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Active: 677 users

[D] Neutral supply depot no longer necessity

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
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highsis
Profile Joined August 2011
259 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-31 17:36:08
August 31 2011 13:06 GMT
#1

http://www.playxp.com/sc2/tip/view.php?article_id=3350319

A Korean Protoss pro MilkyWay has just released a method to completely stop apylon/bunker wall in at the opponent's ramp between the base and the natural.

I personally believe that artificial controls over game plays must be minimized, so I'm creating a new thread to inform this tip, encouraging foreign tourneys that use neutral supply depot to prevent wall in rush to remove those depots from the map, since the particular play can be overcome with the tip Milkyway provided.

The tip is very simple. When your ramp is blocked by your opponent, you first gather your workers near by the ramp. Then you should click on a mineral patch in your natural. The workers will stack right in front of the wall. Modedit: You must have vision of the mineral patch in order for your workers to stay stacked, if not you'll have to spam right click on the patch to keep em stacked, or they'll fan out. You should A-click the wall, which will instantly cause your slack to go loose. You should quickly re-click the mineral patch, and keep doing this until the wall is broken.

According to Milkyway, this method will deal a damage of 50~60(depending on your neat execution and worker counts) per attack and you will most likely break through the wall when the first cannon is about 50% done. You should force cancel the cannon/ other bunkers under construction using your workers.

Milkyway added in comments that Protoss will virtually have 0% winrate if their cannon rush fails this way, since Zerg would suffer almost 0 damage(little mining time), while Protoss would lose 3 pylons and a few cannons. He even recommends Zerg players to induce Protoss to do cannon rush if the zerg player is confident with his execution of this Wall Breaker method. He asserts that this will 100% prevent/stop cannon and bunker walling in rush, if executed properly by the defender. He also said that Zergs should always take expansions first to maximize the advantage.

I never liked foreign tourneys preventing wall in type rushes by artificial means because you actually can prevent it with pure micro skills such as by putting your worker on patrol and using your workers to repel your opponent's probes/scvs/marines. It just required some attention and fair micro.

Anyways, since the hard counter has been released, I hope we do not see neutral supply depots to prevent wall ins on foreign tourney maps anymore.

This is my first thread, so I hope I didn't mess up anything big. Rejoice, Zerg players.

Milkyway's original post was blinded because angry Protoss mobs thumbed down this tip(it was more like prank thumb downs because Protoss is doing so poorly in Korea. With today's result, Protoss's winrate in current GSL dropped to 31%. I'm mentioning this to explain why Milkyway's great thread was blinded, so please stay refrained from off topic balance posts.)









Edit: I am not the original finder of this method, so feel free to post this method in any other boards you see fit as the mod suggested. I, as a newb to TL, am not really familiar with the purpose of each board. I also edited out a word "close" from the description of which mineral patch you have to click. Thanks for pointing it out for me!



windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 31 2011 13:24 GMT
#2
Wow this is great, I never liked the idea of the neutral supply depots. I´ll have to try this and see if it works well
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Passionless
Profile Joined August 2011
United States18 Posts
August 31 2011 13:25 GMT
#3
Strategy? In MY real time strategy game? It's more likely than you think.
Nice find, I love it.
Oriatis
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Austria57 Posts
August 31 2011 13:27 GMT
#4
awesome find! thanks for posting this! one of my practice partners always complains about cannon rushing, this'll help him a ton!
green2000
Profile Joined October 2009
Peru79 Posts
August 31 2011 13:53 GMT
#5
There is some video or replay to watch this?
Fenix all the way!
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
August 31 2011 14:09 GMT
#6
Move this to SC2 General for more awareness possibly? pretty cool thing.
Floydian
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United Kingdom374 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-31 14:10:49
August 31 2011 14:10 GMT
#7
On August 31 2011 23:09 Complete wrote:
Move this to SC2 General for more awareness possibly? pretty cool thing.


Seconded. While I can sort of see why this was posted here, if this trick actually works this could be pretty significant. Not many people will see this thread here.
lurked
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada918 Posts
August 31 2011 14:36 GMT
#8
Quite interesting find indeed...

Even though I'm protoss(I never walled+cannon rushed anyway), I think it's an important trick for everyone to know, as it can help in quite a few situations.
Magic is "just" magic until I get my hands on the source code.
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-31 14:59:26
August 31 2011 14:58 GMT
#9
I want to see this in action before I agree with it... if no videos are posted by the time I get home from work, I'll see about making one.

If it does turn out to be realistically useful, I see it affecting cannon rushes a lot more than bunker rushes though.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 03:45:04
August 31 2011 14:59 GMT
#10
--- Nuked ---
NemesysTV
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1088 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-31 15:08:37
August 31 2011 15:00 GMT
#11


Still rendering but it shows that if u use the closest mineral patch they just go up and try to get down from the high ground however if u use the farthest away then they stack and you have to quickly do it.

Edit: Higher quality video
Zorgaz
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2951 Posts
August 31 2011 15:15 GMT
#12
Ye that seems really cool. And it seems from the video that it's not too easy to do.

I guess if you train on it enough it will be easier though.
Furthermore, I think the Collosi should be removed! (Zorgaz -Terran/AbrA-Random/Zorg-Dota2) Guineapigs <3
Yekke
Profile Joined February 2011
16 Posts
August 31 2011 15:26 GMT
#13
You can shift click the mineral patch 3-4 times, makes it much easier.
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
August 31 2011 15:31 GMT
#14
Yeah, just looked at the video, I think you could even do it faster and easier than he does in the example.

Definitely worthwhile.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38256 Posts
August 31 2011 15:33 GMT
#15
Excellent find, this should really get duplicate posted in SC2 strategy for discussion on effective usage and implications (if this one is being left here for the neutral depot point and future map development)
CmdrDashy
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia62 Posts
August 31 2011 15:40 GMT
#16
Seems really interesting. The use of the neutral depo always did seem kind of counter intuitive in my eyes. There is also the call from a lot of players to allow these things to be worked out and this is a great example of that.

I hadn't heard of Milkyway either, great work by him! I wonder how you would discover something like this? I imagine it is through brainstorming and hard work testing it.
stolenpanda
Profile Joined November 2010
22 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-31 15:44:48
August 31 2011 15:44 GMT
#17
On September 01 2011 00:26 Yekke wrote:
You can shift click the mineral patch 3-4 times, makes it much easier.


I just tried this in a custom and it works wonders. Click a mineral patch, shift click it two more times, then right click the pylon. Using this method I was able to break the contain 3x faster than a simple right click on the pylon.
"Apologize for playing that race." - IdrA
Polarexia
Profile Joined November 2010
United States383 Posts
August 31 2011 15:45 GMT
#18
Always love seeing more depth added to the game. Nice find
Cofo
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1388 Posts
August 31 2011 15:52 GMT
#19
I like it. Hopefully it won't be patched.
+ Show Spoiler +
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
August 31 2011 15:56 GMT
#20
Wow, even though starcraft 2 is still somewhat new, I am surprised that milkyway found out something as fundamental as that. Hopefully, the neutral supplydepots will be a relic of the past then, I never liked those either. ^^
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