EPTBreak the law, go to jail.
The discussion of whether or not FDA rules to protect people are good or bad is kind of silly. Did his milk have giant surgeon general's warnings saying "THIS WILL PROBABLY KILL YOU"? Then don't compare it to tobacco.
California Raids Rawesome Food - Page 5
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Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
Break the law, go to jail. The discussion of whether or not FDA rules to protect people are good or bad is kind of silly. Did his milk have giant surgeon general's warnings saying "THIS WILL PROBABLY KILL YOU"? Then don't compare it to tobacco. | ||
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WhuazGoodJaggah
Lesotho777 Posts
On August 06 2011 16:42 semantics wrote: it's why the larger producer of organic foods in america grows most of it in china right! Also organic is worse for soil depending on what process is being used to grow and maintain the fields and the environment it often means used outdated and more toxic means of pesticides to keep the food from being worm filled. If you didn't know organic doesn't mean pesticide free just means the pesticide is organic too! This is about people being afraid of minute traces of chemicals in their food rather have that then no food because an apple cost 4 times as much. Also to an adult trace amounts of random chemicals usually means shit hell Teflon is in most of our systems. Want better health i guess people living to 70+ on avg isn't good enough for some. It doesn't matter at all where american food producers produce their food. I can code strictly functional in C++, that isn't making C++ less of an object oriented language. Can you give me credible sources (scientifc papers) which show that organic farming is worse? I have visited and worked on organic farms and IP (a swiss thing for inbetween) and conventional farms. Bio-Farming (thats how its called in switzerland) needs much more mechanical work, and the products often look worse because they are exposed to more animals which are not killed by chemicals. I had close looks to trees, gras and bushes on all kind of farms, and biological farms look more living (more animal movement in the soil). But yeah, I'd love to get some papers which show that swinging the chemical maul is better for the soil (includes animals living there like spiders) Again you talk about your health at the end. Organic food production is not about your health! What exactly organic food is and how it should be produced is different in almost every country, but the general idea originating arround 1910/1920 is still the same. I don't know about america but in switzerland and austria (the origins of bio-food) , bio-farms are strictly controlled (I expirienced it myself) thats why I trust organic food in those countrys but not really in others. Maybe you should read here about "Taste" and "Nutritional Value" so you can see for yourself that its a myth (or whatever you call that) implanted in the public mind by idiotic cooking shows and such, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food#Consumer_safety | ||
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Traeon
Austria366 Posts
On August 06 2011 17:12 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote: Maybe you should read here about "Taste" and "Nutritional Value" so you can see for yourself that its a myth (or whatever you call that) implanted in the public mind by idiotic cooking shows and such, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food#Consumer_safety Real organic meat tastes amazing compared to the spongy meat typically sold in supermarkets. | ||
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Binky1842
United States2599 Posts
On August 06 2011 16:42 semantics wrote: i have to respond to this terrible troll response. i can't JLIGit's why the larger producer of organic foods in america grows most of it in china right! Also organic is worse for soil depending on what process is being used to grow and maintain the fields and the environment it often means used outdated and more toxic means of pesticides to keep the food from being worm filled. If you didn't know organic doesn't mean pesticide free just means the pesticide is organic too! This is about people being afraid of minute traces of chemicals in their food rather have that then no food because an apple cost 4 times as much. Also to an adult trace amounts of random chemicals usually means shit hell Teflon is in most of our systems. Want better health i guess people living to 70+ on avg isn't good enough for some. it's why the larger producer of organic foods in america grows most of it in china right! most of the organic mass produced food in the western united states comes from south and central california. very few things come from oregon and washington as well. i dont know about the east coast because i dont deal with stuff from there so i cant comment on their situation with organic food stuffs (where they get it from). there are seasonal things that come from south/central america, new zealand, isreal, holland, but nothing i've ever seen that was labeled as organic has come from china. Also organic is worse for soil depending on what process is being used to grow and maintain the fields and the environment it often means used outdated and more toxic means of pesticides to keep the food from being worm filled. so like, composting the waste of the current years crop, mixing in manure from cows and letting it set is worse than spraying chemicals so the run off can go into streams and water sources? but yes, there are organic chemicals, but them being organic means they weren't synthesized in labs. it means they are mixtures of things found naturally.. in nature. more than likely these farms use lady bugs, spiders, praying mantis, snails etc. to control the insects that damage crops. worms don't do shit to organic crops other than help aerate the soilIf you didn't know organic doesn't mean pesticide free just means the pesticide is organic too! nope. for something to have that label of "organic" the soil it was grown in has to be chemical free for 7 years. the crops cannot be sprayed with pesticides, herbicides, cannot have synthetic fertilizers used. once any of those are used the product has to be labeled as such. if they use herbicides it's no longer organic, but they can say it's pesticide free.conventional produce uses whatever they can use to make the product look nice, have no bugs. but that cost is chemicals, herbicides, toxic runoff into the water, and it makes the soil unusable after years of this type of use. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
