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[D] Neutral supply depot no longer necessity - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Hikari
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
1914 Posts
September 01 2011 23:10 GMT
#141
hmmm... do we really need 2 threads for this? =/
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261179
Dragom
Profile Joined December 2010
194 Posts
September 02 2011 01:50 GMT
#142
On September 01 2011 00:44 stolenpanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2011 00:26 Yekke wrote:
You can shift click the mineral patch 3-4 times, makes it much easier.


I just tried this in a custom and it works wonders. Click a mineral patch, shift click it two more times, then right click the pylon. Using this method I was able to break the contain 3x faster than a simple right click on the pylon.


wait you mean right click on a mineral right?
"The second thing to go is your memory...ergh, I can't remember what the first thing is..."
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 03:06:19
September 02 2011 03:06 GMT
#143
On September 02 2011 07:28 Mairou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 05:52 Jermstuddog wrote:
On September 02 2011 04:13 Mairou wrote:
On September 02 2011 03:45 Jermstuddog wrote:
On September 02 2011 03:37 Mairou wrote:
This works, i was able to break 3 pylon block with 15 workers in less than 20 in game seconds



Its still too slow unfortunately.

Cool trick, but not applicable to real games.


Are you serious ? You can easily stop 3 pylon cannon contain with this...


No... you can't...

You can turn a 3 pylon wall into a 5 pylon wall and still not kill the cannon before it finishes and leave yourself with no money left over to make zerglings.

The only requirement from Protoss is an attentive probe.


Its not easy to rewall 3pylon block. After your first pylon dies you need 3 pylons to wall if off again, but at that time your hatchery is probably already finished so protoss cant even build anything.


assuming you put your cannon in a non-terrible place, it just joins the wall.

you only need 2 pylons.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
September 02 2011 04:55 GMT
#144
Anyone curious should note that in destiny's execution of it, he killed the first pylon in 10-15 seconds and the backup pylon in another 5~ seconds. He also caught it after the pylons already finished.

Still not confident that this will affect 2 rax double bunker walling very well, but at least people won't have as much trouble with these walls against protoss.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
emecee
Profile Joined September 2010
United States222 Posts
September 02 2011 05:58 GMT
#145
On September 02 2011 03:45 Jermstuddog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 03:37 Mairou wrote:
This works, i was able to break 3 pylon block with 15 workers in less than 20 in game seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWpzukaVzcQ


Its still too slow unfortunately.

Cool trick, but not applicable to real games.

yeah you're right
Goliath0nline
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada165 Posts
September 02 2011 06:19 GMT
#146
NO MORE AUTO LOSE, HURRAY!
TheAmazombie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States3714 Posts
September 02 2011 07:27 GMT
#147
This is a good find. I dig it. I never liked the blocking of this strat to begin with even though it is crap.
We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin
ejac
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1195 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 07:50:01
September 02 2011 07:47 GMT
#148
nm
esq>n
Larsin
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands162 Posts
September 02 2011 08:54 GMT
#149
Did anyone send this to Idra yet? i would love a pylon wall by mc again get broken by this.

btw bad timing to make this public, patch incoming soon. easy to fix now
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 09:51:41
September 02 2011 09:48 GMT
#150
On September 02 2011 17:54 Larsin wrote:
Did anyone send this to Idra yet? i would love a pylon wall by mc again get broken by this.

btw bad timing to make this public, patch incoming soon. easy to fix now



I don't think they will "fix it". hatch first isn't broken vs P in the first place, it was just unplayable until now...
also other forms of canonrushes are still viable vs hatch first

about the neutral depots: they are not only to prevent those rushes, but also to prevent terrans from walling ramps on the bottome AND walling zerg ramps...
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 12:36:11
September 02 2011 12:23 GMT
#151
On September 02 2011 03:37 Mairou wrote:
This works, i was able to break 3 pylon block with 15 workers in less than 20 in game seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWpzukaVzcQ


Wow Nice way to show this isn't actually how it works for Zergs remember in the patch how they are buffing the Zerg Drone Worker attack to hit more often like the Scv and probes.

You are showing a bad example of how this actually works. The Drone Attacks don't always hit their mark unlike the Probes/Scv's Attacks.

We will have to see how the drone attack improves in patch 1.4 but showing the probes breaking a wall is a bad example... Since protoss getting walled in really doesn't happen alot.
Never GG MKP | IdrA
TheLOLas
Profile Joined May 2011
United States646 Posts
September 02 2011 12:30 GMT
#152
While i appreciate the effectiveness of this I would have to mention that This still disadvantages a race and that neutral supply depots may still be needed.
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
September 02 2011 12:35 GMT
#153
On September 02 2011 21:30 TheLOLas wrote:
While i appreciate the effectiveness of this I would have to mention that This still disadvantages a race and that neutral supply depots may still be needed.


