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[G] TvP Reaper expand-low gas style.

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
phiinix
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1169 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-26 09:01:16
October 21 2011 04:32 GMT
#1
Foreword: + Show Spoiler +
I like to refer to this build as the new age 2-rax. The concept of the 2-rax is that it puts on some pressure on the protoss natural, punishing them if they play too greedy. At the same time, it provides units and infrastructure, allowing terran to secure his own natural expansion. This build functions the same way. except with 4 rax

The goals of this build are to:
1. Put on pressure to the protoss player while allowing yourself to secure a faster 3rd
2. Deny protoss’s 3rd
3. Stay ahead/on par with upgrades
4. Set up a good position for the midgame

How does this work? It's a 9:30-10:00ish push with stim, combat shields, shells, and +1. It's about 23 units, and with lots of marines, it packs quite a punch. That being said, I don’t believe I perfectly executed my build in any of the replays, but the idea is there. I made this build based on gas timings, so hence the weird 6:20 engie bay timing(the second it’s done you’ll have 100 gas for +1). You’ll notice the pulling of gas, to put them back at an exact time later, but I believe this build has a bit of flexibility. Don’t be afraid to put guys back in gas early, or even leave 1 scv in the whole time. Just remember if you forget to put guys back in gas, get your 2nd gas up earlier.
Since none of you will read this if it doesn’t have food numbers in it, I’ll put them in. or at least what makes sense.
I believe this build is hard to execute perfectly and a learning player will have difficulty, but a high skill cap is good right?
Build Order:
+ Show Spoiler +
10 depot
12 rax
13 gas
15 orbital
16 marine
16 tech lab
18 reaper NOTE: The reaper is NOT a probe killer. It is a scouter and anti-cheese measure. Keep it alive please. Read the cheese section.

Pull all scvs out of gas at 25 gas (you should have 100 total, for tech lab, reaper, and marauder)
19 cc, can be placed right at the front
bunker immediately after, on the low ground
@450 minerals 3 rax
@5:30 3 scvs back in gas
@6:00 2nd gas
@6:20 engineering bay
@100 gas stim
@7:00 tech lab
@100 gas +1
@100 gas combat shields
After you’ve started shields, you can go back to marauder production. As stim finishes you can grab shells too. Push when upgrades are done/near done. This build has a lot of marines, you're only making marauders after gas has been spent on all the necessary upgrades. Also as you move out, add 2 reactors


The push: + Show Spoiler +
As said before, the push is at about 9:30-10:00. The 3rd should be going up by 9 or 9:30 at the latest. This allows you the option to start your 3rd right on the minerals, no floating business. When you get to the protoss natural, stim and poke one marine forward to see what's up there. A full out engagement works well 8/10 times, but getting sliced by ff isn't a great idea. I will say that if a player is relying on sentries to keep him alive (like most protoss) but they miss or aren't paying attention, the game is pretty much over. Because of this, I consider this an autowin 9/10 times in leagues lower than diamond. It's just how the build works. For masters+, there isn't the option to just auto win on the spot. At the same time, if you can pick a fight, like on a map like tal (if you split the army around the 3rd), metalopolis, shattered temple, or any other map without a ramp leading into the nat, it's often times a good idea. You WANT to trade armies here. With the upgrades, you're almost guaranteed a cost efficient trade; just don't pick an awful angle.

If you can't get in, no worries. The build is about securing a 3rd and denying a 3rd, not killing you opponent. On most maps, protoss and triple ff and wall you off while they wait for whatever; colossus, another warp in, upgrades to finish. It doesn't really matter. The best form of scouting is to attack, so the idea is to get just know what he's up to. The timing of this build is generally right as colossus 1 is done, and you can often see it come out. Note: just because there's a colossus doesn't mean you can't win. If you get into the base, you can pick it off no problem. Sentries and ff are the game stoppers, not colossus.



