9/11/1973 remember victims of Chile coup d'état

On September 11 2011 22:36 ArcticRaven wrote:
It's good to bring back events like that to people's memory.

On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:


Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....

On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:


Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....

On September 11 2011 22:48 ShatterZer0 wrote:
As horrible as it was... I feel it's ill timed... It's kind of like mentioning Hiroshima on 9/11, like reminding a man of his worst decisions on a day when he already wishes to weep. As an American I believe that the United States should be held accountable more than any nation in the world for its wrong-doings, but on a day like 9/11 I just want to say.. "Shut the fuck up, I already feel like a piece of shit, you damn idiot!"

I know, you'll probably mention something like "Well, TEN TIMES as many people died and scores times more tortured, how can you even compare your sorrow to theirs?"

And I'd answer "On the anniversary of your father's death it doesn't matter to you that he may have killed a dozen men, all that matters to you is the fact that he can no longer be by your side."

I'm sorry. I am so sorry.

On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:


Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....

On September 11 2011 22:39 zezamer wrote:
"Of these approximately 40,000 to 50,000 perfunctory arrests, several hundred individuals would later be detained, questioned, tortured, and in some cases murdered"

How are you getting your 30000 death? I took that from the wiki page you linked

On September 11 2011 22:48 ShatterZer0 wrote:
As horrible as it was... I feel it's ill timed... It's kind of like mentioning Hiroshima on 9/11, like reminding a man of his worst decisions on a day when he already wishes to weep. As an American I believe that the United States should be held accountable more than any nation in the world for its wrong-doings, but on a day like 9/11 I just want to say.. "Shut the fuck up, I already feel like a piece of shit, you damn idiot!"

I know, you'll probably mention something like "Well, TEN TIMES as many people died and scores times more tortured, how can you even compare your sorrow to theirs?"

And I'd answer "On the anniversary of your father's death it doesn't matter to you that he may have killed a dozen men, all that matters to you is the fact that he can no longer be by your side."

I'm sorry. I am so sorry.

On September 11 2011 22:39 zezamer wrote:
"Of these approximately 40,000 to 50,000 perfunctory arrests, several hundred individuals would later be detained, questioned, tortured, and in some cases murdered"

How are you getting your 30000 death? I took that from the wiki page you linked

On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:


Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....

On September 11 2011 22:54 BlackJack wrote:
Guess what? Everyday in our calendar year is linked with the slaughter of thousands of people. The fact that you're choosing to commemorate a random one has jack shit to do with honoring the people that died in Chile and everything to do with trying to make some stupid douchebag point about US foreign policy. That's probably even more insulting to a Chilean than to an American.

On September 11 2011 22:52 On_Slaught wrote:
The way you put it makes it sound like 30,000 died and 600,000 were tortured ON sept 11, and not as a result of actions on that day. Obviously it is the latter.

@people attacking DaCruise, I suppose his point is that this is the 38th aniv of this event, and there is no real importance of that aniv as opposed to a 10th, 50th or 100th. I didn't see any posts about this during any of the previous 9 years before this 10th year aniv of 9/11 so it comes off as a bitter troll who doesn't like everybody talking about the US and it's loss of citizens by showcasting that other countries have tragedies as well (which can be caused by the US) making the OP both an incosiderate asshole and a troll.

At least one could argue that and some people seem to be.

More on topic, I had not heard of this event before reading this post so I learned something new today. Shame such a horrible event had to happen.

On September 11 2011 22:54 BlackJack wrote:
Guess what? Everyday in our calendar year is linked with the slaughter of thousands of people. The fact that you're choosing to commemorate a random one has jack shit to do with honoring the people that died in Chile and everything to do with trying to make some stupid douchebag point about US foreign policy. That's probably even more insulting to a Chilean than to an American.

p.s. the fact that you're pretending like this has nothing to do with 9/11 and are just choosing to honor people and is just a coincidence makes you cowardly, imo. At least stand up for the point you're trying to make.

On September 11 2011 22:58 sekritzzz wrote:

wtf leave this thread?

As an international observer I found this thread much more meaningful than the American 9/11 thread. Simply because I had no idea about this incident before. Memorials are held for things to be remembered and this thread serves its purpose.

