EPTjust got a pm with an invite
this would be my first mafia ever but I will try my best.
TL Mafia XL
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
just got a pm with an invite this would be my first mafia ever but I will try my best. | ||
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Jimbooo, we do have to lynch somebody. Being "hasty" isn't really a concern. And somebody with next to no evidence against them is a better lynch than everyone else with no evidence against them at all. Still, 48 hours yet. | ||
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A few thoughts: There are 8 mafia but do we know how much killing power they have? If 6 normally get 3 kills/night would it be sensible to extrapolate that 8 get 4? | ||
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On June 05 2011 15:24 omgCRAZY wrote: That is true. I have only looked over one other Mafia game so I don't have a lot of experience if players vote and unvote a lot over the course of a day or not, after the few responses we got from Freelancer265 I did do an EBWOP saying how his subsequent responses added to his suspicion. Either this should be linked in the first few posts or people should start saying what their acronyms mean when they first use them. They only make things faster if they're understood. And yeah - freeloader's first post was only mildly suspicious (although it was mildly suspicious) but his subsequent ones were rather more so. Also, he's probably still online and they're currently the best we have to go on. So I'm gonna vote but change in the next 24 hours or so if someone more suspicious comes up. I suspect that most of the mafia are gonna be trying to lay low, post only "check-in" posts and whatnot. So keep your eyes peeled for that sort of thing - although, early on, that kinda posting might just mean its midnight and people want to go to bed (so gtsrs and 35spike1 are off the hook for now). | ||
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On June 05 2011 15:36 iGrok wrote: Those people who have already voted are acting too hastily. Is it really too hasty if you plan on (probably) changing your vote? I'm honestly asking. Also, you sound like you're aomewhat experienced, is that right? | ||
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On June 05 2011 18:31 Kurumi wrote: No. Scum wants Town to mislynch. Scum wants Town not to think about other suspects. Scum wants to make Town jump on one bandwagon and deny EVERY discussion about anything else. They are doing that,not only but they're advocating that as a good thing. With regards to the Freeloader situation: a. read the posts. I wasn't advocating mislynching. Lafali, admittedly, somewhat was: On June 05 2011 15:16 Lafali wrote: His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours. b. As far as "not thinking about other suspects" there WERE no other suspects, this was page one and noone else seemed remotely scummy. c. there wasn't discussion about anything else and nobody was stopping anybody from talking about anything. So freeloader got accused on questionable evidence, and then defended himself in a somewhat suspicious fashion. So a couple of noobies (myself included) voted for him early on. And the Kurumi comes in and makes up shit about what we're doing that has only a grain of truth in it, and treats myself and Lafali (who both voted for freeloader) as proven scum based on 2 and 4 posts (or so). Then, later, Vain posts + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 00:26 Vain wrote: On June 06 2011 00:07 Kurumi wrote: My dumbness meter went over 9000. Before saying "HURR DURR YOU DID NOTHING" read my posts. I brought evidence why I think they're scum. On June 05 2011 18:07 Kurumi wrote: What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets. ##vote Treadmill He was actually saying that some evidence for a lynch was better as a random lynch with no suspicion. now i would like to see your compelling evidence and accusations because frankly i have only seen you throwing out accusations and calling people noobtown. pointing out that Kurumi's being silly so Kurumi replies with On June 06 2011 00:27 Kurumi wrote: @Vain Let aprudds defend himself. which is dumb because a. nobody was talking about aprudds - his only relation was that he had been suspicious of freeloader (presumably Kurumi meant me or Lafali, but why conflate us?). And b. an argument is an argument, no matter who it comes from. Either Kurumi is paranoid or he's scum defending scum, trying to derail any argument against freeloader. I'm leaning towards the former, because apparently he has a history of being like this, but a DT should check him out tonight. Leaving my vote on freeloader 'cause there's noone with a better case against them. That doesn't speak to strength of the case against freeloader but rather to the weakness of any other case. (not voting Kurumi 'cause if he is scum, then freeloader probably is too). | ||
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On June 05 2011 18:07 Kurumi wrote: What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets. ##vote Treadmill On June 06 2011 05:54 Kurumi wrote: We can't no lynch. There needs to be a lynch every Day. o.O? | ||
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Crazy actually has a couple of posts from last night. Use the profile button. Check post history. You both are saying a whole lot of nothing (although, there isn't really much to say this early). | ||
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On June 06 2011 11:41 Aril wrote: Heya, I don't think I'll be on tomorrow so I'm voting now. Care to explain your vote at all? | ||
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@CjrNinja Can you confirm that the role PM for mafia members spells out that mafia can communicate by PM? If this is true than obviously mafia wouldn't post that question and I'll change my vote from freeloader. Otherwise, though, he seems even more scummy to me now. I didn't vote for him cause he asked a silly question, it was how he replied to scrutiny. Since then, he hasn't posted in the thread at all. And I can confirm that he's been on TL - check his post history, he's posted a whole bunch in today's MLG live report. Either he's scum and waiting for suspicion to die down or he's town and has given up and resigned himself to getting lynched. | ||