Exactly i despise that that all the Protoss and Terran are coming in here harping that this means we can remove the Neutral Supply Depot from all maps now.

They are just salivating at the thought of it....
Never GG MKP | IdrA
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
September 02 2011 12:45 GMT
#154
Thats a pretty awesome find. I dont think it will change the supply depots though.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 13:07:34
September 02 2011 13:04 GMT
#155
On September 02 2011 18:48 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 17:54 Larsin wrote:
Did anyone send this to Idra yet? i would love a pylon wall by mc again get broken by this.

btw bad timing to make this public, patch incoming soon. easy to fix now



I don't think they will "fix it". hatch first isn't broken vs P in the first place, it was just unplayable until now...
also other forms of canonrushes are still viable vs hatch first

about the neutral depots: they are not only to prevent those rushes, but also to prevent terrans from walling ramps on the bottome AND walling zerg ramps...


Neutral depots were addded to stop lame pylon and bunker blocks that basically won the game when they got up. With this technique those cheeses will be obsolete. Terran being able to quickly wall below their ramp was a luxury that was forfeited by tournaments because fixing the insta-lame-loss was more important. It was an inevitability that came with fixing the problem, not a feature of neutral supply depots.

Now the problem has been solved naturally, there's no more reason to maintain ugly neutral structures. They were put in to prevent OP antic-climactic cheese, not to give Zerg a scouting buff.
I think esports is pretty nice.
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
September 02 2011 14:01 GMT
#156
I thought it was to stop bunker rushes, which still has the marine to kill a worker or two while you do this. Unless terran has brought all their scvs, they should still come out ahead.

Protoss is fine though because its 3 pylons, and they cant kill any workers because the canon is still building.
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
September 02 2011 14:17 GMT
#157
People find 15 scv stacking trick for 2 rax marine/scv allin - "god this is awful, hope it gets Nerfed, Patched, Removed, Trololo!!!"

People find 15 drone stacking trick - " this is amazing, hope it never gets patched! Much needed zerg buff! Awesome find!!"

It's amazing really.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 16:00:19
September 02 2011 16:00 GMT
#158
On September 02 2011 22:04 Saechiis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 18:48 Big J wrote:
On September 02 2011 17:54 Larsin wrote:
Did anyone send this to Idra yet? i would love a pylon wall by mc again get broken by this.

btw bad timing to make this public, patch incoming soon. easy to fix now

I don't think they will "fix it". hatch first isn't broken vs P in the first place, it was just unplayable until now...
also other forms of canonrushes are still viable vs hatch first

about the neutral depots: they are not only to prevent those rushes, but also to prevent terrans from walling ramps on the bottom AND walling zerg ramps...


Neutral depots were addded to stop lame pylon and bunker blocks that basically won the game when they got up. With this technique those cheeses will be obsolete. Terran being able to quickly wall below their ramp was a luxury that was forfeited by tournaments because fixing the insta-lame-loss was more important. It was an inevitability that came with fixing the problem, not a feature of neutral supply depots.

Now the problem has been solved naturally, there's no more reason to maintain ugly neutral structures. They were put in to prevent OP antic-climactic cheese, not to give Zerg a scouting buff.




Neutral supply depots prevent bunker,pylon blocks as well as terran lowground walls.
If they are not intended that way, they are badly designed, because the editor would surely give you the options to make them only prevent walling enemy base, not your own.

Also I disagree that "ugly neutral structures" should be removed if not needed. Pretty much every map would be playable without XNWT (a neutral structure btw), but they simply add extra gameplay features.
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
September 02 2011 17:50 GMT
#159
On September 02 2011 23:17 Sadistx wrote:
People find 15 scv stacking trick for 2 rax marine/scv allin - "god this is awful, hope it gets Nerfed, Patched, Removed, Trololo!!!"

People find 15 drone stacking trick - " this is amazing, hope it never gets patched! Much needed zerg buff! Awesome find!!"

It's amazing really.


You're staying purposefully oblivious to the fact that the "this is amazing" part comes from the fact that zergs now have a chance to live past the 5 minute mark.

You're trying to compare it to a bullshit strat that ends games with minimal risk.


Gratz on being an idiot.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Stropheum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1124 Posts
September 02 2011 18:05 GMT
#160
Also, just curious. Why is this in the custom maps forum?
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