|
On August 06 2011 15:24 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 15:22 Nagano wrote:On August 06 2011 15:09 gorbonic wrote:As a general response (I can't hold back): Please, please, please note the difference between raw and organic milk. Pasteurized organic milk is perfectly legal in California. What "the government" is wary of is RAW (unpasteurized) milk. This is also a Federal issue. For reference: FDA information on Milk SafetyIs it safe to consume raw milk? A: No. Raw milk is inherently dangerous and it should not be consumed by anyone at any time for any purpose...From 1998 to 2008, 85 outbreaks of human infections resulting from consumption of raw milk were reported to CDC. These outbreaks included a total of 1,614 reported illnesses, 187 hospitalizations and 2 deaths. Because not all cases of foodborne illness are recognized and reported, the actual number of illnesses associated with raw milk likely is greater. I hope that clears up any misconceptions. Holy shit 2 deaths in 10 years, someone call the SWAT team. Oh wait.... It was only 2 deaths because selling raw milk was illegal during that 10 year period and very little raw milk was consumed as a result of strict enforcement of the law.
Point still stands. I don't even have to state how much alcohol kills. Or driving. Or being obese. Or smoking. Or standing upside down on your hands. Get the point?
|
On August 06 2011 15:26 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 15:24 Zzoram wrote:On August 06 2011 15:22 Nagano wrote:On August 06 2011 15:09 gorbonic wrote:As a general response (I can't hold back): Please, please, please note the difference between raw and organic milk. Pasteurized organic milk is perfectly legal in California. What "the government" is wary of is RAW (unpasteurized) milk. This is also a Federal issue. For reference: FDA information on Milk SafetyIs it safe to consume raw milk? A: No. Raw milk is inherently dangerous and it should not be consumed by anyone at any time for any purpose...From 1998 to 2008, 85 outbreaks of human infections resulting from consumption of raw milk were reported to CDC. These outbreaks included a total of 1,614 reported illnesses, 187 hospitalizations and 2 deaths. Because not all cases of foodborne illness are recognized and reported, the actual number of illnesses associated with raw milk likely is greater. I hope that clears up any misconceptions. Holy shit 2 deaths in 10 years, someone call the SWAT team. Oh wait.... It was only 2 deaths because selling raw milk was illegal during that 10 year period and very little raw milk was consumed as a result of strict enforcement of the law. Point still stands. I don't even have to state how much alcohol kills. Or driving. Or being obese. Or smoking. Or standing upside down on your hands. Get the point?
The government is actively trying to reduce deaths from all of those things for the good of the public. A lot of effort is put into anti-drunk-driving campaigns, discouraging smoking, and giving people information about eating well and exercising.
Are you saying that people die from lots of stuff so the government shouldn't bother intervening?
|
Instead of redirecting me to the Health and Fitness initiative thread, can you just tell me the information you think is so obvious?
|
On August 06 2011 15:29 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 15:26 Nagano wrote:On August 06 2011 15:24 Zzoram wrote:On August 06 2011 15:22 Nagano wrote:On August 06 2011 15:09 gorbonic wrote:As a general response (I can't hold back): Please, please, please note the difference between raw and organic milk. Pasteurized organic milk is perfectly legal in California. What "the government" is wary of is RAW (unpasteurized) milk. This is also a Federal issue. For reference: FDA information on Milk SafetyIs it safe to consume raw milk? A: No. Raw milk is inherently dangerous and it should not be consumed by anyone at any time for any purpose...From 1998 to 2008, 85 outbreaks of human infections resulting from consumption of raw milk were reported to CDC. These outbreaks included a total of 1,614 reported illnesses, 187 hospitalizations and 2 deaths. Because not all cases of foodborne illness are recognized and reported, the actual number of illnesses associated with raw milk likely is greater. I hope that clears up any misconceptions. Holy shit 2 deaths in 10 years, someone call the SWAT team. Oh wait.... It was only 2 deaths because selling raw milk was illegal during that 10 year period and very little raw milk was consumed as a result of strict enforcement of the law. Point still stands. I don't even have to state how much alcohol kills. Or driving. Or being obese. Or smoking. Or standing upside down on your hands. Get the point? The government is actively trying to reduce deaths from all of those things for the good of the public. A lot of effort is put into anti-drunk-driving campaigns, discouraging smoking, and giving people information about eating well and exercising. Are you saying that people die from lots of stuff so the government shouldn't bother intervening?