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On June 06 2011 12:54 CjrNinja wrote: I can't confirm what the actual role PM said for mafia members. But looking back through this thread I did find: So it's already been addressed during the signup stage. Freeloader was probably just lazy and didn't read through the entire thread. Hrrrm. That doesn't stop him from being lazy mafia. If mafia members received the info about being allowed to PM in their role PM, then only town wouldn't definitely know that and so only a town would ask. BUT if the information is not explicit in the role PMs, then town and mafia could equally easily not know (and not read fully the OP) and so someone asking could still be either. Does that make sense? I guess the only people who'd know for certain which it is would be the mafia (who won't show us their role PM to prove it) and the mods (who won't say cause it'd affect the game). Doesn't escape the fact that freeloader, who has been in the lead to be lynched, has been online without posting here at all. Which makes me suspicious. | ||
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that was @CjrNinja | ||
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Okay, fair enough. I'll unvote freeloader for now. A bunch of other names have come up, with better or worse cases against them Here's what I think: Jimbooo - seems more inexperienced than scum. I think that's the consensus so let's focus on other people. cherubael - I do not understand people's suspicion of him (literally don't understand. If you're voting him, please explain why). Kairo voted for him but even seemed confused in his post: + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 09:56 Kairo wrote: FL625s berhaviour is slightly suspicious, but I find the behaviour of cherubael to be more suspicious. His posts have been reeking of bloodlust, and he have been throwing accusations around like they were candy. ----- But then again, he might just be a bit eager... Also: I also agree on This is nowhere near waterproof, but I feel that I have nowhere better to put a vote at this time. Since it is likely that FL625 is the one that will get lynched today, we will get a flip. If he flips mafia I will conclude that cherubael is most likely non-mafia (a.k.a townie in this game, since it does not have third party roles); but if he flips townie (more likely imo) I will still view cherubael as highly suspicious. On a sidenote: This game is mind-bending. I am too chicken to suggest that people change their vote from FL to cherubael, since it still is most likely that FL gets lynched, and there is a realistic chance that FL flips mafia. And if I had suggested that, it would paint a huge red cross on my back. And also by writing this, pointing out that I am afraid of death when the ideal mafia mindset is to be fearless of death for the benefit of the team can be considered as scummy. Gaah. If it is revealed afterwards that all mafia is lurking and that we are just a clueless chicken coop I will have to kick myself in the back. TheAwesomeAll - I don't really understand the case against him either. He posted a list of lurkers. Yay. But he also addressed the only thing that had been discussed up until then (freeloader). I don't think its fair to say someone's trying to post while avoiding talking substantively when there's not really any substance to talk about anyways. amazingxkcd - the case against him is mostly this post: On June 06 2011 02:56 amazingxkcd wrote: It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it which is admittedly - weird. Reposting the "newbie guides" was in response to a question by rookie44. I want to see more of his posts and how he votes, to get a better sense of him. Lafali - saying "its OK to mislynch" could be scummy or it could be his honest opinion. Without knowing any playing history I don't think its possible to tell. grush57 - he has a better case against him than most others. Saying On June 06 2011 04:12 grush57 wrote: Im not inactive, I just dont feel like anybody can accuse this early. and then joining the fl625 bandwagon and saying On June 06 2011 04:21 grush57 wrote: Yea true, I stupidly joined the bandwagon to lynch freeloader from his posts. seems more than a bit weird. Also he hasn't really offered his opinion on anything - those two posts are literally all that he said on freeloader despite voting for him. Alderan made a decent case a little while ago. _________________________________________________ I'm not sorry for "bandwagonning" freeloader early on 'cause we got some discussion going and got people posting (which is always good for the town). And I still think there's a decent case against him. Two people I think need to talk more are Benjef who voted, then changed his vote, then made one post about it without really saying anything, and Aril, who voted Kurumi and only said On June 06 2011 11:41 Aril wrote: Heya, I don't think I'll be on tomorrow so I'm voting now. by way of explanation. | ||
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First off, its a big long post showing he's been paying attention to the thread. But he doesn't address anything except the arguments against him. That, in my mind, is the biggest strike against him - if he was town, he'd be concerned with more than just his own survival, he'd want to find out who the mafia are. If he was a good town player he'd talk about some of the other accusations, some of the other discussions - especially since he's indicated that he's been following the thread. And also because, if you look at the last few pages, he hasn't been suspect number one for a while. Second, freeloader625 sounds like he's trying really hard to sound unconcerned about the allegations against him. That doesn't jive with writing a big post that has no purpose other than defending himself. He's trying to defend himself without sounding like he's defending himself (mostly by jumping on DeMorcerf's and CjrNinja's explanations without really providing his own) - a scummy play for sure. What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may. I take it as meaning: freeloader625, you are scum. So I'm gonna put that vote I just took off of you back on. | ||