The midgame:
+ Show Spoiler +

The rest of my build order goes something like this:
8:00 factory with double gas at the natural
9:00 3rd base
@300 minerals +2 rax
when factory is done, double starport, which will be swapped for 2 reactors (1 from factory, 1 from rax[which will make another reactor])



Be aware that medivac energy, stim, and shells allow you to dart in and out, and against melee zealots and force field mechanics, you can pick off a lot units while you macro if your opponent doesn't pick the robo tech route. Take your gases! this build gets scvs and mules just fine; the key to winning later engagements are upgrades. By getting up the 5th/6th gases, you can get the armory, +2/+2, and ghost academy much faster.

Against double forge templar: Once you can get 4-8 medivacs out, you need to put heavy pressure on the 3rd with drop threats in the the main. You can expect storm to be done by 12 if they get it pretty early, with +2/+2 done by 14 min. Even with storm on the board, remember that they are limited by energy so you should try to bait storms and be very active at the front. Your macro should involve getting a 4rd for gas to support upgrades and ghosts, with an eventual banshee transition to deal with zealot/storm.

Against traditional colossus: You can afford to be much more passive against this style, just keep in mind that protoss can support double forge colossus, so you should stay on top of upgrades if you can. Gas is a little tight, but definitely favor vikings. With about 6-8 medivacs, the rest vikings, and 6 rax (4 tech, 2 reactor) worth of production, a 3 base 170 food push is often times too much for protoss to handle. Just make sure you try to get up a 4th at a good time (15-17), and add rax and a ghost academy. If you can hit before the storm transition you'll be in a good spot most of the time.



Expansions and late game+ Show Spoiler +

So the question is, with all this stuff, 5 rax, double starports, double engie bay upgrades, where is there time for a 4th? I generally wait until protoss 3rd is really up and running. I've tried to get 4ths up faster than this, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Get your 2nd and 3rd bases up fast regardless. your 4th should be scout based.
The thing is that 3 base is really where the players are saturated, nice and cozy. Think about it like this. When someone 1 bases, and the other player fes, the fe player almost always once they can hold off the attack. By this I mean the follow up all-in is usually awful, any expo attempt puts them so far behind that the game is pretty over. However, in the 3 base+ context, follow up pushes are still VERY strong, and since facilities are established, they come MUCH faster as well. Getting up a 4th up fast doesn't help your econ that much anyhow, since you're decently saturated on 2.5 base. Getting mined out in your main isn't the worst thing that can happen if you're still on 2 mining bases. It's very important to get up additional bases, but you don't want to sink in 400 minerals (plus the PF cost) if it's going to cause to you fall behind in army or rax count.

I DON'T think more bio, drops, and nukes is the way to win. So what can you do? Well nukes help, and ghosts are certainly necessary, but other units are important too. As the game goes on I start adding on starports, usually +2, for a total of 4, is all I can afford based on gas income. Given the affinity for zealot warpins, I like banshees just because they fly. Dps isn't awful, and it also gets the bonus from the ship weapons from vikings. I get cloak to avoid feed back, and if you can snipe observers, they just add damage over time that can't be targeted by anything other than aoe from storm.



Weaknesses to the build: + Show Spoiler +
Heavy early stalker poking, Fast blink harassment, warp prism drops are general responses that can put on some pain to the build. Stalkers just kill marines well, so before stim and marauders are up, you'll have to play a bit defensively. Good usage of depots is actually the counter to blink stalkers trying to run past your front and into your main, so think about depot timings and plan accordingly. As for warp prisms, it's more about the prism itself rather than the warping of units; as with any drop play, the counter is just playing well and keeping a good eye on the mini map. It helps that large marine numbers and shoot down prisms without too much trouble, but again, depot placement. Fast chrono boosted zealots can also be a problem, just because reapers take so long to build so there's a small gap for harassment

The largest weakness to this build is the factory timing. It's late. This leaves a timing window for colossus timings, and believe me, it's rough to deal with. The problem is that the opening is extremely tight, and it's almost like you have to get gas out of nowhere to get starports up in time.


CHEEEEEEESE!
I wouldn’t normally do this, but I feel this section is necessary. I thought The general sc2 population was just getting cheesier, but after talking to a few protosses, they said it’s not too uncommon to cheese a player who opens reaper expand by reaction, since they often feel like they need to put on pressure or they’re behind (if they don’t 1 gate fe). Which is fine.

