There is too much talk on VE and Furer. To start out, claiming miller was indeed a good move if town. It gives information to us and suggests that as blues we not check him, allowing us to use our powers on other people.

VE is almost certainly town. There's a small chance he's a badass serial killer, but for him to have claimed(vulnerable to counterclaims) requires an element of risk which I do not think the SK would use. There is almost certainily not 2 millers in this setup, as having two "false" townies, as well as all the other Alignment-Confusing roles would just decimate the cop's role.

Since the risk of being counterclaimed would be so damning, I do not think that VE would have claimed miller if he was mafia/SK. Especially so soon as the day started.

Furer is just playing poorly, but his play does not reek of scum. He voted rashly against VE, the very first(and only) vote so far. I do not think mafia would risk bringing so much attention to themselves. He's not only single handedly try to lynch VE, but he's done it with a reckless aura that excludes mafia.

I think Mr. Zentor is very suspicious, and should be looked at instead. He's offered very weak arguments, suggesting he does not want to force his opinion onto the town. He's offered vague statements that do not really put himself out there("a bit rash", "would probably", "I think, but we should") which do not prove him being mafia but merely cause me to be watchful.

I am also somewhat suspicious of Navillus, but it is more of a general feeling than specific evidence.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 01:57 GMT

#167

I'm going to have to agree with Katrina in that BH is playing awfully weird. I haven't actually ever played a game with him(though I have observed), but the fact remains he has drastically changed his playstyle in the last day or so.

More importantly, its the way that he's accusing. It feels like he's trying to make an argument rather than find scum, as all his arguments start out with the mindset that he is scum. Case in point is Mr. Z, where he refers to him being scum on the basis of "he didn't have the balls to"... etc....

That's a really common scum mistake imo. Scum tries so hard to make a case that they end up being aggressive on a personal level, almost condenscending. Townies could act that way, but only if it was part of a larger, more intense debate.

##Vote Blazinghand

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:17 GMT

#173

I honestly don't care about Zentor or navillus. They aren't posting enough to gauge an accurate read.

I do care about you though. And even if you don't get lynched, I will shoot you.

+ Show Spoiler +

Realize I accidently claimed blue, and my role isn't important enough to justify having medic protection I'm vigilante.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:19 GMT

#176

You have until tonight to prove to me your not scum Blazinghand.

gl

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:21 GMT

#178

On June 06 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote:
dude you are aware there are like RBs and shit in this game

But that's the beautiful part. I fake claim every game I play.

Mafia honestly don't know if I'm telling the truth or not. I may be fucking batshit, or I may be honest.

If I'm telling the truth, and they roleblock me, then
a.) We find out information about you(why would they protect you)
b.) They don't roleblock a medic/detective.

If I'm lying, they just roleblocked a regular dude and wasted a power.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:26 GMT

#183

Speaking of claiming, I've discussed with the host and decided that Masons, if they are here, should claim.

If masons exist, they're basically either auto-confirmed town, or they're both mafia. Either way, it gives us a whole load of information. I don't think they do exist, as it already seems imbalanced to me in a 12 person setup, but the fact remains that that kind of information is invaluable to us.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:29 GMT

#185

I'd rather have two confirmed town that can die, than have two unconfirmed town that can die. Remember that masons are not power roles. So mafia would either have to go after confirmed town(but powerless) or try to go for power roles(but uncomfired town.) If they did the latter, than as the amount of people shrink the knowledge of confirmed townies would double in usefulness.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:34 GMT

#187

Because if they claim now
1.We have more info in lynching
2. Amount of potential mafia is lowered
3. we have confirmed townies to help analyze around
4. Mafia can't organize a planned joint claim later on

Honestly, confirmed town are better than blues in alot of ways. Probably better than all of them except the Cop. But even the cop has a role twisted by possible RBer's, framers, godfathers, and serial killers, and millers.

Again, two confirmed town. In a setup of 12 people. Right at the start. Just admit I'm right BH.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:37 GMT

#188

"Your right Pandain"

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:37 GMT

#189

"Ok thank you"

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:39 GMT

#191

Moving on, we should start deciding who is the second most suspicious after Blazinghand. If BH gets lynched, I'll probably shoot ghost. I might not even shoot, as I'm not _as_ sold on ghost. But he's definitely one of the upper examples of possible scum.

It really depends on whether masons claim, and if I have enough information to justify a N1 shot. We'll see.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:49 GMT

#196

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Here's a better clarification

Why Now is Better than N1
[b]1. Blue roles will have more information in executing their actions. There will be 2 less chances for each blue role to waste a check/shot/roleblock on a townie. Times that by the amount of power roles we have and that is a significant deal. We won't be able to do that if they claim at the very end of N1.
2. We have more information. This is good, not just becuase we won't lynch the masons, but for all the information that springs out of confirmed townies. Your right, BH, confirmed townies aren't 100% right. But the fact is that they aren't scum, and that lets us make sure town runs the scene, not scum. I'd rather have an idiot town help guide town than any scum.

Masons getting shot = more blue roles able to do stuff.
Blues(if even that) getting shot = we still have confirmed townie.

Basically we'll have more information, and now. We already (are pretty sure) that VE is a miller, I'm a vig, if we have tow additional masons that = 4/12 people already accounted for! Then factor in individual analysis and guesswork! That's a HUGE deal in lynch one!

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:49 GMT

#197

On June 06 2012 11:41 Blazinghand wrote:
"oh wow blazinghand is really smart and pandain is not nearly as cool / sexy as blazinghand"

yeah I know it's pretty clear isn't it.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:55 GMT

#201

to summarize, it comes down to a basic principle. That it'll be better to have confirmed townies, and have a more accurate lynch now , than to have a less accurate lynch and less accurate night actions. The tradeoff is that it'll be slightly more likely for mafia/SK to shoot a blue. However, keep in mind that the less amount of blues amounts to a equally accompanied increase of a medic protecting a blue. Is it equal? No, but its offset by the medic protection chance and a more accurate lynch now.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 02:58 GMT

#206

Do you really think VE would claim miller, and risk being counterclaimed, if he wasn't actually the miller? Do you really think theres a significant chance(>90%) of that?

Same goes with me. In regards to additional blue roles, masons aren't really a blue role. I doubt there are masons in this setup, but that doesn't mean we won't have an additional blue role. Masons aren't a power role. They were never even meant to be used in the way I'm envisioning them to.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 03:10 GMT

#209

I actually agree that this is getting off topic, and its just me and BH arguing semantics based on different perspectives of the principle I mentioned earlier.

To address VE shortly, however, you can refer to my earlier posts to see where I slipped my role, its even been quoted and pointed out. You can try to lynch me, though.

To commence, from this little barrage of posts I've analyzed more people. I think VE is more likely town. Navillus has attempted to(rightfully) steer discussion back onto owhere we should be discussing, which was definitely the town thing to do. Mafia would either want to take a stand on the mason issue, or simply not post. Navillus acting as such strikes me as town.

I'm also very suspicious of Zellblade, as he's hardly posted at all. In fact, hilariously enough, he's just asked interogative questions. Which I find hilarious and will do one day.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

June 06 2012 03:19 GMT

#215

I'm not going to get lynched because its retarded reasoning. I'll let other people defend myself. BH you doing an OMGUS on me doesn't help your case either.

I appreciate the talk on me, however. Might as well get some new discussion going.

Here, lets make things interesting and force people in.

##Unvote BlazingHand
##Vote Pandain

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