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[D]Tyler and MC a different style of PvT

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
June 18 2011 00:32 GMT
#1
All three of these replays are from MLG Columbus and can be found here http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/2011-columbus-starcraft2-champ.html, and the three matches I chose are two games of MC vs. Thorzain and a game of Tyler vs. Select. I chose them for the simple reason that they display a more gateway centric style with either a late (3 base) or no colossi, which is always interesting to see. It is a style that is becoming more and more popular, especially in Korea where I guess you could say it was founded back when MC was doing 6wg all ins in GSL season 3.



The Liquid Tyler 1-1 6wg timing
This build, like many other 6wg builds is designed as a timing attack verses terran and generally requires you to do damage as most timing attacks do, however since you have 2 forges you are not as far behind if you do not do the required damage. This is because it gives you a basis of infrastructure and you can easily transition, also it gives you a 1-1. While Tyler has done this in a few tourneys and also on his stream I decided to choose the game of Tyler vs. Select on Shattered Temple because it really shows that the game does not need to go your way and that the build overall is safe to timings that are less frequent.
• 9 Pylon
• 13 gate (due note he is mineral stacking and did not 9 scout)
• Gateway scout (really a personal preference)
• 14 gas
• 16 pylon
• 18 core
• After core is started Tyler decides to go zealot before second gas which is the safer option but is again personal preference, also Tyler is meticulous so he probably has this timed out for optimal gas anyway.
• 21-22 second gas
• 22 pylon
• Start warp gate immediately
• Next 100 gas goes to a sentry. (25 supply, Also a very Tyler like move, Tyler tends to favor Sentry after zealot in this match up which is something I don’t see much of)
• At this point Tyler has 51 energy saved on his nexus and chronos his warp gate when it starts
• 27 is when Tyler starts his robo, or right before his first sentry pops
• His next unit is a second zealot pushing him up to 30 supply. (I am fairly sure he goes sentry zealot heavy because he thinks it fairs better vs. the standard conclusive shell push, also it is cheaper overall than a zealot, stalker sentry or really any thing that gets stalkers)
• When his zealot is at ~50% he throws down his second gateway (30 supply)
• Starts second sentry that takes him up to 34 supply
• Starts his first obs as soon as robo finishes bumps him to 36 supply, chronos his observer
• 36 supply his third gate way goes down (standard Tyler opener)
• ~5:52 his warp gate finishes (chronoed 3 times)
• His second observer bumps him to 39 supply
• 39 Nexus, ~6:20
• 46 supply is when Tyler drops his 2 forges, note he is pooling chronos for his 1-1
• ~63 supply is when Tyler drops gates 4 and 5, safe to assume that the 6th goes down there as when but Tyler had to spread his units out for a battle upcoming
• You then push out with 1-1 and you do as much damage as you can without being reckless.
*Important notes : If you can not do the build perfectly do not follow the notes, but follow general timings. I.e., download the replay. Also, Tyler cuts probes and does not take his third and 4th gas and stays quite zealot heavy. (cuts at 38 6 on gas and 16 per nexus mining minerals)
*Give credit where credit is due, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=206596 , Iamke55 does a great write up that talks about double forge (primarily 3 colossi timing) I recommend you read it.

I chose this replay to analyze because it shows how he can transition out of this build, if you want to see him just destroy someone feel free to watch him vs ensnare in game 3 in the Saga City tourney. In the spoilers will be my personal analysis of the games, due note they are in a spoiler because they take up quite some space.

+ Show Spoiler +
The game starts off with Select going for a gas less CC and Tyler doing his standard but eventually turns into select going for a two ghost push and Tyler going for his 1-1 6wg play.
[image loading]
[image loading]


As you can see Tyler has not seen the ghost academy yet even though he had his obs in his base. This is sort of a big deal and it would really have been a disappointing loss if he died because of this, however Tyler’s build is safe enough to be just fine against this style of play.
[image loading]

Select scans and kills Tyler’s observer, which ends up not really mattering because Tyler had already built a second one.
[image loading]
Tyler’s second obs sees selects first ghost at 8:30, this is pretty huge because it gives Tyler time to not only spread his units but it gives him an idea of what he is going up against.
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


Tyler is able to use his observer to not only see the army but also to see that the rally point is set to his side of the map which really signifies aggression. Seeing the push ahead of time Tyler is able to spread his units in a way that not all of his sentries can be emped (2 ghosts with 1 emp each), this also allows him to get a greater concave than his terran opponent Select. This just goes to show just how big of a deal a good observer scouting is. This is because if Tyler had not seen the ghost and the push out he would have no idea that he would need to spread his units and he would fall victim to the impending emps.
[image loading]

As you can see the emps only hit 4 of his sentries, and Tyler is even able to cast a guardian shield off one of them before the emp lands, this shows how big of a deal positioning plays not only in this match up but in Starcraft in general.

