|
I open this thread to remember the victims of the 9/11/1973 coup d'état in Chile and to inform about those events: to remember and to be informed is the starting point to let those things never happen again.
According to some sources the victims are to be estimated around
30.000 death
600.000 tortured
Edit 2: many people complaining about the numbers. go to end post edit 2.
The coup, which had the involvement of the USA, overthrew the democratically elected government and his president Salvator Allende.
You can find some information, as a starting point, about the coup on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d'état
and you can find the last speech of president allende here:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende's_Last_Speech
and this is short excerpt of that speech:
"They have force and will be able to dominate us, but social processes can be arrested by neither crime nor force. History is ours, and people make history."
----
Note:
if you want to discuss the events referred in this thread it is ok, but anything that brings in, compares or whatever, the Chiles events to 9/11/2001 as a terrorist act is off-topic as is disrespectful to the victims of both events and it's not my intention doing so. in other words: don't be an asshole.
edit: found a typo thx to grumbels to final note was "... the Chiles events to 9/11/2011 as a..." and was obviously wrong. now it's " ... the Chiles events to 9/11/2001 as a..."
edit 2: many people are complaining about the numbers of deaths: I remember reading them some years ago, sorry, don't know which book. However the numbers are to be intended in this way: not just death toll of the days of the coup, but also all the deaths of the following regime.
I also have to say that i do not want to make an exact claim on the numbers of death: i'm no historian and, i knew when i posted it first time, that wikipedia has other numbers. But wikipedia it's not an exact source, imho at least, it serves, to me, as a starting point of information.
For completeness I'll say there are some who say 3000 are killed for sure, but then there are more missing. How many? I don't know and I don't claim right numbers, I hope that after this edit people don't complain about it and use it to prove that i'm a troll or something: those numbers are subject of historical debate, so debate about history, not about me not knowing history 
|
It's good to bring back events like that to people's memory.
|
"Of these approximately 40,000 to 50,000 perfunctory arrests, several hundred individuals would later be detained, questioned, tortured, and in some cases murdered"
How are you getting your 30000 death? I took that from the wiki page you linked
|
On September 11 2011 22:36 ArcticRaven wrote:
It's good to bring back events like that to people's memory.
Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....
|
On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 22:36 ArcticRaven wrote:
It's good to bring back events like that to people's memory. Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....
It's 38 year anniversary of what happened in Chile
|
|
|
On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 22:36 ArcticRaven wrote:
It's good to bring back events like that to people's memory. Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....
ehhhh it happened on the same day...if today isnt a day to do it then what it? and the same CAN apply to any event in history - it still happened on a god given day.
what a stupid thing to say ..... reaks of rightchousness
|
On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 22:36 ArcticRaven wrote:
It's good to bring back events like that to people's memory. Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....
It happened on the same fucking day? When he should have posted it?
RIP to all who lost their lifes because of this.
|
Please guys remember that this sort of informal review is more than to commemorate the dead, its about learning from the past in order to prepare for the future, please bear this in mind before posting
Its important to analyse these past events to properly understand some of the mechanics behinds what halts social progress, and to find ways to overcome them in future attempts. Its takes more than honourable goals to move peacefully into the future, it takes careful planning.
Possibly Allende's greatest achievement, and ultimate sacrafice, was in finding a way to show future generations that the way things go right now are clearly not the best, and its only a matter of ignorance which perpetuates them.
edit: please keep focus lads, the first page so far is filled up with a ridiculous debate upon the day of the year, smarten up guys
|
As horrible as it was... I feel it's ill timed... It's kind of like mentioning Hiroshima on 9/11, like reminding a man of his worst decisions on a day when he already wishes to weep. As an American I believe that the United States should be held accountable more than any nation in the world for its wrong-doings, but on a day like 9/11 I just want to say.. "Shut the fuck up, I already feel like a piece of shit, you damn idiot!"
I know, you'll probably mention something like "Well, TEN TIMES as many people died and scores times more tortured, how can you even compare your sorrow to theirs?"
And I'd answer "On the anniversary of your father's death it doesn't matter to you that he may have killed a dozen men, all that matters to you is the fact that he can no longer be by your side."
I'm sorry. I am so sorry.
EDIT: If you have half a fucking brain and read my post you'd realize that even though I said I FEEL it's ill timed that it should be posted and that I'm thankful that it WAS posted.
"Also, seeing as it's an international board..." comments are hilarious.
|
On September 11 2011 22:48 ShatterZer0 wrote:
As horrible as it was... I feel it's ill timed... It's kind of like mentioning Hiroshima on 9/11, like reminding a man of his worst decisions on a day when he already wishes to weep. As an American I believe that the United States should be held accountable more than any nation in the world for its wrong-doings, but on a day like 9/11 I just want to say.. "Shut the fuck up, I already feel like a piece of shit, you damn idiot!"
I know, you'll probably mention something like "Well, TEN TIMES as many people died and scores times more tortured, how can you even compare your sorrow to theirs?"
And I'd answer "On the anniversary of your father's death it doesn't matter to you that he may have killed a dozen men, all that matters to you is the fact that he can no longer be by your side."
