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So you know those protoss players who go 1 gate slightly earlier then normal with 1 zealot push... in to fast tech, then follow up by blocking ramp with probe/zealot or 2x zealot?
The following is the pure counter to it as zerg.
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=41070
Oddly enough, it's a dual gas trick build order...
Does it work? Yes it does. If you practice it, master it... it is definitely the proper play against the 1 gate tech. 2 gate, however, you want to be defending with defense due to the amount of lings you would have to defend with which will disrupt your economy.
That b.o. is
10 hatch (off gas trick)
9 lord
9 pool
Now, in the rep, I'm merely demonstrating the build order solo. I don't even need to show the b.o. against 1 gate.
Don't be lazy, test it for yourself, and realize how painfully obvious this b.o. is as the counter to the 1 gate.
You maintain a drone on each mineral patch, and 4 lings pop out at the proper time.
(Only problem is that the overlord should be fast enough to scout the opponent out so that you can maintain 1 drone per patch, but shhh, blizzard doesn't want you to know this)
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Owh, you again, still promoting the build 10 hatch. Pure counter? Stuffs like that dont really exist in BW.
Economic benefits of a 9 pool, zergling timing of a 12 hatch. How 'nice'.
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You got it backwards, sorry.
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Australia7069 Posts
On March 11 2011 00:59 AtlasMech wrote:So you know those protoss players who go 1 gate slightly earlier then normal with 1 zealot push... in to fast tech, then follow up by blocking ramp with probe/zealot or 2x zealot? The following is the pure counter to it as zerg. http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=41070Oddly enough, it's a dual gas trick build order... Does it work? Yes it does. If you practice it, master it... it is definitely the proper play against the 1 gate tech. 2 gate, however, you want to be defending with defense due to the amount of lings you would have to defend with which will disrupt your economy. That b.o. is 10 hatch (off gas trick) 9 lord 9 pool Now, in the rep, I'm merely demonstrating the build order solo. I don't even need to show the b.o. against 1 gate. Don't be lazy, test it for yourself, and realize how painfully obvious this b.o. is as the counter to the 1 gate. You maintain a drone on each mineral patch, and 4 lings pop out at the proper time. (Only problem is that the overlord should be fast enough to scout the opponent out so that you can maintain 1 drone per patch, but shhh, blizzard doesn't want you to know this)
so you go blind counter 1 gate tech and then they forge fe? What then?
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These posts are simply epic. I'm sincerely hoping it's someone trolling the BW forums.
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@Kiante
Of an actual decent game, good example...
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=41072
The point is...
Unless toss is next to you, you really don't know...
Just ask yourself 1 question...
Is rock paper scissors blind?
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On March 11 2011 01:12 AtlasMech wrote:@Kiante Of an actual decent game, good example... http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=41072The point is... Unless toss is next to you, you really don't know... Just ask yourself 1 question... Is rock paper scissors blind?
Im sorry i dont have anything else to share but... what?
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Rock paper scissors has 3 options with 1 viable win, 1 tie and 1 loss. PvZ has many different openings and your proposed strat is a "pure" counter to 1 option? There isn't even followup assuming your lings don't bust the ramp which isn't a garuntee.
So yes, this is very very very blind. Not to mention newb and bad so I figure might as well mention it incase there is one Z struggling against one base play and stumbles upon this then thinks it a solution.
This is just a quick 2 hatch ling attack being relabeled as a magic counter. Only on 2 player maps would this work - and P never 1 base on 2 player map. Matchpoint/HBR/Desti/Blue - one base play is considerably weaker than FE.
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On March 11 2011 01:12 AtlasMech wrote:@Kiante Of an actual decent game, good example... http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=41072The point is... Unless toss is next to you, you really don't know... Just ask yourself 1 question... Is rock paper scissors blind?
Uhh.....yeah. It is.