General tips on scouting toss cheese/general play: Depots on the ledge to scout for pylons in the early game. Because losing to proxy 2 gate in your base is just dumb. If you get the expo up safely, put depots as if you were walling in. The wall mechanic will save you more often than not. After you get your 1st bunker up, you should constantly be scouting for an expansion. Jinro once said “your scouting scv should never return to your base.” This is absolutely true. The second I send out my scouting scv at 14 food or whatever, that scv is DEAD. Pull it back to the tower if the stalker doesn’t kill it, rim it around the expo, patrol it in a corner next to the nat, but never never bring it back. At 5, and every 30 second interval, scout for an expo. If your apm can handle it, after you fill your first bunker and get a few extra marines, send the reaper around and scout for possible proxy stargates. If the scouting scv died to the first stalker, send another. You NEED to see the expo. If your opponent hasn’t expanded by 6, he’s cheesing you. You’ll see in my reps that I’ll even scan to check the expo at 6 minutes if It was denied because it’s THAT important. If he’s not, you’re ahead with whatever precaution you take anyway because his eco sucks.

-At 5:30, if there’s no expansion I put down a second bunker. Sac the scv into the main, and sac your reaper too. If need be, scan, but your reaper can usually get you the intel you need. If you only spot 2 gates, turret up. Better safe than sorry.

There are 2 types of protoss cheese: 1 gas and 2 gas. The timing of a early second gas is 3:30, meaning it will be done at 4, so if you scout it, be on the lookout for cheese. Note that a 1 gas protoss can cheese, while a 2 gas protoss will cheese.

-Don’t be too hasty to box everything and attack. Time is on your side. If possible, pull back, wait for upgrades to finish.

-Don’t over extend. In general, push with a comfortable size army after upgrades have finished, and delay your 3rd. If you play calm and play often, you’ll find it can be pretty hard to lose after you’ve held cheese well.

1 gas:
4 gate: + Show Spoiler +
the easiest hold. 2 bunkers (+1 then your default)with repair usually has no problem against this. You might be stretched on xel, but I haven’t decided if it’s a good idea in general to open this way on xel at all.


3 gate void ray: + Show Spoiler +
The one gas variation is less common, but still quite strong. Rather than pushing the front, these players usually try to warp in zealots into your main, since 1 gas doesn’t allow to too many stalkers, and repair at the front, even without a turret can hold it. By default you should have 2 bunkers after you’ve confirmed cheese, and remember depots on the edges. It’s worth getting supply blocked when the vr kills your depot to know that you’re getting cheesed. Leave a total of 4-5 units in bunkers, (if it hits before you can confirm cheese, leave 1 full bunker and a few idle auto repair scvs) and if you pull everything else back to the ledge in your main, you should be fine.


2 gas: In my experience anytime i scout early 2 gas, the question isn't if there is cheese coming, the question is when. Protoss can cheese off of 1 base or 2, so just because you see an expo doesn't mean you're free to play macro. for one base play, 5:30in game time should be the time when all tech for a cheese should be down, and your opponent won’t be able to have too many units out due to heavy teching, so you can usually get full intel with a reaper. Anytime you see zealot-sentry rather than zealot-stalker is also a reason to be suspicious.

3 gate void ray: + Show Spoiler +
You should have 2 bunkers, 2 turrets in the front. Since the engie bay is built into the build, you don’t have to worry so much, but if I usually put up a turret right behind my bunkers, and 1 on the side If I can. If you know it’s void rays, 1 turret in your mineral lines should do the trick. Take a 3rd gas if you can, and get up factory->starport asap. Your defense is stim marines and medivac support. Vikings are fine on defense, but medivacs allow you to put pressure back on your opponent after you’ve held. Play calm, add bunkers if you feel you need it, because in cheese scenarios, your opponent is playing against the clock. Never forget this.


