|
Overview
This build was designed for PvP, though I imagine can be used against other races as well as a type of fake 4 gate. The idea behind this build is to get two extremely fast warpgates in order to gain an army value advantage before your opponent gets warpgate finished. I tried for a long time to come up with a 2 gate build that accomplishes this in the new patch, but defender's advantage would always thwart my builds I created. Then I tune into GSTL one day and some MVP member created a much more clever build than the ones I constructed! If executed properly you should be able to get 4 Stalkers 1 Zealot to the enemy ramp @ 5:25.
I was a bit weary of posting this build, since I'm the only one I know of that knows about it. However I decided to share it since I've had my fun being the only one knowing about it on ladder, and haven't posted any builds up recently. I hope you enjoy it as well!
The Opening Build
- 9 Pylon
- 10 Gateway
- Chronoboost Probes
- 12 Assimilator --> Scout Probe
- 15 Cybernetics Core
- 16 Zealot*
- 18 Pylon
- @100% Cybernetics Core: Warpgate Research (Chrono'd); Stalker**
- @22 Supply or 1/3 WG Research: 2nd Gateway
- @100% Stalker: 2nd Stalker
- 26 Proxy Pylon
- @100% WG Tech: Warpin 2 rounds of Stalkers from WarpGates. Chrono Probes or Gates***
- After second warpin round of Stalkers: Add tech of choice; recommend Robotics
- * MVP_Tails attacked across the map with this Zealot, which was actually rather intelligent. Since Tails got a 10 Gate and scouted how much later Hongun's Gate was, there is no way Tails can actually lose his Zealot. There is also the offchance that the Zealot can get into the base uncontested or make your enemy's macro flounder. I recommend doing this as well.
- ** You must have constant chrono on this WG research until it finishes!
- *** Depending on how you want to play the build you will chrono your gates for more aggression, or probes in order to get ahead in economy.
You need to use your first Zealot and Stalker to prevent your proxy pylon from dieing! Study how Tails keeps his Proxy Pylon alive, and starts being really aggressive once his second stalker from his gateway arrives.
Followup
There are a few ways to transition from this build. You can try to kill your opponent and actually follow up with a 4 gate, you can use your army advantage from your 2 gate to pick off some probes, thus putting you in a lead to do whatever you want, or you can fake a 4 gate by pretending to contain at the bottom of the ramp, while actually laying down a tech building of your choice. I have even been able to fake a 4 gate and expand, following up with a huge mass of gateway units and warp prisms.
I recommend laying down a Robotics facility after trying to kill some enemy probes, like Tails did vs Hongun. I've found that going straight to Colossus against a bad player is actually a bad thing to do. A smart player will be extremely wary of attacking you after that fiasco, and be afraid of venturing up your ramp. However I've had players that don't understand the game just attack me with blink and allin in desparity, and kill me because I went for super fast Colossus. As Tails did I recommend going for immortals if you open robo, as they seem much more robust and less vulnerable at that stage of the game.
Probe Desparity
You will have slightly less probes with this build than with a standard opening. This is because you are trading those two probes or so in order to gain a large army advantage, to which you can use to get yourself ahead in both probe count and tech. Be warned that if you have poor execution you will not win any games with this build -it's rather technical and relies pretty heavily on a decent level of competence from the user.
Building Placement (in base)
Take note of how Tails sets up his initial buildings. He places them at the side of his ramp, most likely to help against a counter 4 Gate in the event that the enemy does decide to be counter aggressive. This is probably something you should try to copy, and Tails must have done it out of necessity or for some good reason (probably just so they are in the way or warpins).
Your proxy pylon needs to be in a location near the ramp, but also accessible to you by your initial Stalkers/Zealot. You need to be able to harass the opponent's units in the event they find your pylon to prevent it from being taken down!
Key Notes
- You want to have a Proxy Pylon up, 2 Gateways, 2 Stalkers and a Zealot complete right when WarpGate Research finishes!
- If you encounter the triple stalker opening, then you have to be very careful with laying down the proxy pylons, and might want to actually just get 2 proxy pylons laid down! It is still possible to thwart the triple stalker opening, as you'll have 4 Stalkers and a Zealot to their 3 Stalkers, however if they get a Sentry out before you can get up the ramp, you're best off just faking a 4 Gate and returning to your base.
- Remember, you are trading a little economy for an army value advantage in this build. You must use this army advantage to get ahead of your opponent!