[image loading]

Tyler ends up losing all but one of his sentries but select ends up losing his whole army. Before the fight Tyler was behind in food since he was spending money on 2 forges and focusing on upgrades while select was primarily pumping units, so that fight went about as well as it could have for Tyler.

[image loading]

Tyler decides to do a counter push after his 1-1 finished. He gets pushed back and loses his pylon but lowers Selects worker count from 42 to 33.

[image loading]

Tyler engages and kill more workers but his force fields ended up giving the zealots less surface area and ends up losing all of his zealots. Tyler is forced to pull back losing many units to marauder slow, however he is in a huge economic lead. The harvester count at this point is 47 to 28 which means Tyler is looking to take a third as he grows closer to being over saturated. He lost all of his sentries in the battle and only keeps 6 stalkers. Also, Select had medivacs out which are really good versus this style of attack and really helped swing the momentum.

[image loading]

After seeing the medivacs and being satisfied with the economic damage he did, Tyler feels comfortable transitioning into standard colossi play. I would have been a little bit more weary about a counter attack, but then again I am not Tyler =D.

[image loading]

When I first saw this replay I was incredibly perplexed that Tyler manages to hold a 6 medivac push without a colossi.

[image loading]

Again Tyler uses his scouting to give him a nice conclave, however his sentries really could be split better. However, Tyler makes me look like a fool by splitting just as an emp landed, like literally two sentries got out just in time.

[image loading]

His colossi pops just in time and forces Select to retreat, Tyler chases and manages to pick off some medivacs which forces Select to re-engage, this was huge play by Tyler because he picks off medivacs and kills almost all of the marauders. Select ends up losing 4 medivacs and both players look to take a third base.

[image loading]

Tyler pokes in with his stalkers and colossi to do damage without really taking damage. He also manages to force emps from Select, in fact all of selects emps. Take note of this Protoss players, if there is room to do damage without receiving then take advantage of it. Drawing the emps also assures that his sentries will have full energy for the next engagement. From here Tyler grabs his fourth colossi and pushes and wins. This game shows a transition of the build and really showcases the importance of scouting and positioning in pvt. It also shows you that you can take advantage of a terran by poking as long as you don’t over extend.


Best of luck at Dream Hack! ~~~Tyler Hwighting~~~

MC vs. Thorzain
“Korean style PvT”
“Korean style Pvt” refers to a style that is increasing in popularity in Korea that involves getting a forge and a twilight council instead of going for two base colossi. Essentially you rely on gateway units and positioning. They tend to go for dark templar (for map control and possible damage, do note dark shrine is a really good tool in PvT that allows you to get map control and punish greedier terrans). The templar route is my personal favorite but another style is to go for 3 base colossi either off of double robo. I chose two replays of MC doing this style with two different routes, in the first game he goes for the templar route while in the second game he goes from templar tech to two robo colossi. I personally like this style because it makes the match up less of a numbers game (vikings vs colossi), into a micro game.
Second replay Xel Naga Caverns

• 9 pylon
• 12 gate (gateway scout…. And Like every build order personal preference)
• 14 gas
• 16 pylon
• 17 core
• 18 gas
• His first unit from his gateway is a stalker (personal preference) and he starts warp gate
• 23 pylon
• Chrono on gate and core 24 supply or whenever you hit 50 energy
• His second unit he makes is a sentry taking him up to 26 supply.
• 28 supply MC throws down gateways 2 and 3
• His third unit he makes is another sentry; essentially he just wants to hold his ramp with force fields until he gets his production up
• At 6:00 his warp gate finishes and he warps in 3 sentries (totaling 6)
• 43 food or around 6:30 he takes his natural
• MC makes 7 sentries, which is a really new sight for me seeing as most players get between 4-5 max, but MC shows us that if you are going to go a more gateway style that sentries are the key
• It is advisable to either pressure or to poke, or at least attempt to take map control with your new found swell of production (3gates)
• ~7:10 or 52 supply MC drops his robo because he wants to play safe and has little to no idea what Thorzain is doing besides his early 2 rax play
• 7:40 Mc pushes out and takes map control by clearing the towers
• ~71 supply MC grabs his 3rd and 4th gas, important to note he got his heavy sentry count and then spent his gas on observers and focused mainly on zealots
• 73 supply MC drops his Forge and Twilight council (he gets +1 attack and Blink first, which I thought was risky but MC holds a medivac timing with excellent force fields and blink
+ Show Spoiler +