But all that effort is fundamentally different, because none of those things are outlawed. Why can't the government put a lot of effort into anti-raw milk campaigns, discouraging raw milk, and giving people information about the dangers of raw milk? Instead, they just outright ban it.
|
On August 06 2011 15:26 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 15:24 Zzoram wrote:On August 06 2011 15:22 Nagano wrote:On August 06 2011 15:09 gorbonic wrote:As a general response (I can't hold back): Please, please, please note the difference between raw and organic milk. Pasteurized organic milk is perfectly legal in California. What "the government" is wary of is RAW (unpasteurized) milk. This is also a Federal issue. For reference: FDA information on Milk SafetyIs it safe to consume raw milk? A: No. Raw milk is inherently dangerous and it should not be consumed by anyone at any time for any purpose...From 1998 to 2008, 85 outbreaks of human infections resulting from consumption of raw milk were reported to CDC. These outbreaks included a total of 1,614 reported illnesses, 187 hospitalizations and 2 deaths. Because not all cases of foodborne illness are recognized and reported, the actual number of illnesses associated with raw milk likely is greater. I hope that clears up any misconceptions. Holy shit 2 deaths in 10 years, someone call the SWAT team. Oh wait.... It was only 2 deaths because selling raw milk was illegal during that 10 year period and very little raw milk was consumed as a result of strict enforcement of the law. Point still stands. I don't even have to state how much alcohol kills. Or driving. Or being obese. Or smoking. Or standing upside down on your hands. Get the point?
Except there is no reason to drink raw milk? Drinking = consumption of alcohol, alcohol is the dangerous element. Smoking = the consumption of nicotine and tobacco, nicotine and tobacco are the dangerous elements. What exactly is the advantage of raw milk?
|
By raiding liquor stores? Banning cigarettes? Banning driving because accidents cause deaths (way more than raw milk ever will)? Banning high fructose corn syrups? Banning pools because children drown in them?(significantly more than child-involved gun accidents) still don't get the picture huh...
|
On August 06 2011 15:30 DamageControL wrote:
Instead of redirecting me to the Health and Fitness initiative thread, can you just tell me the information you think is so obvious?
http://www.bryanmarcel.com/the-food-pyramid-flaw
Between 1980, the first year of the food pyramid, and 2006 diabetes rates tripled [1] and obesity rates continue to rise [2] . In 1960 13 percent of Americans were obese [3] today that number is 26 percent and climbing steadily, yet our saturated fat intake has declined to 7.8 percent [4]. So after almost 60 years of following the low fat advice we are twice as fat. It isn’t the fats that are making us fat. The amount of saturated fat in our diet is not linked with weight gain or disease. The problem is that we are consuming low fat, high carbohydrate, sugar and artificially sweetened, chemically laden, highly processed, non-nutritious foods.
|
On August 06 2011 15:31 Bactrian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 15:26 Nagano wrote:On August 06 2011 15:24 Zzoram wrote:On August 06 2011 15:22 Nagano wrote:On August 06 2011 15:09 gorbonic wrote:As a general response (I can't hold back): Please, please, please note the difference between raw and organic milk. Pasteurized organic milk is perfectly legal in California. What "the government" is wary of is RAW (unpasteurized) milk. This is also a Federal issue. For reference: FDA information on Milk SafetyIs it safe to consume raw milk? A: No. Raw milk is inherently dangerous and it should not be consumed by anyone at any time for any purpose...From 1998 to 2008, 85 outbreaks of human infections resulting from consumption of raw milk were reported to CDC. These outbreaks included a total of 1,614 reported illnesses, 187 hospitalizations and 2 deaths. Because not all cases of foodborne illness are recognized and reported, the actual number of illnesses associated with raw milk likely is greater. I hope that clears up any misconceptions. Holy shit 2 deaths in 10 years, someone call the SWAT team. Oh wait.... It was only 2 deaths because selling raw milk was illegal during that 10 year period and very little raw milk was consumed as a result of strict enforcement of the law. Point still stands. I don't even have to state how much alcohol kills. Or driving. Or being obese. Or smoking. Or standing upside down on your hands. Get the point? Except there is no reason to drink raw milk? Drinking = consumption of alcohol, alcohol is the dangerous element. Smoking = the consumption of nicotine and tobacco, nicotine and tobacco are the dangerous elements. What exactly is the advantage of raw milk?