On September 11 2011 23:01 iamtheoneneo wrote:

you know what America is not the centre of the planet - some americans may think it is (im gonna assume your one of those) but its not and people approach this day under a different angle.

ie. for many this day will reflect a certain day perhaps in ww2 , and compared to what happened 10 years ago it was a drop in the ocean compared to what they went through...its called personal persepctive.

On September 11 2011 23:08 BlackJack wrote:

It's called etiquette. If someone tells you a certain day is the anniversary where there mother passed away you don't say "So what, millions of people die everyday. You are not the center of the universe!"

On September 11 2011 23:01 k1mjee wrote:

You make me sick, you really do.

On September 11 2011 23:10 Twoinches wrote:


but if both our mothers died on the exact same day you cant be like "dont talk about your moms death today, Mine died today assholes"

On September 11 2011 23:10 Twoinches wrote:


but if both our mothers died on the exact same day you cant be like "dont talk about your moms death today, Mine died today assholes"

On September 11 2011 23:16 getSome[703] wrote:


The purpose of this thread is solely to deride and mock the U.S. by bringing up a past misdeed that happens to coincide with the anniversary of 9/11. This isn't about honoring and respecting victims of the Chilean rebellion - just look at the OP's post history. It looks like he specifically started posting to try to stir up some drama.

This is fucking appalling.

On September 11 2011 23:19 CoolguyBad wrote:
It's alright to mention this today, even if it's on the same day as the 10 year anni of 9/11. However, I feel like the OP decided to do this as a "joke" to "troll", kind of saying, "Who cares about the 10 year anniversary of those WTC bombings?". That's just a feeling I have though. I noticed he purposely mentioned US involvement, not sure of what the point of that was.

On September 11 2011 23:20 sekritzzz wrote:

Ok so he joined on March 27th, tried to act like a sc2 player by posting about void rays and a "Yellow" thread , just so he can make a thread 6 months later on sept.11th to ridicule the fall of the twin towers?


If anything his past history contradicts your reasoning?

On September 11 2011 23:16 getSome[703] wrote:


The purpose of this thread is solely to deride and mock the U.S. by bringing up a past misdeed that happens to coincide with the anniversary of 9/11. This isn't about honoring and respecting victims of the Chilean rebellion - just look at the OP's post history. It looks like he specifically started posting to try to stir up some drama.

This is fucking appalling.

On September 11 2011 22:55 pippo_jedi wrote:


I didn't: it's not anybody fault if they both happened the 11th of september. just that, plain and simple. If you want to know: at my university my student's group used to hang a poster about Chile every year, so, personally, it's not something i do this year for the first time. it's the first time i do on TL because i signed up here in the past year or so... have a good day

On September 11 2011 22:55 pippo_jedi wrote:


I said: according to some sources, i don't know which ones are exact. The problem is, as you may know, that of "disappeared" (desaparecidos): it is difficult to have good estimation af the deaths of people who cannot be found. Of course i'm referring to the deaths caused not only in the days of the coup by itself, but to the deaths following it too.

On September 11 2011 23:33 MandoRelease wrote:


That's not really open-minded. Please calm down, and do not derail the thread.

On September 11 2011 23:27 getSome[703] wrote:


If you want to ignore what the OP is so obviously doing, that's fine. A goat with half a brain would be able to identify that he's just taking a giant shit on the U.S. by highlighting their involvement and exaggerating the death toll. Maybe he didn't join TL with this intention but he's sure getting away with it now.

On September 11 2011 23:45 sekritzzz wrote:
Look, I am not denying the fact that this could be a troll post but there simply is no evidence.

On September 11 2011 23:51 hotbreakfest wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but there is a lot of misinformation in the OP... Considering this thread is only about the 9/11 coup d'état, adding an extra 0 to the death tole is bit ridiculous. It also says that the military imprisoned ~40,000 vs 600,000.
Not trying to devalue this or anything, we just need to get the facts straight.
This thread turned into a shitfest pretty quickly.

On September 11 2011 23:53 muse5187 wrote:

I hate to say it but I'm pretty sure that was exactly the OP's intention.

On September 11 2011 23:53 Paperplane wrote:
Instead of turning this into a 30 page flame fest let's just calm down for a second. It doesn't matter if this was a troll or not. I can understand many feel very emotional about this day but please just instead of flaming on forums spend this day doing what really matters.
Honoring the dead, both Chilean and American.