+ Show Spoiler [Screen Shots] +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1IH76.png) Tails sniping off 3 probes just as Hongun is finishing WarpGate tech.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AxkqL.png) Tails Warping in 2 Stalkers from his 2 Gates outside of Hongun's Base.
Replays and VODs
- X - Set 1: MVP_Tails for Hongun.Prime
- More replays will be added -it's really hard to get a good PvP lately due to work/personal matters and NO TOSS ON LADDER. PM me if you want me to own you with this build so we can get a replay
|
sounds very interesting when i read the whole post, starting sc now to try the build  ill edit and report afterwards
|
An interesting build, I will have to show my brother, as he has been looking for something other then 4gating in PvP. Nicely written.
|
Very interesting build, as now when you scout a 10-gate and stockpiled chronoboost you have to consider if he is going a true 4-gate or a 2-gate fake.
However, it seems like you can definitely tell what this build is once the battle starts, because you can see him warping in 2-stalkers instead of the usual 4 with the 4-gate.
Is it possible for your opponent to have a sentry in time to stop the zeal/4 stalkers from walking up your ramp?
|
Wowwwww I hate you so much. This will make scouting hard 4 gates so much more annoying T_T
But also the build seems really fun, going to try it when I get home.
|
I just gave it a try on the ladder, here is the replay
http://www.2shared.com/file/WeaaHJm4/2gate_collosus.html
Dont look for mistakes or anything i might did wrong. Tho i was able to fake the 4gate but got abit greedy so los tsome stuff unnessary  tho i forced him to make alot of sentrys cuz he was teching hard apperently (as i saw later) so by seeing 4-5 sentrys i knew i could rush collosus since his own tech was heavily delayed by the sentries. at the moment i warped in my first 2 stlalkers i got my 2nd gass and instand threw down my robo when i saw i couldnt be able to break his ramp. i felt safe to get my expo aswell after competely dieing his DT tech.
I guess im going with this build for the comming week and try to get good with it
1100~master EU
|
Nice guide as always Cecil. I think I've got a post in all of them saying that. ^^
Now I've got to be that guy: what beats this, besides the same build? Because if you just invented a new 4 gate I swear I will kill you.
|
On June 17 2011 05:45 Indrium wrote:Nice guide as always Cecil. I think I've got a post in all of them saying that. ^^ Now I've got to be that guy: what beats this, besides the same build? Because if you just invented a new 4 gate I swear I will kill you.
The three Stalker opening is a good contender and forces the 2 Gater to be pretty skilled to pull it off. Other than that, idk because I've never faced it. Though I would try to produce units out of 3 Gateways while chronoing warpgate tech, following up with Blink (which is what Hongun was probably going to try, but he had pretty bad micro that was most likely due to the shock value of the 2 Gate build).
Edit: And thanks, I appreciate you saying that in my threads <3
|
I would guess that an actual hard 4gate starting with a 10 gate would be a pretty good counter to this, as his warpgates will finish up no more than 10 seconds after yours and you will be quickly swamped by units.
|
On June 17 2011 05:54 giuocob wrote:
I would guess that an actual hard 4gate starting with a 10 gate would be a pretty good counter to this, as his warpgates will finish up no more than 10 seconds after yours and you will be quickly swamped by units.
If you don't die, then sure. 4 Stalkers and a Zealot beats 2 Stalkers and a Zealot any day. Edit: Actually you can get 6-8 Stalkers out before WG finishes depending on Chrono usage.
|
I've been doing an extremely similar build, where I go 11 gate into 3 gates. The end result is that I also end up with 4 stalker 1 zeal (I don't make 2nd stalker out of initial gateway), but at 5:30 instead of 5:25 and with a slightly better economy. The way I play it I actually get a 2nd gas right after my 3rd gateway and continue making probes, so what usually ends up happening is that I come out ahead in econ even though I'm behind by a probe or 2 at the beginning (I don't even need to do any damage with my 4 stalker 1 zeal, it's just there to put on pressure and make the opponent cut probes).
The problem with this build is that you literally have only a few seconds to do damage with your slightly bigger army before his warpgates come online. Oftentimes this is really difficult, especially on maps where it's hard to put a proxy pylon near his ramp, and also on maps where the distance between the ramp and his mineral line is far (then it takes a few extra seconds to get into his mineral line to kill a probe or 2 before you have to run away).