Sorry what's the point of drinking alcohol again...
You can't take 5 minutes to google the advantages of raw (milk) consumption?
|
United States22883 Posts
You speak in generalities as if there's just "the government" that does things, or that all Americans follow the food pyramid.
Also, communicable diseases from raw meats can spread from food product to food product, and it's much more likely for a person to unknowingly consume unsafe meat/milk than to unknowingly consume alcohol.
|
Instead of sitting there wondering how you can get that guy back on the forums, open up your mind to the benefits of living outside the legislative clusterfuck that is the 21st century U.S.
|
On August 06 2011 15:38 Jibba wrote:
You speak in generalities as if there's just "the government" that does things, or that all Americans follow the food pyramid.
Also, communicable diseases from raw meats can spread from food product to food product, and it's much more likely for a person to unknowingly consume unsafe meat/milk than to unknowingly consume alcohol.
This is a case where the raided foods were labeled raw. The consumers knowingly bought these products for this very reason.
FDA don't play
|
|
|
On August 06 2011 15:38 Jibba wrote:
You speak in generalities as if there's just "the government" that does things, or that all Americans follow the food pyramid.
Also, communicable diseases from raw meats can spread from food product to food product, and it's much more likely for a person to unknowingly consume unsafe meat/milk than to unknowingly consume alcohol.
Well, at least when I grew up, we learned about the food pyramid in public school. Who is in charge of public schools? And while there is no proof that ALL Americans follow the food pyramid (I try to avoid absolutes), there is evidence that many do. Hence an increase in grain consumption and a decrease in fat consumption.
|
United States22883 Posts
On August 06 2011 15:40 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 15:38 Jibba wrote:
You speak in generalities as if there's just "the government" that does things, or that all Americans follow the food pyramid.
Also, communicable diseases from raw meats can spread from food product to food product, and it's much more likely for a person to unknowingly consume unsafe meat/milk than to unknowingly consume alcohol. This is a case where the raided foods were labeled raw. The consumers knowingly bought these products for this very reason. FDA don't play You don't know who he was selling to. There's just not much information available.
|
United States22883 Posts
On August 06 2011 15:45 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 15:38 Jibba wrote:
You speak in generalities as if there's just "the government" that does things, or that all Americans follow the food pyramid.
Also, communicable diseases from raw meats can spread from food product to food product, and it's much more likely for a person to unknowingly consume unsafe meat/milk than to unknowingly consume alcohol. Well, at least when I grew up, we learned about the food pyramid in public school. Who is in charge of public schools? And while there is no proof that ALL Americans follow the food pyramid (I try to avoid absolutes), there is evidence that many do. Hence an increase in grain consumption and a decrease in fat consumption.
What evidence is there that anyone follows the food pyramid? You grew up learning to brush and floss after every meal, didn't you? How many people do you know who do that?
You can't say "the food pyramid's nutritional recommendations are bad, because since it was released obesity has gone up." That's a fallacy. You can certainly show that its recommendations are poor, and I doubt it would be hard to do, but the evidence you quoted is meaningless. If you're going to argue it, give it a proper defense.
|
I feel a little bit of sympathy because I understand that most of these people just want to eat healthily but holy shit. The website in the OP says that there's an "all-out war" against organic foods. That's a little bit over the top, to say the least. Some dude getting his store raided isn't a war. You can go to other organic food stores, hopefully ones where the store owner follows the rules before putting unpasteurized milk in your food. Its not something to mess around with.
