• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:13
CET 15:13
KST 23:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool43Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast ASL21 General Discussion Soulkey's decision to leave C9 JaeDong's form before ASL
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group B [ASL21] Ro24 Group A ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2865 users

[G][H] Muta ZvZ

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
sivadnivek
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States45 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-29 20:08:13
December 29 2011 17:29 GMT
#1
Hi TL! This is my first guide, and I basically want to just get down some of my thoughts on what I think is a superiour ZvZ style. I'm a platinum player who often gets matched up with low/mid tier diamond. I find that against these diamond players, I win very frequently in the ZvZ matchup with my strategy. However, I do struggle quite a bit in the ZvP matchup especially. Regardless, I'd like to touch on some critical points of my strat, and then add some thoughts for various stages of the game. So, my strat is more or less as follows:

Open aggressively. Especially on larger maps, players will be tempted to do one of two things mostly in ZvZ. Players will often 6-10 pool to get a meta-advantage on the second most likely option, which is a FE. So to account for both of these possibilities, I open aggressively with 14 gas 14 pool baneling play. This allows for me to establish a quick expansion (~21 supply) and also gain an economic advantage by microing properly with baneling ling. Also, if I open in this way I'm not vulnerable to 6 pools, 8 pools, 10 pools -- whatever fast pool strat my opponent uses.

Mid-game tech behind your aggressive open. This is a part of my strategy that needs a little more thought, admittedly. I generally strive for a 7:30 - 9:00 lair, depending upon how my aggression is going (and when I remember lol). Sadly, most of the games I lose are lost here. Either my opponent pushes while I tech too quickly, or s/he takes advantage of my late teching and gets out fast mutas of their own. I tend to find that when one player gets more mutas faster, that player wins. Thus, my mid-game strategy is to get out mutas as safely as possible, but also as quickly as possible. Finding the balance here can be quite challenging.

Mid- to late-game harassment. Keeping the muta count high is seemingly the most important thing to do in this stage of the game. Also, upgrades are extremely helpful here. Another objective in this game stage is to get up more expansions (safely, carefully though) than your opponent. This is where I find myself floating minerals and like to build lots of extra lings for mobility and also spine crawlers to prevent suicide roach/hydra/infestor attacks. But, it's important not to lose sight of the fact that this is where a lot of damage can be done. All overlords on the map should be killed at this point, all expansions scouted for, and then finally it's really easy to pick off extraneous gasses at various expansions of the opponent's. This picking off of gasses puts you way ahead in your mutalisk to mutalisk count, or your muta to hydra count.

Late game, whatever. Here is where you've already won the game, and can go towards whatever kind of lategame you like. I find myself playing against hydra roach A LOT. I'm not sure why I don't see a lot of diamond players going for this composition, as opposed to faster and more infestors, but for me the easy counter is getting up a good bane/ling count and attacking with the intention of my ground army just killing hydras/infestors, and then mutas cleaning up. Granted this choice is one that you'll have to make on the fly, just in a responsive way to your opponent's tech choices. banes can also effectively devastate mineral lines in this stage of the game, especially if your opponent went for some kind of roach/infestor play and is less mobile than you. Do something like pull their infestors away with harrass then suicide ~15 banes to kill many, many drones elsewhere. The key to lategame for me is to stay mobile with my whole army, however hunkering down once you've secured your marginal advantage can also be a good move.

This style works very well for me, but I'd love to hear your [critical] input.
Ok, well, that's about it from me. I'll post one replay with this, and maybe edit in a few later once I find them. Please give me your comments on both substantive matters, and also on the format of this brief guide! Thanks a lot.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16685
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16686