I'm sorry. I am so sorry.
what do u mean ill-timed? he can't exactly go back to 1973 and tell them not to have a coup on sept. 11. @ OP:Thank you for this piece of info, I didnt know about it.
|
On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 22:36 ArcticRaven wrote:
It's good to bring back events like that to people's memory. Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....
Yeah, obviously the lives of 3000 Americans are worth more than those of 30,000 Chileans.
|
On September 11 2011 22:39 zezamer wrote:
"Of these approximately 40,000 to 50,000 perfunctory arrests, several hundred individuals would later be detained, questioned, tortured, and in some cases murdered"
How are you getting your 30000 death? I took that from the wiki page you linked
Yep, 3000 were killed - OP is wrong.
|
The way you put it makes it sound like 30,000 died and 600,000 were tortured ON sept 11, and not as a result of actions on that day. Obviously it is the latter.
@people attacking DaCruise, I suppose his point is that this is the 38th aniv of this event, and there is no real importance of that aniv as opposed to a 10th, 50th or 100th. I didn't see any posts about this during any of the previous 9 years before this 10th year aniv of 9/11 so it comes off as a bitter troll who doesn't like everybody talking about the US and it's loss of citizens by showcasting that other countries have tragedies as well (which can be caused by the US) making the OP both an incosiderate asshole and a troll.
At least one could argue that and some people seem to be.
More on topic, I had not heard of this event before reading this post so I learned something new today. Shame such a horrible event had to happen.
|
On September 11 2011 22:48 ShatterZer0 wrote:
As horrible as it was... I feel it's ill timed... It's kind of like mentioning Hiroshima on 9/11, like reminding a man of his worst decisions on a day when he already wishes to weep. As an American I believe that the United States should be held accountable more than any nation in the world for its wrong-doings, but on a day like 9/11 I just want to say.. "Shut the fuck up, I already feel like a piece of shit, you damn idiot!"
I know, you'll probably mention something like "Well, TEN TIMES as many people died and scores times more tortured, how can you even compare your sorrow to theirs?"
And I'd answer "On the anniversary of your father's death it doesn't matter to you that he may have killed a dozen men, all that matters to you is the fact that he can no longer be by your side."
I'm sorry. I am so sorry.
It happened on the same day.
This is an international board, this thread deserves just as much attention as the other 9/11 thread.
RIP to all the victims in both tragic 9/11 events.
|
Very important event that is forgotten by way to many people!
|
Guess what? Everyday in our calendar year is linked with the slaughter of thousands of people. The fact that you're choosing to commemorate a random one has jack shit to do with honoring the people that died in Chile and everything to do with trying to make some stupid douchebag point about US foreign policy. That's probably even more insulting to a Chilean than to an American.
p.s. the fact that you're pretending like this has nothing to do with 9/11 and are just choosing to honor people, makes you cowardly, imo. At least stand up for the point you're trying to make.
|
On September 11 2011 22:39 zezamer wrote:
"Of these approximately 40,000 to 50,000 perfunctory arrests, several hundred individuals would later be detained, questioned, tortured, and in some cases murdered"
How are you getting your 30000 death? I took that from the wiki page you linked
I said: according to some sources, i don't know which ones are exact. The problem is, as you may know, that of "disappeared" (desaparecidos): it is difficult to have good estimation af the deaths of people who cannot be found. Of course i'm referring to the deaths caused not only in the days of the coup by itself, but to the deaths following it too.
On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 22:36 ArcticRaven wrote:
It's good to bring back events like that to people's memory. Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....
I didn't: it's not anybody fault if they both happened the 11th of september. just that, plain and simple. If you want to know: at my university my student's group used to hang a poster about Chile every year, so, personally, it's not something i do this year for the first time. it's the first time i do on TL because i signed up here in the past year or so... have a good day
|
On September 11 2011 22:54 BlackJack wrote:
Guess what? Everyday in our calendar year is linked with the slaughter of thousands of people. The fact that you're choosing to commemorate a random one has jack shit to do with honoring the people that died in Chile and everything to do with trying to make some stupid douchebag point about US foreign policy. That's probably even more insulting to a Chilean than to an American.
wtf leave this thread?
As an international observer I found this thread much more meaningful than the American 9/11 thread. Simply because I had no idea about this incident before. Memorials are held for things to be remembered and this thread serves its purpose.
|
On September 11 2011 22:52 On_Slaught wrote:
The way you put it makes it sound like 30,000 died and 600,000 were tortured ON sept 11, and not as a result of actions on that day. Obviously it is the latter.
@people attacking DaCruise, I suppose his point is that this is the 38th aniv of this event, and there is no real importance of that aniv as opposed to a 10th, 50th or 100th. I didn't see any posts about this during any of the previous 9 years before this 10th year aniv of 9/11 so it comes off as a bitter troll who doesn't like everybody talking about the US and it's loss of citizens by showcasting that other countries have tragedies as well (which can be caused by the US) making the OP both an incosiderate asshole and a troll.
At least one could argue that and some people seem to be.
More on topic, I had not heard of this event before reading this post so I learned something new today. Shame such a horrible event had to happen.
Thx. This is what I meant.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