He eventually techs to dark shrine and templar archives but there is no point in putting the supply/time down for this since all of this info can change depending on events that occur in the game. He adds 3 gates right before he takes his third, which is really important because you need more gateway infrastructure if you plan on doing this build. Before the Nexus he drops his Dark shrine.

[image loading]

There is no getting up that ramp for Thorzain, and if he sticks around he is in for a really rough game. Essentially if he stuck around he could have been run down and his low ground expansion would have been compromised.

[image loading]

This is a great play by MC because he identified the fact that Thorzain opened 2 rax conclusive shell, so he knew he would be able to take map control. Thorzain identified this by already having three bunkers, but MC essentially is faking pressure and gaining map presence and denying info from Thorzain.

[image loading]
[image loading]

Thorzain decides to push while taking his third by going for a delayed 2 medivac push due to his opener and being forced to make 3 bunkers and a few turrets. MC understands this and builds the Dark Shrine. Again, now that MC can see this coming he positions his stalkers to prevent drops, and since he has blink he is able to blink down to engage.

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]

Thorzain looks like he is going to be going for a drop, but MC positions his stalkers in a place where they can be blinked down if Thorzain should push through his natural choke. Thorzain does this and MC defends with immaculate force fields. He chases down the army and gets free damage, which is a really important thing to do in high level play, by picking off that medivac it signifies significant damage for no real cost. However, MC is still behind in supply due to a 10 worker deficit.

[image loading]

Thorzain flies a command center to the gold, MC understands he needs to do something about this because if Thorzain takes the gold his fourth will be significantly faster and he can control space with a pf at the gold. MC then drops his templar archives and takes out the rocks at his gold. He then checks the terran army by sending in a dark templar.

[image loading]

MC engages but it does not go his way and loses all of his zealots and sentries and is forced to cancel his gold. Thorzain retreats and MC goes for some more free damage picking off 2 more marauders, storm is now finished researching and MC has a few templar back home and retakes his gold.

[image loading]

A series of sick storms and drawing emps severely weakens the terran army, so MC reinforces and crushes it. This essentially ends the game, and shows that managing your emps and storms are really important in these situations.


Replay 3
MC vs. Thorzain on Tal’darim Altar
This replay showcases the templar play into three base two robo colossi, which this game shows can be really effective if your opponent does not know about your tech switch. His opener is a two gas one gateway expansion build which focuses on getting early sentries. I am not sure of how safe this build is but since it is Tal’darim, and you chase out the scouting scv with your first stalker I think it should be ok. Especially since you drop a relatively fast second and third gateway.

• 9 pylon
• 12 gate
• 14 gas
• 15-16 pylon
• 17 core
• 18-19 gas
• His first unit out of his gate way is a stalker and it takes him up to 22 supply, he chronos his gate and cyber at the same time
• 23 pylon
• His second unit is a sentry and it takes him up to 26 supply
• Nexus on 30 and constant sentry production
• 31 food MC drops his second and third gateways
• 36 supply MC drops his robo since his scouting has been limited thus far
• ~57 supply MC drops his twilight council
• ~61 supply MC drops his forge
• Again MC goes for the 7 sentry +1 attack and blink first play that he did last game
• ~81 supply MC drops 3 more gateways to boost his infrastructure

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

That is as far as I will take the build order, but Thorzain does the same two medivac timing but it is about one minute and thirty seconds faster. Also, blink finished just in time so I am fairly sure MC has his timings down to a T so that he can have blink for the standard two medivac timing. He ends up backing off and waits for four medivacs.

[image loading]

A key difference between this game and the one on Xel Naga is that MC decides to go for a much faster Templar archives, this may be because he realized that Thorzain was prepared last name and all the dts did was contest for map control. After this MC pushes forward and sniped three medivacs FOR FREE. This is a huge play and gives him an unreal advantage, and he is now ahead 20 supply.

