EPTPick Your Poison Mafia
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
During the secret ballot poison, is there a vote count at the end of the day, or just a result? | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Roleblocker is the pick we need to send in for mafia. The reason for this is the role we absolutely do not want a combination of framer/gf + cop/tracker. That gives us the least possible advantage in this game. By us publicly sending in the roleblocker, it basically forces mafia to give us 2 of vigilante/medic/innocent child. If they decide to give us either cop or tracker that is even better, as we will KNOW that they only have a roleblocker and cannot throw off our investigations. Roleblocker vs 2 of vigilante/medic/innocent child is a fantastic place to be. If they happen to give us tracker or cop that is even better. It is far far better than any other scenario. Role and Alignment being hidden we want to save until lylo, as at that point it doesn't hurt us. Likewise when only 1 mafia is left. Voting being Secret we want to save until we have an obvious lynch. Lynch locks once majority hits does not hurt us at all, and is our freebee. Mayoral election is our second freebee. Day cycle shortened to 24 hours we'll use in the lategame, as discussion is slow then anyways. I'm out of time, more later. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Consider this though, if we KNOW we have sent in roleblocker(ie everyone sends that in) then we KNOW we can trust every single check via tracker or cop. That is incredibly important. Given that, mafia will have to give us some combination of the other three roles, which is an absolutely fantastic setup for town. (Innocent child cannot be roleblocked, medic never needs to claim, vig never needs to claim until second shot when he cant be roleblocked anymore). Please send in roleblocker. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Use first: Majority+1, secret vote, secret ballot Use in the mid game: Mayoral election, lynch lock Use at LYLO or late game: No flip, 24 hour lynch I agree with this, though I think we should save the secret ballot until we have an obvious lynch target. No need to use it up in the early game. I vote for majority +1 or giving mafia and extra secret vote for today. The earlier we give them their extra secret vote, the less powerful it is, so we should probably go with that one. I'm still skim-reading and post-skipping, but I should have time to actually read the thread tonight  | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 30 2012 21:41 Sbrubbles wrote: Also, if we force them to give us one roleblockable role and one information role, after we tally our votes, one of our PRs will be 100% sure of his accuracy. No, if we don't all decide on roleblocker, and KNOW that we have given them roleblocker, mafia just give us the cop and the tracker, and we can't trust either role because we don't know if there is a gf or framer. Which essentially means that we get no power roles, or worse, we get roles we can't trust. We NEED to know that they got roleblocker, or else all our checks are suspect, and mafia can talk themselves out of any red check. In every single scenario it is worth giving them roleblocker, and KNOWING that we have given them roleblocker. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 30 2012 21:51 Zephirdd wrote: IMO secret ballot shouldn't be used. Too much confusion if I understood it right. Also, scratch the last encrypted code. + Show Spoiler [what I picked] + ?b64xF1yM2Qy++9qlohfAHP+g6g4nA5rLPIXvQn02yFKhlP1oswI+B5HmNw3lsK+ KGjOakHLoluNDfPdwJr/5SCNaPlvWY0KLbBASU3hwAarQWXqXoOpMxJ4iOha1wdA ma7znGXACp71St85QQ94UsZElCjJzs6tgTzXhAn15x0jtcruTYHQMGjgr5PTTkhy w5uy?64b I don't see anyone doing that yet, and I'm sad  please post, encrypted, the role you picked for mafia(try to encrypt a phrase like "I picked *** because YYY" so it's hard to reverse-crack it). After this phase we de-crack our codes and verify the role we made mafia pick.I see no need to encrypt our roles, I honestly don't understand the need for it at all. No townie is going to lie tomorrow about what role he sent in today, and mafia is going to lie regardless of whether they encrypt or not. So why are we encrypting?? | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 30 2012 21:56 Zephirdd wrote: So mafia can't be 100% sure of and can't 100% send roles to counterpick ours. For instance, they may end up picking Tracker when we pick Roleblocker, which is great for us. That's what I got from it, at least. Ahh whatever. when we ask everyone tomorrow what they sent in(without encrypting today), all townies are going to tell the truth, and all mafia are going to lie. If we encrypt are roles today, all townies are going to tell the truth, and all mafia are going to lie. Encrypting does nothing. Regardless, It doesn't matter if mafia know they are getting roleblocker, as they still have to give us the roles we want. There is no advantage to mafia knowing they are getting roleblocker. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 30 2012 23:16 prplhz wrote: @Radfield What do you mean "scum are going to lie about their votes anyway"? Mafia do not actually send in any votes for what mafia gets, so they will have to lie about what they sent in. On May 30 2012 23:33 Kurumi wrote: If you fail to see how scummy this is, may Whoever help you That is not remotely scummy. I'm telling you there are certain reasons I can think of that I don't want mafia to know until they have picked our roles. Once they have picked our roles then I will gladly explain in further detail. Please don't be silly this game Kurumi, you have the potential to be an asset to town or mafia when you are a townie. Make it an asset to town. My statement becomes scummy when 1 of 2 things happen: a) I have no explanation for my statement tomorrow or b) I have an unsatisfactory explanation for that statement tomorrow. In either case, there is nothing even possibly scummy about that sentence yet. On May 31 2012 01:38 slOosh wrote: Radfield, I don't see any benefits of discussing why roleblocker is the weakest role after we choose it - your whole point of validating the cop checks etc. takes into account that even if mafia knew that they would receive roleblocker, we would still get good PRs. So mafia don't benefit from the discussion and town does - so why don't you want to talk about it? Again, it has to do with what the mafia are picking for us, which I obviously don't want to talk about until tomorrow. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
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Radfield
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 31 2012 04:14 Kurumi wrote: Remember that thing that You don't sign up for games when You don't have time? Excuses, excuses. Scum. I have time, but it is limited. I want to spend it filtering. How bout if I fail to do anything constructive then you can come at me for being scummy. I'll tell you what, you form nice coherent arguments you want me to respond to, and I will respond. On May 31 2012 05:11 wherebugsgo wrote: There are reasons I think roleblocker is the strongest role for mafia. For one, it stops claims dead in their tracks. If you have a tracker claim, as scum you don't have to kill the claimer if you have a roleblocker. Scum will never choose vigi or innocent child for us. That's pretty much out of the question. They'll choose between the other 3 roles, and at that point it's completely up to personal preference. re: bold You're missing something extremely important bugs, and I'll be glad to enlighten you once the picks are in(again, related to mafia choosing town roles). re:Italics Are you even reading what you've written? Lets say you are right, and scum will not choose vig or IC. That means we get 2 of medic, tracker, cop..... vs a roleblocker. That is fantastically unbalanced in favor of town. Because we know we're facing a roleblocker, our detectives KNOW that every check is true. The roleblocker is essentially useless except for the tracker, and he's going to claim only once he finds scum. Also consider, a tracker vs roleblocker has a good chance of finding the roleblocker because whomever the roleblocker visits will be notified(unlike a frame). So our tracker has a x2 chance of finding scum compared to the GF. On May 31 2012 05:54 prplhz wrote: That's a pretty generic question. I just think it's a little crazy that scum don't even get to vote, then it's really just going to be up to town and we're going to pick whatever. I also have no idea why Radfield is so much against encrypting our votes. It will do absolutely no harm and it might help us out. I'm only against it because I don't understand how it can help. Explain to me how it helps because right now I don't get it. I'm voting for the +1 secret vote for mafia. I feel like at worst they're going to use it to mislynch a townie who didn't quite get hammered, which isn't really that bad for town since it allows all the townies voting for the mislynch to refocus. In fact you could argue that it's smarter for scum to leave a townie alive who is at L-1, since we'll all think he is scum and lynch(or shoot) him Day 2. In short, +1 vote for mafia is pretty useless right now. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
