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California Raids Rawesome Food

Forum Index > General Forum
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shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-07 01:32:40
August 06 2011 05:29 GMT
#1
I'm actually sort of surprised this hasn't come up in teamliquid at all, or at least I haven't been able to find a thread about this. In California, a private club that focuses on selling organic food and milk was raided by law enforcement. The owner was arrested and put into an unmarked car. He was allegedly not read his rights. His bail has been set at $123,000.

The charge is that they were in possession of illegal raw cow and goat milk The FDA, CDC, and LAPD were involved in the raid. After arresting the owner, they proceeded to destroy all product within the store.

http://www.naturalnews.com/033220_Rawesome_Foods_armed_raids.html









I would like to open several things up for discussion here. Number one, why is there almost no national media coverage? Local California news is covering this story like no one's business, but you can find maybe one article on CNN covering this story. Half the article talks about how dangerous organic milk is. Just head right on over to the health and fitness initiative to find out who's right about that. Here's the article:

http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2010/07/26/cheese-seized-public-health-department-raids-raw-dairy-vendor/

Number two: We've remained quiet about the war on drugs, but now we have a war on organic food? Just how far does the government plan on going with telling us what we can and cannot have in our systems? They might have an argument that you are a danger to others when on drugs, but what possible danger can you have to others for eating and drinking organic? Why is the government now telling us what we can and cannot eat/drink?

It's my opinion here that this raid was absurd, and so is California law. How dare the government try and tell us what is healthy, when they created the joke that is known as the food pyramid. And whether or not you think raw milk is unsafe, what right do they have to regulate what I choose to drink. It's not even a drug!

As always, please keep the conversation civil. If you disagree with my opinion, feel free to post a counterargument that will persuade me.

edit: It is not up for debate whether or not what this guy did was illegal. According to Cali law it is illegal. The debate I want to start here is whether or not this is a good law.

UPDATE:

I think it relevant to now include some information about the dangers of raw milk. It can contain communicable diseases, and these do not only affect the person drinking the raw milk, but also others. This is why it is can be a public health hazard to sell milk that does not pass regulation.

An increasing number of health-conscious consumers are seeking natural, unprocessed foods, including fresh, locally grown produce, eggs, poultry, and meats. Concomitant with this consumer interest, the US Department of Agriculture created Know Your Farmer, Know Your Food and the Farmers Market Promotion Program [1, 2]. These governmental programs seek to improve nutritional choices made by Americans with the goal to reduce the incidence of obesity, diabetes mellitus, and other chronic illnesses [3]. However, in the midst of trends toward choosing less processed foods is a growing consumer demand for raw (unpasteurized) dairy products. Advocates promote raw milk for its better taste and purported health benefits and as a way for consumers to support small dairies and local agriculture. At the same time, the public health community speaks in a nearly unanimous voice to warn consumers, farmers, and retail stores that sell the products about the significant health risks associated with raw milk consumption.

These risks are well documented and include numerous foodborne disease outbreaks and illnesses linked to consumption of contaminated raw milk or products made from raw milk [4, 5]. LeJeune and Rajala-Schultz [4] reviewed the hazards associated with raw milk consumption and pointed out that in the 21st century dairy products are responsible for <1% of reported foodborne disease outbreaks in the United States. In contrast, milkborne outbreaks comprised 25% of all disease outbreaks due to contaminated food and water in the early 1900s. The vast reduction in milk-related illnesses during this period is attributed to the implementation of pasteurization as a processing step and improved sanitation and refrigeration throughout the production chain. In addition, domestically acquired milkborne tuberculosis and brucellosis have been virtually eliminated because of concerted efforts to control these diseases in the nation's cattle herds.

The study by Guh et al [6] describes the severe health consequences and costs associated with a single Escherichia coli O157 outbreak linked to commercial raw milk. Although dairy products as a group are generally considered low risk in the epidemiology of E. coli O157 [7], reports of hospitalizations and complications, such as hemolytic uremic syndrome, associated with contaminated raw milk appear to be on the rise, especially among children [6, 8–10]. Findings from this investigation also highlight the importance of secondary and tertiary transmission of E. coli O157 wherein one child that drank raw milk subsequently infected a sibling, who was then the source of infection for a third child. Advocates of raw milk frequently argue that consumption of raw milk is a personal choice, but this outbreak shows that it can be the source of a communicable disease with the potential to spread to non-raw milk drinkers. The authors are to be commended for including an economic analysis associated with this outbreak, which revealed more than $400,000 in medical and public health expenses. It would be beneficial if cost calculations became routine in foodborne outbreak reports.