[image loading]

Thorzain does a little poke and ends up killing some templars while taking little to no damage, this is what he needs in order to come back and it was a good play.

[image loading]

Thorzain walks near the edge and gets his whole army stormed, big play by MC and MC is pushing out. At 16:04 MC is up 50 supply and is in a dominant position. MC moves forward while securing his fourth.

[image loading]

MC starts to make the transition into double robo colossi and since he is so far ahead it will be really hard for Thorzain to deal with it. While doing this MC is sharking around in the middle with complete map control and scouts Thorzain’s proxy cc and forces a cancel.

[image loading]

Thorzain having to cancel his fourth and knowing that he needs to regain map control to retake it pushes out and lands some great emps with his insane number of ghosts. MC’s force fields work against him and Thorzain regains map control with some sick ghost control.

[image loading]

MC just lost a major battle a few seconds before this but two more colossi rallied out and since Thorzain was not prepared and since MC has been sitting on his better economy all game he was easily able to make more units and crush his push. This was basically the nail in the coffin for Thorzain.

[image loading]


Thanks for reading and I hope you enjoyed, if you liked this please check out my PvZ analysis with a build from MC and a build from Naniwahttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232007] http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232007[/url]. Thanks everyone and have a nice day.

I hope Tyler, MC, and all of the other Team Liquid players have a good showing at Dream hack and I wish them the best of luck. Also note I am not sure what the tags should be on this so i put both G and D because I think it is somewhere in the middle.
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
MK4512
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada938 Posts
June 18 2011 03:49 GMT
#2
Really great job! Thanks for analyzing these!
Chill: "Please let us know when you will be streaming yourself eating a hat so I can put it on the calendar. Thanks."
tuestresfat
Profile Joined December 2010
2555 Posts
June 18 2011 04:11 GMT
#3
great read.

thanks for taking your time to make this thread
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
June 18 2011 04:28 GMT
#4
thanks
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
sickoota
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada918 Posts
June 18 2011 04:35 GMT
#5
I feel like this play is somewhat standard, especially in Korea. I wince when commentators call this style all-in (though there are definitely all in versions of this build).
I could spend a while with that smile
Swad1000
Profile Joined January 2011
United States366 Posts
June 18 2011 04:36 GMT
#6
One of the things that almost wiped mc out was thorzains emps. The fact he upgraded attack to 3 before getting even one armor upgrade confused me.

Yeah attack really benefits colossus but he gets them so late in this build like 19mns or something.

How is it better to get attack first instead of armor in this build.Yeah he gets alot of blink stalkers but his zealots get fried as soon as they engage.
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
June 18 2011 04:52 GMT
#7
On June 18 2011 13:36 Swad1000 wrote:
One of the things that almost wiped mc out was thorzains emps. The fact he upgraded attack to 3 before getting even one armor upgrade confused me.

Yeah attack really benefits colossus but he gets them so late in this build like 19mns or something.

How is it better to get attack first instead of armor in this build.Yeah he gets alot of blink stalkers but his zealots get fried as soon as they engage.

i think he goes attack first because he is not quite as zealot heavy.
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
June 18 2011 04:52 GMT
#8
thank you for hthis!
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
EliteReplay
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Dominican Republic913 Posts
June 18 2011 04:54 GMT
#9
thanks very nice keep them coming!
if play random i can't call any race imba?
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
June 18 2011 04:57 GMT
#10
On June 18 2011 13:35 sickoota wrote:
I feel like this play is somewhat standard, especially in Korea. I wince when commentators call this style all-in (though there are definitely all in versions of this build).

I have not seen anyone but tyler do a 1-1 6wg and yes cutting probes at 38 is all in... You don't do damage you are in trouble
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
Speake
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States494 Posts
June 18 2011 05:20 GMT
#11
I agree with yamulo, it's really quite funny the praise these "protoss styles" are getting, when in reality it's just another crazy allin. the sight of 2 forges will probably throw a lot of terrans off and make them believe it isnt allin.

The forge + twilight style is actually the style that I, as a terran, find hardest to play against
tQ.Speake
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
June 18 2011 05:31 GMT
#12
On June 18 2011 14:20 unSpeake wrote:
I agree with yamulo, it's really quite funny the praise these "protoss styles" are getting, when in reality it's just another crazy allin. the sight of 2 forges will probably throw a lot of terrans off and make them believe it isnt allin.