If our votes say a framer should have been picked, but then a roleblocker gets flipped, we essentially have a listcheck on the framer votes for X amount of scum. I'm happy to encrypt mine if people want me to, but I think it's pretty obvious what I picked.... | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
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On May 31 2012 08:14 HiroPro wrote: Updated list of what I think the poison order should be: Day 1: #3 Secret Hidden Vote Day 2: #6 Majority +1 Day 3: #4 Mayor Election Day 4: #1 Lynch Lock Day 5: #7 24 Hour Day Cycle Day 6: #5 Hidden Lynch Not Used: Secret Ballot Obviously, the hiding role/alignment of the lynch can be used whenever/if we have lylo. Secret ballot is actually pretty non-scary once we only have 1 mafia left. I would probably rather slot Secret Ballot into Day 5, bump everything else up 1 and take out Majority +1 or 24 hour cycle. Majority +1 is a poor Day 2 slot, and should be used for a day when we have an obvious lynch target. Really though, none of the poisons are very dangerous if we use them appropriately. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
The strongest townies will be dead by Day 3, and we'll likely have pretty strong town reads by Day 2 given that we have an extra 24 hours of discussion right now. Given that, I would probably be in favor of a mayoral lynch Day 2, and the lynch lock on Day 3. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 31 2012 11:25 Zephirdd wrote: errr there is more to say, actually. First, The key is "zephirdd" and when using it to decrypt, the phrase is "I picked Framer for the mafia". Kurumi's reasonings convinced me much more than Radfield's. Also, I don't like that Radfield was initially against registering votes pre-deadline. The Rad I know doesn't just "skim" by what people say. Still, his town meta is "too town to be town", and here is just... normal town. Or rather, near null. That makes him red in my eyes. Discuss. Then you don't know me very well Zephridd I skim read all the time, and I do mean all the time. The strength of my play is that I go back and reread many times, and filter everyone many times. Knowing when you can skim and when you need to pay attention is something every good player utilizes, particularly when time is short. Yesterday I had points I wanted to make, and not enough time to do it in(particularly in the morning, when I didn't even finish my post).I obviously picked roleblocker. Anyways, the reason we publicly wanted roleblocker is that we desperately want a medic in this setup, and mafia knowing they are getting roleblocker dramatically increases the odds of us getting one. Consider that pretty much every single mini game ever has the potential for town to have a medic/jailkeeper/etc, the reason for this being that even the threat of having a protective role means mafia can't just shoot whomever they want, whenever they want. You guys are talking as if mafia having the roleblocker is dangerous because they can roleblock any blue claims, but that makes no sense. If we have no medic, mafia don't need to roleblock, they just shoot claimers in the face. If there is no medic in the setup, then roleblocker is an almost completely useless role for mafia. Think someone is blue? Shoot them in the face. Someone claims? Shoot them in the face. The reason that we have a much better chance of getting a medic by choosing roleblocker is that cop and tracker are far and away the worst roles for town in this setup, especially considering that mafia might get gf/framer. Tracker is especially bad, because of the fact that mafia get to choose which one performs the kill, and will always pick whomever is the most town, making the role almost useless unless the tracker holds his abilities until lategame. By picking roleblocker and mafia knowing it, they will likely shy away from giving us the information roles, and instead give us 2 of Vig/Medic/IC. However even if they give us one of those roles and the tracker, the one role they will probably give us is the medic, as I don't think most people realize how important it is to have a medic in a small setup. Again, having a medic is very important for us, because a medic doesn't even have to make a save and can still turn the tide of a game by forcing mafia to shoot away from the most obvious/strong townies. Picking roleblocker gave us the highest chance of getting that medic. Did players who became power roles KNOW they were going to be power roles before day 1? Or were they given the exact same vanilla PM as all the other players | ||
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