This outbreak occurred in Connecticut, a state where retail and on-farm raw milk sales are legal. The US Department of Health and Human Services proposed a new Healthy People 2020 goal to “increase the number of states that have prohibited sale or distribution of unpasteurized dairy products” [11, p FS-3]. Although prohibition of raw milk sales and distribution is an effective intervention strategy, the authors duly note that proposed regulations to restrict retail raw milk sales in Connecticut after this outbreak failed because of strong public opposition and lack of political will. Despite a wealth of scientific data supporting the effectiveness of pasteurization in protecting the public from milkborne illness, there is a presumably small but vocal segment of the population that desires to consume raw dairy products. In lieu of bans, regulatory standards and education may be the best approaches to protect the public from exposure to contaminated raw milk. Regulations should include provisions such as pathogen testing, sanitation standards, and warning labels. The authors state, “Notably, contamination occurred despite acceptable milking and sanitation procedures, according to regulatory standards” [6, p 1415]. This finding suggests that there is a need for more research into best management practices for raw dairy production to reduce the risk of contamination in states where prohibition is not an option.

In addition to regulation, education is critical. Experts in infectious diseases are in the unique position to provide leadership in educating consumers, farmers, lawmakers, and the media about the relative risks of consuming raw milk. However, education efforts must be relevant to the population likely to seek commercial raw dairy products, a group that has been described as health-conscious, well-educated adults [12]. For those who value the perceived “probiotic” bacteria in raw milk and eschew processed foods, messages promoting pasteurization or even alternatives to pasteurization, such as filtration, sonication, and irradiation, are not likely to be effective. In addition, within the raw milk movement is a distrust of conventional medicine, agriculture, and government, somewhat analogous to the vaccination controversy. Because many people today visit the Internet for information on health and nutrition, communication strategies such asWeb sites and social media are becoming important tools for risk communication (for an example, visit http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com).

In summary, it is important for health professionals to educate themselves about the debate surrounding raw milk consumption and be prepared to answer questions from the public about both safety and health benefit claims.

Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
HellRoxYa
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1614 Posts
August 06 2011 05:34 GMT
#2
On August 06 2011 14:29 shinosai wrote:
It's my opinion here that this raid was absurd, and so is California law. How dare the government try and tell us what is healthy, when they created the joke that is known as the food pyramid. And whether or not you think raw milk is unsafe, what right do they have to regulate what I choose to drink. It's not even a drug!


Seriously? There are very good reasons for the government telling you that some stuff is bad for you. I doubt the milk is bad for you, and yes, there should probably not be laws against it. However, in a more general sense, I think you're out of your mind.
Disquiet
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia628 Posts
August 06 2011 05:34 GMT
#3
I'm pretty sure you can eat whatever organic food you want, but if you want to sell it you have to comply with regulations/agree to have your product tested to ensure it meets standard. This guy didn't and got arrested, simple as that.

and its nothing to do with the law against drugs, its about preventing selling of food that has not been tested and may not be safe.

By the way organic food is a scam its +50% in price for absolutely no health benefit, and it usually tastes worse.
graph1k
Profile Joined December 2010
United States97 Posts
August 06 2011 05:38 GMT
#4
Non-Pasteurized milk can be dangerous, not to say all is, but this guy was not complying with federal health and safety regulations, so got shut down. Just because your food is "healthier" doesn't mean you get to go around all the regulations the rest of us do.

That said most organic food really isn't different from "non-organic" food, there have been many cases where people just put organic on it since it means they can sell it for more.
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
August 06 2011 05:38 GMT
#5
So you're telling me, I can start a farm, poop in it every day, and sell you the food without government regulation?

Thats an extreme, but there are checks for a reason. "Organic" can be good for you, but oftentimes it just as bad, if not worse. In essence, "organic" can be directly translated to "without the benefits of modern technology."
Triscuit
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States722 Posts
August 06 2011 05:40 GMT
#6
On August 06 2011 14:29 shinosai wrote:
It's my opinion here that this raid was absurd, and so is California law. How dare the government try and tell us what is healthy, when they created the joke that is known as the food pyramid. And whether or not you think raw milk is unsafe, what right do they have to regulate what I choose to drink. It's not even a drug!