You really absolutely have to have perfect execution in order to for this build to be effective (don't miss chronos on warpgate, have good control of your initial zealot + stalker + probe, must get proxy pylon up, etc.). Every second you lose is huge. I know that that usually goes without saying, but honestly I've never used any other build that relies on being perfect as much as this one. Void ray rush in PvT and your void gets supply blocked by 10 seconds? Meh doesn't matter. DT rush in PvZ and your proxy pylon gets killed so you lose 20 seconds walking across the map? Not the end of the world. Your chrono is off by 2 seconds in this build? You're fucked. Might as well pull an IdrA and leave the game right there.
|
On June 17 2011 06:12 Anihc wrote:
You really absolutely have to have perfect execution in order to for this build to be effective (don't miss chronos on warpgate, have good control of your initial zealot + stalker + probe, must get proxy pylon up, etc.). Every second you lose is huge. I know that that usually goes without saying, but honestly I've never used any other build that relies on being perfect as much as this one. Void ray rush in PvT and your void gets supply blocked by 10 seconds? Meh doesn't matter. DT rush in PvZ and your proxy pylon gets killed so you lose 20 seconds walking across the map? Not the end of the world. Your chrono is off by 2 seconds in this build? You're fucked. Might as well pull an IdrA and leave the game right there.
Yeah that is really true. I noted in the OP that you have to have a certain level of competence to pull it off. I lost a good number of games because of subtle mistakes that slowed me down by 20 or so seconds. 20 seconds late on this build and you lose. That means a slight supply block at the wrong time and a late chrono. Hell that could even mean one large late chrono.
|
Just a nit, 9 pylon 10 gate is strictly worse than 10 pylon 10 gate.
|
What if you attack the pylons powering his gateways instead of his probes?
|
On June 17 2011 06:40 galivet wrote:
What if you attack the pylons powering his gateways instead of his probes?
Imagine you have time to kill a pylon. That costs the Protoss 100 minerals for a replacement, probable supply block, and might unpower something.
Imagine you have the same amount of time to kill probes. That will be what, 4-8 probes? 200-400 minerals and lost mining potential? Most of the time probes will be better killed.
|
On June 17 2011 06:44 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:40 galivet wrote:
What if you attack the pylons powering his gateways instead of his probes? Imagine you have time to kill a pylon. That costs the Protoss 100 minerals for a replacement, and might unpower something. Imagine you have the same amount of time to kill probes. That will be what, 4-8 probes? 200-400 minerals and lost mining potential? Most of the time probes will be better killed.
Pylon is actually a great target because usually that will supply block them, giving you more time to kill stuff as well as warping in additional units. The problem is that it takes awhile to kill that pylon and you don't always have time to do that especially when he still has at least 2 stalker 1 zealot sitting around.
|
On June 17 2011 06:50 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:44 CecilSunkure wrote:On June 17 2011 06:40 galivet wrote:
What if you attack the pylons powering his gateways instead of his probes? Imagine you have time to kill a pylon. That costs the Protoss 100 minerals for a replacement, and might unpower something. Imagine you have the same amount of time to kill probes. That will be what, 4-8 probes? 200-400 minerals and lost mining potential? Most of the time probes will be better killed. Pylon is actually a great target because usually that will supply block them, giving you more time to kill stuff as well as warping in additional units. The problem is that it takes awhile to kill that pylon and you don't always have time to do that especially when he still has at least 2 stalker 1 zealot sitting around.
Yeah if the importunity arises, kill it. Most of the time probes are better targets though.
|
nice build, its the same concept to one i made a month or so before wg nerf that i still use. Im stealing it if u dont mind.
The thing is that mine relies on cronoing the 4 stalkers outa 2 gates while researching wg without any crono. So this is def better on bigger maps while mine gets the 4 stalkers to his ramp faster if its closer spawns - smaller maps. a big difference though is that this one fakes a 4 gate while mine getting 12 gas 13 gate doesnt, but it does force the same defensive reaction coz their scout is seeing how ur cronoing the units outa ur 2 gates for some inminent pressure.
If u guys are interested ill post the bo for some discussion.
|
what do you think about 10 pylon 10 gateway instead of 9 pylon. You can get your 10th probe slightly faster this way and you should have about 150 minerals when pylon finishes
|
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Correct, if you're getting a 10 gate there's no reason at all to get a 9 pylon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