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I'd tend to agree with the points that omgCrazy made with regards to gtsrs - iGrok. Laying out how many possible blues there are isn't fishing for blues by any stretch of the imagination. gtsrs looks a little scummy - though he could just be dumb. They could both be town, or it could be iGrok town and gtsrs mafia, I don't see it the other way around. The one little worry I have is that BOTH might be mafia and pulling a total mental mindfuck on us. Lastly: + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2011 17:45 gtrsrs wrote: freeloader is obvious town but everyone is bandwagoning on him we need to get some votes on other people. it's a psychological thing. if you see that everyone has voted for freeloader you're going to vote for him too so you don't look fishy. if there are some votes spread around you're more likely to vote for someone you think is actually mafia i initially FoS'd iGrok because of the haiku thing and his horribly pretentious posts. i felt like they were derailing the thread and i didn't have a good read on anyone else after he tried to incriminate kurumi who is being extremely pro-town, i double my suspicions that iGrok is the mafia we want. he's trying to use pretty formatting to make it look like his wild guess is better than anyone else's wild guess - he's intentionally trying to mislead the town. i got a lucky guess and FoS'd the right guy, it's quite clear. don't believe me? help me pressure him and watch him crack fishing for blues is scummy, he's setting a bad example. i don't see how public knowledge of how many blues there (could be) are could ever help the town. he's doing the mafia's job for them, right in front of our eyes. i don't have a personal vendetta by any means. in fact, you'll notice it's he who is trying to minimize me in the eyes of the other townies by pointing out that i'm not "experienced" on TL mafia, and blatantly calling my posts bad. A. Why is freeloader obviously town? You throw that out there without any back-up. I admit (and have admitted) that myself and a few others were very hasty and did bandwagon him early on - because of inexperience. But there's been nothing since to exonerate him. B. Your argument against iGrok is "vote for him and he'll drop scumtells". Which is stupid - he's an experienced player, that's not gonna happen. C. You haven't actually addressed any of his arguments about Kurumi, you've just said "he's a good guy, trust me I know, and since iGrok fingered him iGrok must be scum!" | ||
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I just woke up, and am reading the thread (that explains my recent inactivity). I'm reading the thread and will have something to post once I'm done. | ||
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Now, what if by some miracle, Youngminii was lynched and flipped green, or worse, vigilante? What would that have said about Foolishness? Think hard and carefully here, because this is a logic issue that really has plagued the town in so many TL games, especially this one. At its core is the question: what does "lynching for information" actually mean? The lynch outcome alone would have said nothing about Foolishness! If Foolishness is veteran, how does he have any definite knowledge of what Youngminii is? He doesn't, therefore he can only do his best and try to figure out YM's role from the tools he has. That in itself does not distinguish him from Godfather Foolishness one bit. The key distinction between the two is to look at how he got Youngminii lynched and his overall play, not that he got Youngminii lynched. The latter fact, while not entirely irrelevant, is nowhere near sufficient enough on its own to warrant a lynch (and everyone knows if YM had popped up vigi Foolishness would've been autokilled the next day). Thus it would be nonsensical to lynch YM because you think it will give the most information (the information is next to useless). The only reason to lynch YM, or virtually anyone ever, is to kill mafia. That's it. There's a lot of wrong-headed thinking going around this game and I want to try and address some of it. A. as the quote above says, if Mr X accuses Mr Y and Mr Y is lynched and flips town, it doesn't say anything about Mr X. He could be mafia, or he could've made an honest mistake and be town. B. related to [A], look at the content of people's arguments, not just who they're accusing! If someone accuses someone else with a decent explanation, than even if you disagree with his arguments he probably isn't mafia. It's more suspicious if the reasoning is crappy, though even then you may have misunderstood the reasons or the accuser may be a newbie or a moron. C. if someone changes their mind, they could be mafia. Or they could've just changed their mind. Again, read their posts. Look for their reasoning - and it could make sense to the poster even if it doesn't to you. People need to start reading posts more, and listening to peoples arguments rather than making their own (I'm as guilty as anyone on that). The town loses if we're all paranoid and flaming each other. | ||
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Oh god dammit Jackal, don't even start there. Don't accuse someone of being scum just because he disagrees with you. I do too, for that matter. Until we hear more from rookie44, see how (and when) he votes, there really isn't enough to say (well, imo). | ||
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