On September 12 2011 00:09 pippo_jedi wrote:
Hi,
too many post to quote, so sorry if I miss something and if it's a little non-linear

First of all, as I wrote on the note, all the people that are making comparison between the coup in 1973 and the terrorist acts on the twin towers are, in my opinion, ASSHOLES, both the kind: the one that says x death are more than y deaths trying to "defend" to OP or the ones the says that I opened this thread to troll the victims of the 9/11: I explicitly asked to stay away from that as it is disrespectful and has nothing to do with the events of 1973.

As I stated the purpose of this tread is to remember, to inform people about an event that i consider important. Are there other important events in history that should be remembered? yes, opening a thread about one does not make the others less significant, though.
And anyone not thinking is important can simply ignore this thread: I do not post on the My Little Pony thread as i find it not interesting.

I mentioned USA involvement because it's a thing worth mentioning: not so many people are aware of that but I also pointed to the wiki and encouraged to read more on that so anyone can form his own idea and not be biased by what, very little in truth, I wrote.

To DaCruise: I am one of those that every year post something about this on facebook or social networks, since i consider myself part of TL community I also wrote it here. It is not my intent to be disrespectful to the ones who died on 9/11/2001 and I feel bad for the ones that can feel hurt by this thread, but this thread has nothing to do with them.

someone made i point that I'm italian and that they hope i'm a least from chile: 1) one has not to be from chile to be informed about it and to write about it, to suggest otherwise sounds silly to me 2) As it happens when I was around 2 my family took some refugees from Chile, do that piece of personal information validate my entire thread? not really, just wrote it to underline how that argument is weak. Is as if someone (ad hitlerum quote now) has to be Hebrew to discuss about holocaust, or japanese about hirosihma...

A couple of posts wrote that by writing this, it's inevitable to make comparisons as it is a elephant in the room. Well: as the opener of this thread i have the right to ask not to talk about some things: it was clear to me that i would have attracted criticism for doing it but I wanted also to make clear that my idea was another one. If people don't believe me and think i'm lying, that i'ìm a troll, well: they are entitled to have their opinion, i'm not a TL veteran and have not a long reputation so it's ok, i expect that, i only ask to be polite and don't derail this thread: you have made your point, now we can move on and be spared the long series of "F##KING TROLL" post?

If you think i'm a troll you are feeding the troll, so stop now: you're already warned the community of this, more is just feeding.
If i'm not, you're attracting one or you're derailing the thread.

Peace

On September 12 2011 00:22 DamageControL wrote:
Tragedy is tragedy.

On September 12 2011 00:24 Navillus wrote:

If you are going to on the tenth anniversary of the biggest tragedy in the US in recent memory make some thread about how all of these people died due to US foreign policy you better as fuck have actual sources for what you're claiming, especially if you're claiming 30,000 people died when the only article that you linked makes it look like at most 1,000, sure I'll accept that most people that disappeared are probably dead and that we should include deaths on days after, but only after you actually give us a freaking source, until then you should either change the OP to reflect the numbers that we're reading or stop making this claim altogether.

On September 11 2011 23:44 Grumbels wrote:
I found http://ziomania.com/articles2011/03/50.htm on google which says the official number of deaths is roughly 3000, but there are 'credible estimates' that the real number is between three and ten times as much. So potentially there have been 30k killed, although I guess it'd be fairer to say between 10 and 30k.

In any case, I suppose this topic is controversial, but I hope people will realize that there have been a lot more massacres and mass killings than just 9/11 and it's not a bad thing to also remember the less-known ones.

On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:


Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it.....

On September 12 2011 00:43 g. wrote:


I'm going to be brutally honest in saying that the media has a large role to play in this. No, im not one of those "OMG MEDIA ZIONIST PIGS CONTROL THE LAND" sort of people but clearly the media does come into effect in this case. Compared to other events in recent history, 9/11 is a minor blip on a radar filled with mass genocides (in some cases upto 20% of a countrys population killed) and other brutal acts of the lifes of innocent civilians whether it by by their goverments or some rogue group.

In other words, would we be standing here to day commemorating the lives lost of people in a terrorist attack if the events of 9/11 were to have happened in Johannesburg, South Africa rather than than New York. Can you tell me the date and time of the terrorist attacks on London, Madrid or Bali (off the top head)? How many innocent lives were lost in India/Pakistan in 1947? But I'm sure that most of us could answer these questions if they were asked about 9/11. Why is that?