Except in the potential case of a known opponent where you can make a very good predication about what he can do. Even if this does counter 1 gate tech its in general an awful build vs FE or 2 gate and those two account for by far the majority of what zerg players will face. So I can do a build that might autowin 5% of my games, but otherwise puts me significantly behind in 95% of them. Tough choice.
(Only problem is that the overlord should be fast enough to scout the opponent out so that you can maintain 1 drone per patch, but shhh, blizzard doesn't want you to know this
What?
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Like I said, rock, paper, scissors is a blind game with "Chances"
The odds in question are, "how far away is your opponent? and is he going to risk doing a 1 gate tech zealot push strat"
If you know generally speaking how often your opponent does it, there is definitely a time and place to give it a chance...
If you are interesting in countering his blind attack in order to get an economic advantage out of the deal...
Note the 3rd hatch follow up after 4 ling.
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I am pretty much convinced on the fact that standard 12 hatch 11 pool 13 hatch (@3rd) opening that leads to 3 base spire into 5 hatch hydra doesn't need to be changed against a 1 gate tech. Follow ups to the opening, however, may need significant changes.
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On March 11 2011 01:27 AtlasMech wrote:
Like I said, rock, paper, scissors is a blind game with "Chances"
The odds in question are, "how far away is your opponent? and is he going to risk doing a 1 gate tech zealot push strat"
If you know generally speaking how often your opponent does it, there is definitely a time and place to give it a chance...
If you are interesting in countering his blind attack in order to get an economic advantage out of the deal...
Note the 3rd hatch follow up after 4 ling.
Okay, I'd buy that.
Now in most cases I think the times you'd want to do it are extremely infrequent but there could be some instances where you strongly suspect one gate tech.
The question is though, why not just 12 hatch? 1 gate tech isn't exactly a rush build, and one zealot isn't a huge deal. Maybe you run drones for 10 seconds or something, not the end of the world I don't think.
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Well on those 4 position maps, I think there are better odds for protoss to be nearer to you... which means, protoss is more likely to do it. (not sure what that other guy was talking about)
12 hatch pool against 1 gate would probably be viable if protoss was cross map.
But... you won't see me doing that against it. lol...
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On March 11 2011 01:10 HopLight wrote:
These posts are simply epic. I'm sincerely hoping it's someone trolling the BW forums.
I'm eagerly awaiting a mod's witty reply before closing this one. Perhaps this is all a ploy to showcase how awesome the mods are?
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What do you mean mean, what mod's?
Why would you close a thread that could really help the general public to understand zerg?
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Seriously noone should follow this guys advice at all, he only plays east, and he rages when he loses, always saying hes better then you and whatnot. His ZvT build is 10hatch 9overlord 9pool into this 2base build that consists of Queens, Lings, Hydras, and he then goes 2 base defiler, and when he loses states that the game is broken and Zerg has no answer for Marine + Medic. If u try to help him or explain what he can do, he bans you from his game and says your horrible, saying he was so much farther ahead then u in the game when he clearly is not.
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On March 11 2011 01:36 AtlasMech wrote:
Well on those 4 position maps, I think there are better odds for protoss to be nearer to you... which means, protoss is more likely to do it. (not sure what that other guy was talking about)
12 hatch pool against 1 gate would probably be viable if protoss was cross map.
But... you won't see me doing that against it. lol...
Well ignoring everything else...your OP is pretty awful. Its a link to a rep of a BO (not even against the build in question) saying go do it, it works. It offers no examples of relevant games, no explanation for why this is a better choice than other standard builds, no consideration of transition, no supporting pro games that show this build.
In short, you have no content. Saying here is a great build try it, it works if a pretty worthless OP. This results in thread closures
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Austin10833 Posts
On March 11 2011 00:59 AtlasMech wrote:
blizzard doesn't want you to know this
I'm closing this thread because you're posting Blizzard's legally protected thought-content. If you knew they didn't want us to know this, why are you telling us? You're going to get this whole site in trouble.
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EPT