3 gate/4 gate zealot immortal bust: + Show Spoiler +
You might be able to catch an early robo with your scouting scv, as the timing is 4:30, but if you can’t, you’ll be relying on scans and reapers. Lucky you, 1 immortal isn’t much, and you can scout this in the open without too much trouble. At 6:20, 1 immortal and wg tech should be done, with immortals coming out 1 every 50 seconds or so. If you ever scout 2 immortals, and no expo, you should be convinced.I usually add a rax asap, as well as a factory to tech to starport. The keys to winning here (not defending mind you) are stim and medivacs. 3 bunkers are the minimum, 4 would be nice. It's recommended to NOT put them all touching since ff will ruin your day, instead it's perfectly reasonable to leave some spacing and gapping even if your back bunkers can't hit the front stalkers/immortals


Twilight tech: If you scout twilight tech upgrading it’s charge or blink. If you scout twilight tech not upgrading, it’s dt shrine, whether you see it or not.
Blink/charge all ins: + Show Spoiler +
bunker bunker. Usually 3 bunkers total and good depot placement holds either of these fairly well. The annoying part of blink is mobility, so you should be walling with depots by default whether you think protoss is cheesing or not. They lower themselves, so make use of it. Charge/ff pushes aren’t too hard to hold, even if you can’t get any repairing. If you can keep stalkers from getting into your main, you’ll be in good shape.


Dt: + Show Spoiler +
1 in each of your mineral lines first, then by your bunker. Depot wall off at the ramp if possible. No more mules. Easy. The follow up gives some people trouble. Get factory->starport asap, apply a bit of pressure when your upgrades are done, +2 rax, and push with 2-4 medivacs. Don’t plan on taking a third.


2 base all-ins:
1 gas opening 6-8 gate all in [spoiler] By now all the rax are done, the only problem is knowing when the push comes. You should be trying to scout with your reaper somewhere around 7:30-8:00. Try to cover at least half the base, and scan if you can't see the other base. the counter for this is just more bunkers

2 gas cheeses + Show Spoiler +
This is almost always going to be robo tech, more often colossus timings rather than immortals. For immortals, it's just bunkers, but for collossus, you need to scout quickly and react fast. You should plan to scout at 7:30-8:00 per usual, and the robo bay will be starting by then. The other tell is that protoss (if he opens 1 gate 2 gas fe) takes his 3rd and 4th gases pretty damn fast, although this can be hard to scout without a scan. By 8:00 you need to confirm that colo are coming. Drop the plans for a 3rd, get factory at 8:00, and double gas with +1 rax, and add 2 reactors on the other 2 rax (so you should have 2 tech labs and 2 reactors, with a naked rax building). Gas is realllly important at this point. once the factory is done go straight for double starport, while building a reactor on the factory as usual. once the starports are done, swap one with the factory, and swap one with one of the rax, and go for 4 medivacs, followed by rounds of vikings. With a little bit of luck on the timing and decent control, you can come out ahead in this engagement with only your original bunker, and counter for the win


With that, I’ve leave you with the reps. These games were after I got back into school, so the play is sloppy, and not as many games as I’d like to showcase. But they’re to show the build, not show me winning right? If I get enough responses and people want more replays, I’ll do my best to get on and play some more tvp.
tvp1
tvp2
tvp3
tvp4
tvp5
tvp6
tvp7

new:
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(P)MuffinMan_vs_(T)Blackteet/18117
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(T)Blackteet_vs_(P)ohampatu/18115
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(T)Blackteet_vs_(P)MnMTiGA/18116
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Ameiya_vs_(T)Blackteet/18114

ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
October 21 2011 04:35 GMT
#2
Day9 did a daily on this build. Its definitely good. If you scout cheese you get combatshields first and if they expand u get stim first.
TL+ Member
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
October 21 2011 04:42 GMT
#3
This is pretty clever but you should clean up the OP a little bit. However, its not really a reaper build, its 1 rax tech lab first for scouting. That's like calling the 2 rax expand with reaper scout: reaper 2 rax expand.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
phiinix
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1169 Posts
October 21 2011 06:53 GMT
#4
Well it's not a tech lab first build since you get a marine before the tech lab.. If you get a reaper and expand, is it really a misnomer to call it a reaper expand? Should the hellion expand in tvz be renamed as reactor first 4 hellions for map control and creep deny expand? How should the op be cleaned up?
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