Why do we remember those who have died on 9/11 but only a few of us can commemorate the thousands of people who die each day due to poverty or those who have died in the past because of rogue terrorist groups or corrupt governments? It really comes down to what we hear, see and read about about how the media prioritises these events.

Please dont take this out of context and turn my words into "OH HE HATES AMERICA, WHO CARES ABOUT 9/11 BLAH BLAH BLAH SOCIAL ENGINEERING ZIONIST" because your missing the point.

RIP. All innocent lives lost, under any circumastance, at anytime in history, for what ever reason.

tlrd; what makes 9/11 so special when there have been countless of acts, hundreds of times worse than what happened on 9/11.

On September 12 2011 01:05 Marais wrote:
The chilean 9/11 is much more important than the american one for some people (mostly chileans). But looks like it cant even be discussed becose of the american superiority complex.

On September 12 2011 01:05 Marais wrote:
The chilean 9/11 is much more important than the american one for some people (mostly chileans). But looks like it cant even be discussed becose of the american superiority complex.

On September 12 2011 01:05 Marais wrote:
The chilean 9/11 is much more important than the american one for some people (mostly chileans). But looks like it cant even be discussed becose of the american superiority complex.

Plz keep coming with stuff like this. People need to know more about the crap that western countries have done since WW2. Right after WW2 the US was so insanely powerful they could basically do whatever they wanted so they did. Remember MCcarthy remember truman. It's the way the world works. It is surprising that the only crap the US got back are the bombing of the embassies in Nairobi and Dar Es Salaam and 9/11. Things in South America could have turned out a lot worse for the US. I would not find it surprising at all if there were radical left wing terrorist groups rooted in South America targeting US citizens/embassies but it seems there aren't and most South American governments function relatively well compared to the way they did in the 70's and 80's.
A little list
Cuba - x
Guatemala - x
Nicaragua - x
Panama
Colombia - x
Chile - x
Argentina - x
And that's just south America

Iraq - x
Iran - x
Afghanistan - x
Pakistan - y
Saudi Arabia*
Cambodia - x
Vietnam - x

The list of countries the US military/CIA messed with big time is pretty much endless. I don't know much about Africa but I bet its ugly. I am not even mentioning the list of dictators/authoritarian regimes that were allowed to rule their country without the west uttering any word of protest to their conduct. It is critical to understand the extent of american foreign operations ( covert and not covert, military and financial ) and the unrivalled power they had trough the 50's,60's,70's, 80's and 90's to understand 9/11 and put it in perspective.

On September 12 2011 01:08 ch33psh33p wrote:


This. Hurts me so much to see people try to put down the OP.

Disgusting.

On September 12 2011 01:12 BlackJack wrote:


Has nothing to do with superiority complex. After the Japanese tsunami some Americans tried to "honor" the lives lost at Pearl Harbor. Other Americans shouted down those people, too.

On September 12 2011 01:12 BlackJack wrote:


Has nothing to do with superiority complex. After the Japanese tsunami some Americans tried to "honor" the lives lost at Pearl Harbor. Other Americans shouted down those people, too.

On September 12 2011 01:12 BlackJack wrote:


Has nothing to do with superiority complex. After the Japanese tsunami some Americans tried to "honor" the lives lost at Pearl Harbor. Other Americans shouted down those people, too.

On September 12 2011 01:15 DeepElemBlues wrote:


Countries where US involvement was response to Soviet involvement are marked with an X.

Pakistan is marked with a Y because the US and Pakistan had good relations until the USSR was gone and jihadis moved on to their next target, which was already picked as the US.

Saudi Arabia has an asterisk because Saudis either liked or didn't care one way or the other about the Saudi-US relationship until Osama bin Laden got his panties twisted about us (and not him) saving the country from Saddam Hussein in 1991.

But let's look at what countries were "messed with" by the other side:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Argentina
Armenia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Bulgaria
Cambodia
Chile
China
Colombia
Congo
Cuba
Czech Republic and Slovakia
Egypt
Finland
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Grenada
Guatemala
Hungary
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Italy
Japan
Kazakhstan
Korea
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Moldova
Mongolia
Montenegro
Nicaragua
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Syria
Turkey
Ukraine
Uzbekistan
Vietnam



Pure fantasy thinking. Literally every sentence contains at least one inaccuracy, some of them very egregious.