The forge + twilight style is actually the style that I, as a terran, find hardest to play against

only the first build is an all in, but it is not AS all in a standard 6gate
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
GomJabbar
Profile Joined February 2011
United States161 Posts
June 18 2011 08:03 GMT
#13
I'm intrigued by the forge-twilight style. What are people's experience with going for charge+armor instead of blink+attack? I suppose it's weaker to medivac harass but perhaps stronger in straight-up fights early? At what point (if ever) do you throw down a 2nd forge typically?
ohampatu
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1448 Posts
June 18 2011 14:36 GMT
#14
@GomJabbar


I open early 2nd base with 5 gates and twilight/forge. Then i go blink if i see massing rines, or charge if i see other play. If im opening stalkers i use forge for attack, if im opening chargelots i go armor.

I normally drop the 2nd forge when both my 2 bases are fully saturated, or i drop it with the additional 3 gates im dropping when i take my 3rd.
I am become death, for I am the destroyer of worlds.....You will be missed KT Violet!!!
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
June 18 2011 15:04 GMT
#15
I vastly prefer the MC version of doing this but it requires more skill to pull off. His later robo and heavier use of sentries early on is much better against MM play from terran, it allows for more pressure and a safer expand basically but has much more trouble against unconventional play because of the high sentry count and lack of good scouting. MC has the game knowledge to pull it off though as he often adapts very well to what he see's, for example against gasless Terran opening he often just throws down the nexus before the 3rd pylon (idling his gateway). Likewise against potential tech openings you need to stop at 3 sentries max I think and get that robo asap and just convert into zealot/stalker/immortal/sentry. His heavy preference for sentries have caused him some losses against unconventional play in the past imo, like losing vs jinro's mech.

The heavy gateway style is very popular for a reason in korea and the reason imo is just the map pool. At big maps colossus pressure sucks and a heavy gateway style makes it much easier to get a third as you get blink faster. MC rarely seems to go double forge and even stranger seems to favor attack upgrades over armor heavily which i simply don't understand. Double forge seems a fantastic match with the heavy gateway style simply because it allows the best use for chronoboosts, also armor and attack are nearly equal in power so i just don't get why he often favors +2 attack over +1 armor. (though i agree +1 attack is better then +1 armor given his stalker heavier style).

The decision between colo and ht later on is just dependant on what you see from T and the map imo. Ghost play obviously favors you to go colossi while heavy medivac play favors HT a bit.
Terran on the other hand will prefer to go ghosts before medivac against this gateway style imo, there is no real need for vikings early so getting medivacs a bit later won't matter too much. At the same time ghosts are obviously really good against the heavy sentry that is needed for this pure gateway style, there are plenty of pro games out there where P randomly loses to a couple of ghosts EMPing all the sentries. Ghosts are also a minor backup plan against the DT harass.
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
June 18 2011 15:18 GMT
#16
On June 19 2011 00:04 Markwerf wrote:
I vastly prefer the MC version of doing this but it requires more skill to pull off. His later robo and heavier use of sentries early on is much better against MM play from terran, it allows for more pressure and a safer expand basically but has much more trouble against unconventional play because of the high sentry count and lack of good scouting. MC has the game knowledge to pull it off though as he often adapts very well to what he see's, for example against gasless Terran opening he often just throws down the nexus before the 3rd pylon (idling his gateway). Likewise against potential tech openings you need to stop at 3 sentries max I think and get that robo asap and just convert into zealot/stalker/immortal/sentry. His heavy preference for sentries have caused him some losses against unconventional play in the past imo, like losing vs jinro's mech.

The heavy gateway style is very popular for a reason in korea and the reason imo is just the map pool. At big maps colossus pressure sucks and a heavy gateway style makes it much easier to get a third as you get blink faster. MC rarely seems to go double forge and even stranger seems to favor attack upgrades over armor heavily which i simply don't understand. Double forge seems a fantastic match with the heavy gateway style simply because it allows the best use for chronoboosts, also armor and attack are nearly equal in power so i just don't get why he often favors +2 attack over +1 armor. (though i agree +1 attack is better then +1 armor given his stalker heavier style).

The decision between colo and ht later on is just dependant on what you see from T and the map imo. Ghost play obviously favors you to go colossi while heavy medivac play favors HT a bit.
Terran on the other hand will prefer to go ghosts before medivac against this gateway style imo, there is no real need for vikings early so getting medivacs a bit later won't matter too much. At the same time ghosts are obviously really good against the heavy sentry that is needed for this pure gateway style, there are plenty of pro games out there where P randomly loses to a couple of ghosts EMPing all the sentries. Ghosts are also a minor backup plan against the DT harass.