I'm gEnKiipUucHu.266 please add me with questions or for some games! Also, I stream pretty frequently on this site (although I think it's been disabled from the non-featured section even) as "sivadnivek"
agahamsorr0w
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands359 Posts
December 29 2011 17:38 GMT
#2
3rd muta guide for zvz or something. You didn't mention that armor for mutas are more valuable, though it costs more. Ling upgrades are also very helpful to keep the base advantage. If you have already won the game in the late game then your opponent is doing something wrong...
Isomer
Profile Joined November 2010
United States186 Posts
December 29 2011 19:22 GMT
#3
1. 14g14p is not an aggressive opening in ZvZ. It's actually the safest opening because you are safe against early pools (6-8) and slightly early pools (10-12).
2. 6-8 pools are actually not advantages against 15hatches who have proper decision making, as shown in a recent guide on TL. It is actually an even battle if you cancel the hatchery and use your drones to defend your morphing pool, considering you will have 15+ drones to fight with and he will only have 6 zerglings initially.
3. "7:30-9:00 or whenever I remember lol" is not a good Lair timing. If you are going mutas, you should strive to get your Lair slightly after your opponent, because mutalisks thrive when you are playing with an economic lead. This is because they stack really nicely and they are very fast, so the more of them you have the more cost efficient they can be. Furthermore, the chance of losing them to infestors is lessened if your opponent is behind because he will need to drone up or tech and risk losing to an all-in before infestors.

Think your play could use some refinement! There are some really good guides out there by blade, dApollo, chanmanV, MrBitter, and others which might help you on your quest for ZvP improvement. Personally, I go roach-ling and early 3rd (against FFE) and then go for quick hive tech (as opposed to mutas).
There's nothing cooler than being proud of what you love
sivadnivek
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States45 Posts
December 29 2011 19:29 GMT
#4
Thanks guys! @Isomer, I wasn't suggesting using mutas in ZvP, I agree with your suggestion. Also the 3."7:30-9:00 or whenever I remember lol" is admittedly the weakest part of this style of play for me. I like the idea to get it slightly after them, as yes economy is the most vital part of this play style.
Kaien
Profile Joined August 2011
Belgium178 Posts
December 29 2011 19:41 GMT
#5
on maps like meta and anitga, you should not go for muta but instead take a fast third and go roach/hydra.
it will practicly win evry time over muta
sivadnivek
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States45 Posts
December 29 2011 20:27 GMT
#6
@Kaien what are you basing that on? I don't mean to disagree directly, but you should check out that first replay; and I'm just wondering what your thought process is on that. Now granted, in that replay, neither me nor my opponent is playing anywhere near perfectly, perhaps not even that well.
sivadnivek
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States45 Posts
December 29 2011 20:28 GMT
#7
Also, Kaien, the thing about what I tried to outline above is that I don't let my opponent take a fast third, I keep the bane/ling pressure on them until I am comfortably ahead
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 47m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko493
LamboSC2 263
ProTech130
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 42805
Calm 6118
Horang2 3510
Shuttle 2815
Bisu 2382
Larva 900
ggaemo 698
BeSt 600
Soma 509
Mini 500
[ Show more ]
firebathero 498
Light 425
Stork 409
EffOrt 297
Rush 263
ZerO 261
Snow 258
actioN 257
Leta 169
Free 117
Zeus 109
ToSsGirL 85
Pusan 69
Killer 65
Mind 63
HiyA 63
Backho 62
PianO 59
Sharp 47
[sc1f]eonzerg 43
Hm[arnc] 32
Movie 29
Barracks 27
sorry 25
Nal_rA 22
Bale 21
soO 21
GoRush 15
IntoTheRainbow 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Terrorterran 10
Shinee 9
ivOry 8
Sacsri 5
Dota 2
Gorgc6535
BananaSlamJamma251
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1597
edward112
markeloff108
oskar36
adren_tv14
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK2
Other Games
singsing1925
B2W.Neo791
hiko698
XBOCT421
crisheroes309
DeMusliM218
Hui .185
Sick138
QueenE97
ArmadaUGS56
Rex20
Trikslyr15
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream42
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Noizen56
League of Legends
• Nemesis2266
• TFBlade760
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
9h 47m
Replay Cast
18h 47m
Afreeca Starleague
19h 47m
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
20h 47m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
KCM Race Survival
1d 18h
The PondCast
1d 19h
WardiTV Team League
1d 21h
OSC
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Platinum Heroes Events
4 days
BSL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
4 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
OSC
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-23
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.