On September 12 2011 01:16 imallinson wrote:


That was really different. The people saying stuff after the Japanese tsunami were saying that it was payback for Pearl Harbour, saying the people deserved to die (also happened after Japan beat the US in the women's football world cup). No one in this thread is saying the people in the WTC deserved to die.

On September 12 2011 01:15 HeavenS wrote:
look i respect what happened. but it seems like ur using the fact that theres a thread alrdy on sep 11 2001 and making a parallel thread on this issue to state ur anti us sentiment. i dont think its appropriate and i think ur a troll. it happened in 1973, u could post this on any other day but decide to do it today and use the sept 11 date as an excuse. ur a troll. and im colombian. i know about this, ur still trolling and its obvious. but w.e, it shows how understanding mods are sometimes considering they left this open for u and u only have 7 posts.

This. Hurts me so much to see people try to put down the OP.

Disgusting.

The chilean 9/11 is much more important than the american one for some people (mostly chileans). But looks like it cant even be discussed becose of the american superiority complex.

Oh well, that's quite logical, considering that the CIA heavily supported Pinochet and helped a lot the coup. Nobody wants to be reminded that they have been the bad one, especially when nothing has changed.

September 11, a thought for the innocent victims of the WTC. And a thought for the victims of the Shouth-American dictatorships America supported for thirty years in their anti-communist paranoiac and imperialist ideology. They deserve to be honored equally.

On September 12 2011 01:21 sekritzzz wrote:

So you are advising him to make a post remembering September the 11th, on say..... July the 27th? Then you criticize his post history when he actually joined months ago. He has a right to lurk, you know.

On September 12 2011 01:20 BlackJack wrote:


Some of them were saying those things and some of them weren't. But they were all completely classless.

On September 12 2011 01:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:


I think it's pretty disgusting from all sides, Allende wasn't some democratic innocent poor man.



It can't be discussed because "American superiority complex" = "pointing out that there were two sides." Anything other than blanket, mindless condemnation of America = "American superiority complex."



I know, it makes people pretty mad to be reminded that Allende was two-stepping towards a violent dictatorship of the proletariat.



I prefer American "imperialism" to Soviet imperialism, oddly enough so do most of the people who experienced the latter... it's kind of weird how it's mostly only people who benefited from American "imperialism" who complain about it.

On September 12 2011 01:31 Holophonist wrote:
I hate this thread. It's not an "american superiority complex" that causes people to disagree with this thread. It's the fact that the OP clearly has an agenda. Why else would he point out the "US involvement"? You have to know what you're getting into when posting a thread like this on a day like today, and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the whole point.

Also, 9/11 is a sad day in AMERICAN history. If TL has a Chilean-based forum, post this there. Let me put it this way... would I go to Chile and tell people to mourn for our 9/11? No, I wouldn't. THAT'S the difference.

On September 12 2011 01:31 Holophonist wrote:
I hate this thread. It's not an "american superiority complex" that causes people to disagree with this thread. It's the fact that the OP clearly has an agenda. Why else would he point out the "US involvement"? You have to know what you're getting into when posting a thread like this on a day like today, and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the whole point.

Also, 9/11 is a sad day in AMERICAN history. If TL has a Chilean-based forum, post this there. Let me put it this way... would I go to Chile and tell people to mourn for our 9/11? No, I wouldn't. THAT'S the difference.

On September 12 2011 01:26 imallinson wrote:


I know it was a vocal minority saying this. My point is it is a stupid comparison to make in the first place.

On September 12 2011 01:31 Holophonist wrote:
I hate this thread. It's not an "american superiority complex" that causes people to disagree with this thread. It's the fact that the OP clearly has an agenda. Why else would he point out the "US involvement"? You have to know what you're getting into when posting a thread like this on a day like today, and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the whole point.

Also, 9/11 is a sad day in AMERICAN history. If TL has a Chilean-based forum, post this there. Let me put it this way... would I go to Chile and tell people to mourn for our 9/11? No, I wouldn't. THAT'S the difference.

On September 12 2011 01:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Believe me, Argentinian didn't have a good time under Videla. I bet they didn't have a better time than Romanians under Ceausescu. Your imperialism has been just as shameful, devastating, disgusting and immoral than the Soviet one.

Now, people who say "Oh we did horribly wrong, but some other people did horrible things too so let's not recognize it, let's not apologize and let's not admit anything at all" have suspicious moral values. If you justification for America's crimes is that Soviet Russia was wrong, I'm sorry to tell you that you won't go far. There will always be someone worse (and I don't think Soviet Russia was even worse in terms of international policy).