The guy didn't follow the rules and got in trouble for it. The consumer safety laws are in place so you don't get crappy food that won't make you sick, not so they can pick on you, jesus christ. People are getting huffy and puffy over no reason. Just follow the fucking rules and you'll be fine! | ||
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Disquiet
Australia628 Posts
On August 06 2011 17:18 Traeon wrote: Real organic meat tastes amazing compared to the spongy meat typically sold in supermarkets. thats because super market meat is the cheapest cuts possible. Get a quality steak from a butcher and it will be better and cost less. | ||
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Traeon
Austria366 Posts
it's why the larger producer of organic foods in america grows most of it in china right! Also organic is worse for soil depending on what process is being used to grow and maintain the fields and the environment it often means used outdated and more toxic means of pesticides to keep the food from being worm fille What, pesticides and organic food? If pesticides are used it isn't organic. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html You have to understand im coming from the US defined version of organic what it takes to label a piece of food organic which doesn't take alot. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8020 Posts
On August 06 2011 17:19 Gamegene wrote: Where's the controversy here? The guy didn't follow the rules and got in trouble for it. The consumer safety laws are in place so you don't get crappy food that won't make you sick, not so they can pick on you, jesus christ. People are getting huffy and puffy over no reason. Just follow the fucking rules and you'll be fine! This times 10. I can't believe people are answering with "We should be allowed to do what we want!". No, you shouldn't be, that would be anarchy. If its potentially dangerous to consume (and in this case, dangerous for everyone around you), then it shouldn't be legal. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8020 Posts
On August 06 2011 17:26 Disquiet wrote: thats because super market meat is the cheapest cuts possible. Get a quality steak from a butcher and it will be better and cost less. Didn't Penn and Teller do some tests with this? Where they broke a banana in two and told random tasters that one end was organic, and the other wasn't. Its all in the mind. Organic has never tasted better than non-organic, but that was never the point of it either. edit: Actually, in some cases it can taste better. Just like in some cases, non organic food can taste better than another brand of non organic food.. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
On August 06 2011 17:35 Excludos wrote: This times 10. I can't believe people are answering with "We should be allowed to do what we want!". No, you shouldn't be, that would be anarchy. If its potentially dangerous to consume (and in this case, dangerous for everyone around you), then it shouldn't be legal. Yes. Lets outlaw everything that's "potentially dangerous". Awesome idea. We'll end up sitting in front of our tv's 24/7 covered in bubble wrap. Laws should exist to protect you from other people, not to protect you from yourself. Only education can truly do that. Inform people of the risks and let them make their own choices. I think it's outrageous when that choice is taken from adults and one still considers their society "free". I am conflicted over this situation, however. They're feeding this stuff to their kids, and that shouldn't be allowed. Until someone of sound mind reaches the age of majority, there should be regulations in place to prevent them from making bad choices or having bad choices thrust upon them by their parents. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
What, pesticides and organic food? If pesticides are used it isn't organic. Simple Google search shows you wrong: http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=organic food pesticides&pbx=1&oq=organic food pesticides&aq=f&aqi=g4g-m1&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=326l3869l0l3989l25l16l1l2l3l0l225l1785l3.9.1l13l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=661c0b1152c259b4&biw=1366&bih=596 As to the safety of organic foods, it isn't all sunshine and flowers: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/dining/04cert.html I'm not saying "organic" food is inherently more or less safe than "non-organic," but organic foods simply remove the (very minimal) threat of food gone bad thanks to synthetic chemicals being used on them. That's all. Organic food just lessens one particular type of risk. conventional produce uses whatever they can use to make the product look nice, have no bugs. but that cost is chemicals, herbicides, toxic runoff into the water, and it makes the soil unusable after years of this type of use. which is simply not true under good management .