I have actually always used the K-style MC PvT though I use a 1 gate fe instead. I never knew blink stalkers were so good vs T lol.

Yeah ghosts are pretty troublesome. You have to feedback first, then forcefield the units, and then storm the crap out of them while they're bunched up. Getting all your sentries hit by 1 EMP while you're moving out is really annoying lol.
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
Evantas
Profile Joined December 2010
Singapore61 Posts
June 18 2011 17:21 GMT
#17
On June 18 2011 17:03 GomJabbar wrote:
I'm intrigued by the forge-twilight style. What are people's experience with going for charge+armor instead of blink+attack? I suppose it's weaker to medivac harass but perhaps stronger in straight-up fights early? At what point (if ever) do you throw down a 2nd forge typically?


Charge/armour is better vs. heavy tank/marine compositions, as the tanks will cause heavy friendly fire no matter how you cut it. In this situation it is also good to get Archons to support.

Problem is that Terran can easily transit to hellions. In general blink stalkers are much more versatile.
Naohia
Dariusz
Profile Joined May 2011
Poland657 Posts
June 18 2011 17:50 GMT
#18
On June 18 2011 17:03 GomJabbar wrote:
I'm intrigued by the forge-twilight style. What are people's experience with going for charge+armor instead of blink+attack? I suppose it's weaker to medivac harass but perhaps stronger in straight-up fights early? At what point (if ever) do you throw down a 2nd forge typically?


You need zealots to tank bio army demage and charge + armor upgrade makes it much more effective, otherwise your gateway army stands no chance against MMM. Stalkers and sentries evaporate to any kind of bio ball.
skipdog172
Profile Joined June 2010
United States331 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-23 18:12:19
June 23 2011 18:10 GMT
#19
On June 19 2011 00:04 Markwerf wrote:
I vastly prefer the MC version of doing this but it requires more skill to pull off. His later robo and heavier use of sentries early on is much better against MM play from terran, it allows for more pressure and a safer expand basically but has much more trouble against unconventional play because of the high sentry count and lack of good scouting. MC has the game knowledge to pull it off though as he often adapts very well to what he see's, for example against gasless Terran opening he often just throws down the nexus before the 3rd pylon (idling his gateway). Likewise against potential tech openings you need to stop at 3 sentries max I think and get that robo asap and just convert into zealot/stalker/immortal/sentry. His heavy preference for sentries have caused him some losses against unconventional play in the past imo, like losing vs jinro's mech.

The heavy gateway style is very popular for a reason in korea and the reason imo is just the map pool. At big maps colossus pressure sucks and a heavy gateway style makes it much easier to get a third as you get blink faster. MC rarely seems to go double forge and even stranger seems to favor attack upgrades over armor heavily which i simply don't understand. Double forge seems a fantastic match with the heavy gateway style simply because it allows the best use for chronoboosts, also armor and attack are nearly equal in power so i just don't get why he often favors +2 attack over +1 armor. (though i agree +1 attack is better then +1 armor given his stalker heavier style).

The decision between colo and ht later on is just dependant on what you see from T and the map imo. Ghost play obviously favors you to go colossi while heavy medivac play favors HT a bit.
Terran on the other hand will prefer to go ghosts before medivac against this gateway style imo, there is no real need for vikings early so getting medivacs a bit later won't matter too much. At the same time ghosts are obviously really good against the heavy sentry that is needed for this pure gateway style, there are plenty of pro games out there where P randomly loses to a couple of ghosts EMPing all the sentries. Ghosts are also a minor backup plan against the DT harass.


I've had the same experiences with the early heavy sentry comp. Either I lose to something unconventional like a Thor rush where my sentries feel useless. OR, I mess up my forcefields slightly on the initial engagement vs. bio and my force of 7 sentries/4 stalkers or 7 sentries/1 stalker/3 zealots can't hold up. Once I get past this point in the game, I seem to have great success.

I've been scouring replays trying to find a 1gate expand where I feel safer against early bio play or unconventional 1 base all-ins. Although it does seem that the sentry heavy play is actually safest against bio, it puts you on the spot to cast a perfect series of forcefields or lose, and that just isn't playing to my strengths.
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