But yeah, the good Americans vs evil x. Black and white. God save us. All that stuff.

On September 12 2011 01:31 KentHenry wrote:
I'm glad Pinochet overthrew the political leaders of a country heading in the direction of communism. Many people may dislike Pinochet and call him a mass murderer, but he really did bring back democracy to Chile in a time of need; but not in a civil way, which sometimes being civil gets you nowhere.

On September 12 2011 01:34 BlackJack wrote:


My point wasn't that it was a vocal minority. My point was that not everyone was so forward in saying "Japan deserved this." Some people were simply saying "let's commemorate those that died on Pearl Harbor." Then you realize that is also a passive-agressive douchebag thing to say even though there is nothing inherently wrong with the sentence "let's commemorate those that died on Pearl Harbor"

Believe me, Argentinian didn't have a good time under Videla. I bet they didn't have a better time than Romanians under Ceausescu. Your imperialism has been just as shameful, devastating, disgusting and immoral than the Soviet one.

Now, people who say "Oh we did horribly wrong, but some other people did horrible things too so let's not recognize it, let's not apologize and let's not admit anything at all" have suspicious moral values. If you justification for America's crimes is that Soviet Russia was wrong, I'm sorry to tell you that you won't go far. There will always be someone worse (and I don't think Soviet Russia was even worse in terms of international policy).

But yeah, the good american. Black and white. All that stuff.

Also whoever thinks that Pakistan is not fucked up because of US involvement doesn't know Pakistani history.

There is a reason why Pakistanis hate american foreign policy. Its not because we hate your freedom btw.

On September 12 2011 01:36 drag_ wrote:

Calm down man, between you French and us Brits I think we've caused a lot more damage mankind than the Americans. And just like we don't like to be constantly reminded from everywhere that we committed all these atrocities, neither do American people all the time, epsecially on this day, so just chill out.

On September 12 2011 01:34 BlackJack wrote:


My point wasn't that it was a vocal minority. My point was that not everyone was so forward in saying "Japan deserved this." Some people were simply saying "let's commemorate those that died on Pearl Harbor." Then you realize that is also a passive-agressive douchebag thing to say even though there is nothing inherently wrong with the sentence "let's commemorate those that died on Pearl Harbor"

On September 12 2011 01:31 Holophonist wrote:
I hate this thread. It's not an "american superiority complex" that causes people to disagree with this thread. It's the fact that the OP clearly has an agenda. Why else would he point out the "US involvement"? You have to know what you're getting into when posting a thread like this on a day like today, and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the whole point.

Also, 9/11 is a sad day in AMERICAN history. If TL has a Chilean-based forum, post this there. Let me put it this way... would I go to Chile and tell people to mourn for our 9/11? No, I wouldn't. THAT'S the difference.

On September 12 2011 01:39 imallinson wrote:


OK point taken, but I'm missing how the Pearl Harbour comparison is relevant.

On September 12 2011 01:42 muse5187 wrote:

Saying "Let's commemorate those that died on Pearl Harbor", right after the tsunami was a thinly veiled way of saying that they are happy the tsunami happened because of what the japanese did at pearl harbor. It's overt douchebaggery.

On September 12 2011 01:31 KentHenry wrote:
I'm glad Pinochet overthrew the political leaders of a country heading in the direction of communism. Many people may dislike Pinochet and call him a mass murderer, but he really did bring back democracy to Chile in a time of need; but not in a civil way, which sometimes being civil gets you nowhere.

On September 12 2011 01:47 Holophonist wrote:
I never said TL is an american-based forum. But clearly the vast majority of people on this forum are at least english-speaking and it makes a WTC 9/11 post far more appropriate than a Chilean-based one. No? Anybody care to argue the ratio of Americans to Chileans on TL? or are you done with strawman arguments?

But when I see people like DeepemBlue who justify, refuse to recognize the crimes that his country committed only 30 years ago (and never apologized for) because of some ideological blindness and typical manicheism, I find it really problematic.

On September 12 2011 01:46 redviper wrote:


Bravo. I am really glad that you are speaking your mind about this. It lets everyone know what kind of a person you are.

Sad fact is that you aren't the only one who feels this to be true. I'd say 50% of the americans who know about the war crimes will probably feel the same way. Unfortunately 90% of these 50% are political leaders, intelligence agents, military officers - basically your ruling elite.

