can lynch a lurker. But, if we do have a good idea of who might be scum, we have to prioritize investigating/lynching them over taking the easy lynch of a lurker.

Basically I think that policy lynching lurkers before considering people who are even the least bit scummy is a bad play. On the flip side, policy lynching liars is not a bad play, because the only reason to lie is because you're scum (apart from potentially claiming VT when actually a blue role, I think).


Not really misunderstood, we're just communicating the same things in different ways. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was agreeing but with the stipulation that at some point we have to pressure the lurkers or we give scum a "get out of jail free" card.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 27 2012 04:04 GMT
#218
On July 27 2012 12:44 Mordanis wrote:
Soo apparently everyone has decided that scumhunting is a bad idea D1? The point of this game is to analyze things. Context does matter, but some of the things that have been suggested so far are sort of ridiculous. If someone went to bed right before the game began and had to go straight to work, and maybe forgets they could easily go almost a full 24 hours before posting. It doesn't make them scum, it just makes them busy. On the other hand, if you delay posting content until other people post content, then the scum hunt is never going to get going. I admit, my case again Keir was somewhat rushed, but if we don't start posting analysis, we lose any information that could have been gained, and basically start fresh D2, just down 1 or 2 townies (rando-lynch vs. no-lynch). Another thing: Mislynching D1 is sort of to be expected. Unless the scum choose to bus one of their own, the scum have allies and are therefore less likely to be lynched. You have to use the information that is gained from discussion to figure out who is scum most of the time. From Ver's Town Guide:
Show nested quote +
The most useless kind of lynch is a last minute switch that is really easy and safe to hop on the bandwagon for. If there's a highly polarized lynch, the dead information + voting lists can provide a lot, even if the people accused are all innocent (then you can see who's manipulating just out of site).
In other words, if we have a constructive D1 but mislynch, town is in much better position than if a random lynch happens to hit scum.

Anyways, apparently people want me to respond to the FOS put on me. Darth seems to have misunderstood me. The 3 situations I posed were the 3 possible roles that Keir could be. I ran through what the outcome would be for each hypothetical. I would think it was obvious that I didn't believe that Keir was simultaneously red, green, and blue, but ... Aside from what appear to be a misunderstanding, there doesn't seem to be anything else. The reason that I think that Keir isn't blue is because blues tend to be somewhat lurky but do contribute to the scumhunt.Keir has been fairly active, though no scum-hunting (yet!), but brought attention to himself by trying to seem like a blue. From Ver's Town Guide:
Show nested quote +
To keep this simple and save time, let's look at some heuristics to find potential targets, then go through their post history to get the best ones. Here are some common heuristics I use of blue indicators:

-Tries to contribute but doesn't stick their neck out
-Shows fear/wants to instinctively hide
-Drastically lower post quantity compared to games when they are green but still tries to contribute.
-Focuses most of their posts on blue roles or ignores them entirely.
-To figure out which role specifically, they will focus unnatural amounts of attention on that role, know the rules for that role thoroughly, or ignore it entirely while mentioning other blue roles. Figuring out the specific is difficult to ascertain and not always applicable, but these heuristics will hold up more often than not.
Look at the post I indicated in my case, it fits those last two heuristics to a tee, but the other two are off(policy is sort of a gray-zone, sort of pro-town and sort of "safe play" but everyone does it + Show Spoiler +
way too much!!!!
). That's why I feel Keir isn't blue, because he seems to be trying to seem blue but some of his actions are the opposite. And there was the public question: when I was vigi, I asked several questions about my role, but to try to hide my role I never posted them publically, I PMd them. His play screams to me a somewhat experienced player trying to fake blue.

I hate doing this, but I feel there are some points that people should not miss.
TLDR:Scumhunt should begin the moment content is posted, and Keir is almost certainly green or red.


Your whole case was based on a false premise: that I was pseudo-claiming RB. Like I said immediately after you posted, that is not the case at all. I am not roleblocker. Just making sure everyone knows.

As far as Ver's quote: I made one post discussing one blue role out of the 4 (5 if you count Mason as a blue role) possible town power roles.

Again, I was mentioning it because it was brought up in a previous game, so might as well head off the discussion early and make my stance known (just for reference, my stance is that if we have a town RBer, he should *NOT* day 1 claim, and he should be very careful with his powers, erring to the side of not using it unless hes 90% sure he's blocking a scum).
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 27 2012 05:05 GMT
#224
On July 27 2012 14:03 Shady Sands wrote:
As if my last post didn't make it clear already:

##Vote Mordanis

Where is Ange777? If he doesn't show up prior to the vote tally I may consider changing my vote to him.


His tag says he's in Germany, so its like 7am there. I imagine he should be around some time soon.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 27 2012 06:32 GMT
#230
@goodkarma:

I mostly agree with your assessment of Mordanis. I feel like it would be a really silly play for a mafia to try to pull this early. It *WAS* a suspiciously weak case though, but mostly I feel like it was a townie trying to find something to push rather than a scum trying to start a bandwagon. I'll be keeping my eye on him though, that's for sure.

About your suspects:

aRyuujin

I don't really have much to comment about him. I feel like its too early to start qualifying people as lurkers. It is the middle of the night in US times, so I suspect a lot of people are sleeping.

MrMedic

In his longest post, he did have some good insight despite how hard the post was to follow. He noted how each point of the Mordanis case against me seemed to be trying to paint me dying in a good light. Would definitely like to hear more from him, hopefully in an easier to follow writing style next time though.

Promethelax

People have to work and sleep. I've played with Prom before, I have no doubt that he'll be active when he has time. People have to work and sleep, they can't be active 24 hours a day.

That being said, Prom has been scum in most (all?) of his previous games, so I'm definitely keeping an eye on him

My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 27 2012 06:47 GMT
#233
I still don't get how you confused me giving advice with claiming RB :o
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
July 27 2012 07:10 GMT
#236
That's so WIFOM that I don't even know how to respond.

In my last game, someone proposed a really silly plan early in day 1 to "generate discussion". Turns out he was scum.

Obviously I'm not lumping you into the same category as him, but that's the kind of discussion that WIFOM leads to. Making cases keeps conversation rolling, but base them on facts rather than WIFOM please.

But at least you were right that I'm not roleblocker!
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
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