__. part of the reason why some people dislike organic food so much is that organic food enthusiasts cannot stop their personal enthusiasm from turning into a moral crusade that it simply is not. non-organic farming methods do not destroy the soil or the environment in general if used properly, if not then of course they are going to do damage. the political aspects of the organic food movement are generally pretty hippie-dippie; organic food is better because GM food is dangerous (no, it's not) and non-organic rapes the land (no, it doesn't if you use proper methods) and organic food isn't under the control of those eeeeeval corporations. less crusade and more food pls As for Rawesome foods, the fiscal conservative / libertarian part of me says what the fuck is the government doing bothering these people and spending tax dollars to do it on a year-long undercover investigation that God knows how much it cost. Then the law and order part of me says, Yeah but the police didn't go after them because they don't like people eating what they want, Rawesome Foods decided to get in a pissing match with the government and the government can't just allow people to get into and win pissing contests with it whenever they want, people would start doing it with laws more important than the ones about getting certification from the State as an organic foods distributor or whatever certification/registration/licensing the dispute was about. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On August 06 2011 17:40 3clipse wrote: Yes. Lets outlaw everything that's "potentially dangerous". Awesome idea. We'll end up sitting in front of our tv's 24/7 covered in bubble wrap. Laws should exist to protect you from other people, not to protect you from yourself. Only education can truly do that. Inform people of the risks and let them make their own choices. I think it's outrageous when that choice is taken from adults and one still considers their society "free". I am conflicted over this situation, however. They're feeding this stuff to their kids, and that shouldn't be allowed. Until someone of sound mind reaches the age of majority, there should be regulations in place to prevent them from making bad choices or having bad choices thrust upon them by their parents. Would you disagree with seatbelt laws here in California? It's required for you to wear a seatbelt at all times driving a car otherwise you get a ticket. Is that wrong? Is it wrong for you to be required to put it on for personal safety? I understand your point, but this kind of stuff is really really really small considering the disparity between risks and rewards involved. | ||
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strength
United States493 Posts
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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
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Sworn
Canada920 Posts
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On August 06 2011 14:34 Disquiet wrote: I'm pretty sure you can eat whatever organic food you want, but if you want to sell it you have to comply with regulations/agree to have your product tested to ensure it meets standard. This guy didn't and got arrested, simple as that. and its nothing to do with the law against drugs, its about preventing selling of food that has not been tested and may not be safe. By the way organic food is a scam its +50% in price for absolutely no health benefit, and it usually tastes worse. WHAT?? Food without any pesticides and fertelizers are 100% healthier and tastier! No discussion there! About this case, if he was selling this stuff and if they were not 100% biological or was produced wrong(higienic safety) maybe they were right! If it was against Biological to inforce monsanto grown shit food then you americans are fucked big time! | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Now if the owner was NOT given any prior notice whatsoever, then I have a big problem with what they did. Not only is it an overreaction of epic proportions, but a huge waste of money. Unless they had claims that food from the farm was making people sick, or secretly growing some weed, or engineering some biochemical WMDs made out of cheese, I cannot understand why they would take action on a scale like this. I guess we'll have to wait to hear to whole story. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Food without any pesticides and fertelizers are 100% healthier and tastier! No discussion there! No, they aren't, and not even organic food advocacy groups will go so far as to say this. No definitive study or series of studies has been done on whether organic is healthier than non-organic (much less "100%" or 2x as healthy), and tastier is a matter of subjective opinion from one human to the next. I suppose scientifically you could show Food X activated more taste buds than Food Y or something but that isn't tastier in the sense you mean it. | ||
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Traeon
Austria366 Posts
On August 06 2011 18:09 DeepElemBlues wrote: No, they aren't, and not even organic food advocacy groups will go so far as to say this. No definitive study or series of studies has been done on whether organic is healthier than non-organic (much less "100%" or 2x as healthy), and tastier is a matter of subjective opinion from one human to the next. I suppose scientifically you could show Food X activated more taste buds than Food Y or something but that isn't tastier in the sense you mean it. A lack of a "definitive study" doesn't mean it's unreasonable to assume they are more healthy. I'm not even sure I trust your assertion that such studies don't exist. Anyway, that meat from animals feeding on grass contains a lot more omega 3 fatty acids and milk from grass fed cows also contains more omega 3's, so we *should* assume they are more healthy. (Yes there are studies, no I won't search for you. They are easy enough to find) Omega 3's *definitely* promote health. | ||
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