So is it your right to sell potentially harmful milk products to someone, who may or may not know the risk of consuming raw milk? What if said person feeds milk to her children, who have less established immune systems?

Pasteurization is done for a reason.
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-06 05:43:17
August 06 2011 05:41 GMT
#7
On August 06 2011 14:40 Triscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2011 14:29 shinosai wrote:
It's my opinion here that this raid was absurd, and so is California law. How dare the government try and tell us what is healthy, when they created the joke that is known as the food pyramid. And whether or not you think raw milk is unsafe, what right do they have to regulate what I choose to drink. It's not even a drug!


So is it your right to sell potentially harmful milk products to someone, who may or may not know the risk of consuming raw milk? What if said person feeds milk to her children, who have less established immune systems?

Pasteurization is done for a reason.


Is it a corporations right to sell cigarettes and alcohol, who may or may not know the risk of consuming cigarettes and alcohol?

And by the way, I'm not saying what this guy did wasn't against the law. Just that I don't agree with the law.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
Mr. Nefarious
Profile Joined December 2010
United States515 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-06 05:43:03
August 06 2011 05:42 GMT
#8
California is the 48th least free state in the union and somewhere I won't even vacation anymore due to their outrageous laws. Many of the everyday items I own including my car are illegal in California for seemingly no reason. Arn't you guys glad you voted for huge government and spending? They even have the time now to tell you what to eat and to raid grocery stores that have evil milk..

http://mercatus.org/freedom-50-states-2011/CA
저그 화이팅
Ojahh
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Ireland728 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-06 06:11:10
August 06 2011 05:44 GMT
#9
I think there is to sides to this, this
organic food is a scam its +50% in price for absolutely no health benefit, and it usually tastes worse.
is a statement out of proportion, there are several situations were organic food is beneficial, and yes it is often over priced, but so is a bottle of Coke as well.

And I also don't believe, that this raid came out of nowhere, I am guessing there is gonna be a back story about warnings that were given to them, about untreated food being sold, and they decided to stick it to the man, so seems to do the OP.

intriguing... I will follow this, will be interesting what becomes of it.

edit:
Ohh and wow at all the people shitting on the state for telling you what you have to do with your milk.

just on the minor example of pasteurization and for our hardcore organic friends Ill even go with "Cold-pasteurization" [which preserves more enzymes in the milk] you prevent a whole variety of diseases, starting with the all known Salmonells, Listeria as well as Staphylococcen, and Coli bacteria, plus many more and lots of these can spread after wards through contact, I don't know how many of you remember the over hundred people that died and got seriously in Germany 2 month ago, but that happened because of some untreated herb seeds.

I buy most my food on the market and especially my eggs and meat I like organic, but before you shit on regulations imposed by the State, consider this, if you consume completely untreated products especially high risk dairy products, you are risking serious infections and are willing to gamble with the lives of everybody around you. You are basically saying I want my milk raw, who cares if the baby I sneeze on in the train gets meningitis.

and most of the people who complain why the state is telling them what to do, would get the pitchforks out when there is a Coli epidemic and would blame the state for not doing anything, lets face it.
===== Barcraft Münster ===== www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282905! ////// ♥ Nyovne is the new Manifesto
Kaz_Coaching
Profile Joined October 2010
United States83 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-06 05:44:33
August 06 2011 05:44 GMT
#10
I actually stand behind the FDA and am glad we have them around to prevent unsafe food from reaching the market. There was a book floating around my history class about capitalism and how food plants were managed before they were regulated. I didn't actually read it, but the guys who did lost their appetite for a long time.

I think it's a shame that this violation was handled with an arrest. A simple cease and desist or termination of their store rights should have been pursued over arresting someone and potentially ruining their life. The clients knew what they were buying, it wasn't packaged with some other label. I can understand the arrest if they didn't comply after notification, which might be the case and just isn't headline news.
Nagano
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1157 Posts
August 06 2011 05:46 GMT
#11
The term organic has been thrown around so much that it's lost it's original significance of mainly being produced without artificial or synthetic additives, pesticides, hormones, etc. Instead, buy local and/or fair trade products.
“The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.”
Ingenol
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1328 Posts
August 06 2011 05:49 GMT
#12
This is disgusting. The government has no business telling anyone what they can or cannot put in or do to their bodies, or to tell anyone what they can or cannot sell to someone. It's YOUR body and you need to be responsible for it.