Also I am impressed by the level of doucheness displayed by people who are arguing over the number of casualties of Pinochet. Does the fact that ONLY 3000 people dying at his hands making him less of a monster? Does it matter that less people died in Chile than in WTC? Do you see people arguing over the casualty figures from WTC? Unfuckingbelievable.

On September 12 2011 01:40 DeepElemBlues wrote:


No matter how hard you try to make the two equivalent, the Communist system was far more shameful, devastating, disgusting, and immoral.



I don't recall any Americans saying we shouldn't recognize where we made mistakes or did things from the start that were wrong.

The problem is that people like you present a double standard and demand that the US admit that it was actually worse (which is total nonsense) and anyone who objects is immediately subjected to your bad relativistic and childish arguments ("Saying someone else did it too doesn't make it right!" Is this fourth grade? We're talking about nations not people, the world is a little more complex).

I would never say the USSR was brutal and evil just because of the revenge they took on Germany in 1945, the Germans attacked them and were brutal and evil towards them first and were literally trying to wipe them out.

And consequently I'm not going to condemn the US for "propping up" right-wing dictatorships instead of allowing left-wing dictatorships to be propped up by the Soviet Union.

It wasn't the US that lied at the end of WWII and occupied half of Europe, it wasn't the US that poured money and agents into Greece and Turkey first, it wasn't the US that caused Kim il Sung to invade South Korea in 1950, it wasn't the US that blockaded West Berlin in 1948, it wasn't the US that shelled Quemoy and Matsu, and it wasn't the US that killed ~100,000,000 people through deliberate starvation, mass shootings, labor to death in gulags, beatings from a Red Guard mob, etc.

Bolded part essentially strips you of all credibility to speak on the subject.

I'm sorry the blood-soaked animals you like so much lost and aren't able to kill tens of millions of people anymore. That's how I feel about your minimization of Communist atrocities and exaggeration of "American" ones.



You're talking about yourself, you realize that right? The good Communist. Black and white. All that stuff.

On September 12 2011 01:42 muse5187 wrote:

Saying "Let's commemorate those that died on Pearl Harbor", right after the tsunami was a thinly veiled way of saying that they are happy the tsunami happened because of what the japanese did at pearl harbor. It's overt douchebaggery.

On September 12 2011 01:44 dogabutila wrote:
What the hell is a 38th year anniversary? Do you do this every year or just on years corresponding to 10th (20th, 25th...) anniversary for 9/11. I don't know anybody that does things for a 38th year anni, and doesn't do it every year.

I DO know a lot of people who do special things for dates like multiples of 5 or 10.



Fuck off with your agenda. Pretend to be as self righteous as you want with your bullshit "oh noes I didn't mean to do anything" but we arn't buying it. So lastly, fuck you OP.

On September 12 2011 01:47 Bleak wrote:
You might aswell check the September 12 Turkish Coup d'etat aswell. The numbers are pretty much similar, 600.000 people detained, tortured in inhumane ways, a lot of people have disappeared and died.

EDIT: The demon who caused these events also justified it by "protecting the country against communism threat". It's all about US and how to kiss their ass, no matter what you do to your people. There were people who've gone mad due to the treatment they've got from the jailers, some committed suicide because they couldn't take it anymore. And who do you blame? Communism. Fucking brilliant.

It's anniversary is tomorrow. A dark, dark spot in our history.

On September 12 2011 01:46 redviper wrote:


Bravo. I am really glad that you are speaking your mind about this. It lets everyone know what kind of a person you are.

Sad fact is that you aren't the only one who feels this to be true. I'd say 50% of the americans who know about the war crimes will probably feel the same way. Unfortunately 90% of these 50% are political leaders, intelligence agents, military officers - basically your ruling elite.

Also I am impressed by the level of doucheness displayed by people who are arguing over the number of casualties of Pinochet. Does the fact that ONLY 3000 people dying at his hands making him less of a monster? Does it matter that less people died in Chile than in WTC? Do you see people arguing over the casualty figures from WTC? Unfuckingbelievable.

On September 12 2011 01:53 BlackJack wrote:


Sorry but that coup isn't at a convenient date for someone trying to make a point so it will be ignored.

On September 12 2011 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Look, my mother had to flee Argentina because of the fascist dictatorship your country installed and supported.