|
On August 06 2011 15:35 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 15:31 Bactrian wrote:On August 06 2011 15:26 Nagano wrote:On August 06 2011 15:24 Zzoram wrote:On August 06 2011 15:22 Nagano wrote:On August 06 2011 15:09 gorbonic wrote:As a general response (I can't hold back): Please, please, please note the difference between raw and organic milk. Pasteurized organic milk is perfectly legal in California. What "the government" is wary of is RAW (unpasteurized) milk. This is also a Federal issue. For reference: FDA information on Milk SafetyIs it safe to consume raw milk? A: No. Raw milk is inherently dangerous and it should not be consumed by anyone at any time for any purpose...From 1998 to 2008, 85 outbreaks of human infections resulting from consumption of raw milk were reported to CDC. These outbreaks included a total of 1,614 reported illnesses, 187 hospitalizations and 2 deaths. Because not all cases of foodborne illness are recognized and reported, the actual number of illnesses associated with raw milk likely is greater. I hope that clears up any misconceptions. Holy shit 2 deaths in 10 years, someone call the SWAT team. Oh wait.... It was only 2 deaths because selling raw milk was illegal during that 10 year period and very little raw milk was consumed as a result of strict enforcement of the law. Point still stands. I don't even have to state how much alcohol kills. Or driving. Or being obese. Or smoking. Or standing upside down on your hands. Get the point? Except there is no reason to drink raw milk? Drinking = consumption of alcohol, alcohol is the dangerous element. Smoking = the consumption of nicotine and tobacco, nicotine and tobacco are the dangerous elements. What exactly is the advantage of raw milk? Sorry what's the point of drinking alcohol again... You can't take 5 minutes to google the advantages of raw (milk) consumption? I just took five minutes to google the advantages of raw milk consumption. There are none. I've linked in an earlier post to the FDA's Q&A on raw milk. And also keep in mind that in most places, including California where all of this went down, local raw milk is legal. It's illegal to sell unlabeled raw milk, or raw milk that doesn't meet basic standards that minimize public risk.
Said risk, by the way, has no function. It's hard to analogize raw milk with drugs & alcohol, because raw milk is senseless by comparison. If some car manufacturers sold cars that occasionally catch on fire for no reason, it would be a matter of public risk, and open game for regulation. Same thing with mortgages: if lenders occasionally lied to unqualified consumers and banks bundled up the bad loans into investments, and ratings agencies disingenuously labeled them as AAA, it would be a matter of senseless economic risk to the public, and subject to government regulation.
Or we can cry out for unqualified "freedom" and enjoy the consequences.
|
The OP is super misleading. There is no attack on organic foods, just illegal raw milk sales.
|
On August 06 2011 15:34 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 15:30 DamageControL wrote:
Instead of redirecting me to the Health and Fitness initiative thread, can you just tell me the information you think is so obvious? http://www.bryanmarcel.com/the-food-pyramid-flawShow nested quote +Between 1980, the first year of the food pyramid, and 2006 diabetes rates tripled [1] and obesity rates continue to rise [2] . In 1960 13 percent of Americans were obese [3] today that number is 26 percent and climbing steadily, yet our saturated fat intake has declined to 7.8 percent [4]. So after almost 60 years of following the low fat advice we are twice as fat. It isn’t the fats that are making us fat. The amount of saturated fat in our diet is not linked with weight gain or disease. The problem is that we are consuming low fat, high carbohydrate, sugar and artificially sweetened, chemically laden, highly processed, non-nutritious foods.
That's well documented, I thought you were speaking about raw milk particularly?
|
On August 06 2011 14:53 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 14:49 Ingenol wrote:
This is disgusting. The government has no business telling anyone what they can or cannot put in or do to their bodies, or to tell anyone what they can or cannot sell to someone. It's YOUR body and you need to be responsible for it.
You can bet the reason this is getting raided is because of dairy/agra lobbies to state and federal representatives. It's just sickening how horrendous this country and the world at large is becoming. This isn't an issue of what you can put into your body. Its a HEALTH issue. If this place was selling stuff that was not following regulations for food safety then a bunch of people died to some bacteria would you be bitching about how they didn't stop this guy? This was probably a bit of an overreaction by the law enforcement but if he was in fact ignoring the law for the production and storage of food products then its good that something was done.
This is exactly what I was going to say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