You can bet the reason this is getting raided is because of dairy/agra lobbies to state and federal representatives. It's just sickening how horrendous this country and the world at large is becoming.
Tippecanoe
Profile Joined May 2011
United States342 Posts
August 06 2011 05:51 GMT
#13
Thats an extreme, but there are checks for a reason. "Organic" can be good for you, but oftentimes it just as bad, if not worse. In essence, "organic" can be directly translated to "without the benefits of modern technology."

I will take organic food over cigarettes and alcohol every day.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
August 06 2011 05:52 GMT
#14
On August 06 2011 14:49 Ingenol wrote:
This is disgusting. The government has no business telling anyone what they can or cannot put in or do to their bodies, or to tell anyone what they can or cannot sell to someone. It's YOUR body and you need to be responsible for it.

You can bet the reason this is getting raided is because of dairy/agra lobbies to state and federal representatives. It's just sickening how horrendous this country and the world at large is becoming.

lol so if i want to sell you lead filled candy it is my right to do so!
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
August 06 2011 05:53 GMT
#15
On August 06 2011 14:49 Ingenol wrote:
This is disgusting. The government has no business telling anyone what they can or cannot put in or do to their bodies, or to tell anyone what they can or cannot sell to someone. It's YOUR body and you need to be responsible for it.

You can bet the reason this is getting raided is because of dairy/agra lobbies to state and federal representatives. It's just sickening how horrendous this country and the world at large is becoming.


This isn't an issue of what you can put into your body. Its a HEALTH issue. If this place was selling stuff that was not following regulations for food safety then a bunch of people died to some bacteria would you be bitching about how they didn't stop this guy? This was probably a bit of an overreaction by the law enforcement but if he was in fact ignoring the law for the production and storage of food products then its good that something was done.
Never Knows Best.
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
August 06 2011 05:53 GMT
#16
On August 06 2011 14:52 semantics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2011 14:49 Ingenol wrote:
This is disgusting. The government has no business telling anyone what they can or cannot put in or do to their bodies, or to tell anyone what they can or cannot sell to someone. It's YOUR body and you need to be responsible for it.

You can bet the reason this is getting raided is because of dairy/agra lobbies to state and federal representatives. It's just sickening how horrendous this country and the world at large is becoming.

lol so if i want to sell you lead filled candy it is my right to do so!


As long as you label it properly and explain the risks, feel free.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-06 06:02:31
August 06 2011 05:55 GMT
#17
On August 06 2011 14:53 shinosai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2011 14:52 semantics wrote:
On August 06 2011 14:49 Ingenol wrote:
This is disgusting. The government has no business telling anyone what they can or cannot put in or do to their bodies, or to tell anyone what they can or cannot sell to someone. It's YOUR body and you need to be responsible for it.

You can bet the reason this is getting raided is because of dairy/agra lobbies to state and federal representatives. It's just sickening how horrendous this country and the world at large is becoming.

lol so if i want to sell you lead filled candy it is my right to do so!


As long as you label it properly and explain the risks, feel free.

Obviously you never read the book that out raged America and jump started the F in fda
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
August 06 2011 05:55 GMT
#18
I also love how the OP is spinning this as an attack on organic foods. Seriously be more biased with an OP that gives one side and smacks of righteous indignation. Just how you described how he was arrested made it look 10x bad then it probably was.
Never Knows Best.
Binky1842
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States2599 Posts
August 06 2011 05:55 GMT
#19
is raw milk illegal in california? or did this store get it from a local farm that wasn't certified to have raw milk?

i drink raw milk frequently, as do a few friends, and we've never had any problems with it.
there's nothing dangerous with consuming raw food as long as it's prepared/stored correctly (as with any perishable food)
"The zoo could not confirm that Binky was the attacker, but only Binky had blood on his face following the incident"
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
August 06 2011 05:57 GMT
#20
On August 06 2011 14:55 Binky1842 wrote:
is raw milk illegal in california? or did this store get it from a local farm that wasn't certified to have raw milk?

i drink raw milk frequently, as do a few friends, and we've never had any problems with it.
there's nothing dangerous with consuming raw food as long as it's prepared/stored correctly (as with any perishable food)

raw milk can only be consumed by a cows owner in California so you get rich idiots that half buy cows so they can drink raw milk, as if drinking the milk of another mammal past the age of 3 is natural.
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