It had nothing to do with Soviets. Chile had nothing to do with Soviet either. It had to do with a democratic left wing government which was bad for the american companies that exploited Chile at that time. Period.

When you guys can recognize your mistakes, and your crimes, you will be a much greater country. I don't have a shame to look at what France did in Algeria and admit it was monstrous. And I won't try to find excuses about the "other side" or whatever.

Now if we take your second list and apply to same criteria to the first one, it's basically the whole world.

On September 12 2011 01:54 muse5187 wrote:


Population of USA as of census 2011 307,006,550.

307,006,550 / 2 = 153,503,275 ( Number of people you covered with your first blanket statement)
153,503,275 * 0.90 = 135,152,948 ( Number of "ruling elite")

Good numbers you got there. Why don't you use a bigger blanket statement.

On September 12 2011 01:47 Holophonist wrote:
I never said TL is an american-based forum. But clearly the vast majority of people on this forum are at least english-speaking and it makes a WTC 9/11 post far more appropriate than a Chilean-based one. No? Anybody care to argue the ratio of Americans to Chileans on TL? or are you done with strawman arguments?

Also, 9/11 is a sad day in AMERICAN history. If TL has a Chilean-based forum, post this there. Let me put it this way... would I go to Chile and tell people to mourn for our 9/11? No, I wouldn't. THAT'S the difference.

But clearly the vast majority of people on this forum are at least english-speaking and it makes a WTC 9/11 post far more appropriate than a Chilean-based one. No? Anybody care to argue the ratio of Americans to Chileans on TL?

Man. Either we know what we talk about, either we stop this discussion.

When has Argentina being under the threat of a Soviet style dictatorship? Never. They didn't even have a left wing government when the military took the power. They were some risks, because that's what people wanted, and so the "land of the free" (and of hypocrisy) helped the far right generals to take the power and to keep it. That was preventive.

Now, Allende was democratically elected and never wanted to imitate the Leninist dictatorships. Just that you know.

If your parents had had to flee a country because young "leftists" or alleged "leftists" were threatened at any moment to be arbitrarily tortured and thrown alive from helicopter to the sea because they were "subversive", and that they left behind them friends or family who disappeared and got killed, all of that with the full support and help of an other country, and that you saw some clueless guy from that country saying that it was not that bad and it was justified, you know how you would feel?

Ps: oh, and by the way:
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/04/10/kissingers-1976-cable-reopens-controversy-over-operation-condo/
http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2010-04-12.asp (that can help too)

Look, my mother had to flee Argentina because of the fascist dictatorship your country installed and supported.

On September 12 2011 01:59 GoTuNk! wrote:


I'm sorry but saying there was nothing to do with soviet union and/or that the country was not in terrible shape its not true.

1- Situation was terrible before he came to power: 35% inflation in 1970.

2- He was democratically elected and never manifested any intention or sign to keep the power or abolish democracy.

On September 12 2011 02:03 DeepElemBlues wrote:


Are you really going to go that way.



You mean Chile, and what you're saying is inaccurate.



Not only inaccurate, but dishonest. Allende was moving in an authoritarian direction, not surprising behavior for South/Latin American leaders regardless of their being "left" or "right." Saying he didn't want imitate Leninist dictatorship doesn't mean he didn't want to imitate dictatorship in general.

No I don't think he was moving toward a full-on one-party Communist state, but an authoritarian government of the type Venezuela has today? Yes.



"The full support and help of an other country" is just your fantasy land.

I am seeing some clueless guy saying some of the most horrible things people have ever done to one another weren't that bad, and you're right, it makes me want to puke that you'd say "Soviet[s] not that bad" while bitching about the US.

If your parents had fled the USSR - oh wait, that was almost impossible - and everyone they knew who stayed behind had starved to death thanks to the State stealing all their grain or shooting them when they resisted their grain being stolen, would you feel the way you do now about who was wrong and who was right? Of course not.



So you're posting stuff about 3 years after the coup, when I already said that the real US crime was supporting Pinochet after the coup?



You mean the fascist dictatorship in Argentina that had been around since 1945? America installed that?

Where do you get your "facts" from, back issues of Pravda? Honestly.

On September 12 2011 02:05 Holophonist wrote:
This is getting ridiculous. There are a million events that happened on September 11th throughout history. Why pick this one if NOT to try and throw it in the US's face? You guys are absolutely blind.