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A lot of people (zerg) complain that maps are unbalanced against zerg and that the map has a serious effect on the outcome of the game. Eg. close-positions Meta, JB, DQ.
From what people have said from both sides of the spectrum, you can either think that all the other maps are zerg-favored, or simply not zerg-unfavored. In other words, a map is good for zerg as long as it is balanced since no map gives zerg the advantage. I'm not really sure what to think of this, but it is interesting that it isn't very unanimously agreed upon.
So instead of complaing and arguing about why the maps are or aren't imbalanced, hypothetically, if you were going to design the most ridiculously imbalanced zerg map, what would it look like?
Some factors that might come into play:
+ Show Spoiler +Relatively closed off natural
Easily accessible third, fourth, (fifth?) base
No gold base?
Lot of air space behind mineral lines
Long rush distance
No chokes other than to natural entrance
No cliffs
Good amount of xel-naga towers
Air space in middle of map for overlord placements
Multiple attack paths
Many flanking routes
Wide open spaces
Difficult to contain middle of map
No islands
Lots of bases (4 player map?)
This is a kinda crappy map I made since I am no good with map design. But it's essentially a four player map with a huge open middle. Imagine that the distances were actually long enough to be safe, but the entire middle is completely open like a big blob. Would this kind of design be favorable to zerg?
![[image loading]](http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3284/mapgb.jpg)
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Pretty sure as long as the distances are so far that Zerg can relatively safely drone up and obtain quite a few bases to renew his army instantly - it is a Zerg favoured map.
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imo shattered temple would be ideal if u would bring back the islands
it would be zerg heaven^^
your map looks good for zerg, but make sure u make 2nd ramp big enough so zerg can pressure a fast expansion of protoss or terran :D
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I think any map with very narrow passages/ramps are going to hurt zerg alot. Also, Zerg needs to be able to defend 3 bases at MINIMUM, for it to be zerg favored. If its impossible to get a third, Zerg will always struggle with it. I also thought that the bigger the map, the more zerg favored it is, but after watching the GSL maps for about 3 weeks I have a hard time believing that is entirely true.
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I disagree about the closed-off natural. Zerg generally relies less on chokepoints for defence than the other races, and hence open naturals are likely easier to hold for zerg players than for the other races. A more important feature is having the natural close to the main, as it makes defending both bases early on easier, and allows the creep to be linked up much sooner.
I also think these half-sized expansions we've seen in some GSL maps may be beneficial to zerg. As a zerg player will need to build lots of hatcheries regardless, there is less disadvantage in claiming a half-sized expansion that there would be for protoss or terran.
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Huge map. 4 elevated bases in each corner with a wide ramp, rest of the map is completely flat and open. 6 mineral patches per base, high yield gas at every expansion. 10+ expansions across the edges of the map.
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Interesting topic, although I along with most other zerg players would argue, that any "zerg favored" map is actually just a non-zerg disfavored map.
The ability to expand freely and the availability of a wide open center is imo, exploitable by all races, not necessarily just zerg. Look at Terminus RE, probably one of the two most macro oriented maps there are, i haven't seen a zerg win a pro game there yet (although the sample size is still quite low).
Most people think that any non-rush map is zerg favored, but 95% of all zergs would most definitely disagree. I think being screwed on spawn locations is something that marks all zerg disfavored maps, so maybe that has something to do with it.
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I really love Peaks I think thats quite a balanced map for zerg. Yea they are some tight chokes but everything cant be zerg friendly just like how everything isnt terran/protoss friendly.
Its like Pokemon
Fire is good against Grass but not Water
And water is good against Fire but not grass
And grass is good against Water but not Fire.
Not meaning the pokemon are the races of starcraft but instead the situations and tactics of the game. like forcefields
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Why there should be map that is favorable for some race? why not make map that is equally favorable?
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Destination from BW would be pretty good. Medusa would also be a great map to see in the SC2 map pool.
For reference, in case you didn't play BW:
Destination
+ Show Spoiler +
Neo Medusa
+ Show Spoiler +
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Blistering Sands...
any map where they can abuse mobility and put severe pressure on you.
Expansions that are far away for most races to defend but easy for zerg because their units are so mobile. (Blistering sand's third expo for example"
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On March 10 2011 16:48 Axeinst wrote:
Why there should be map that is favorable for some race? why not make map that is equally favorable?
Well my main goal is to combat complaining about maps being zerg unfavored by going the complete opposite to find out what zerg actually wants in a map and go from there. In order to make an equally favorable map, you have to know what is favorable for each race, and to be completely honest, even though I play zerg, I'm not entirely sure what is actually "zerg-favored" and not just not unfair for zerg.
Hopefully this can become discussion without arguing about complaints about maps since all we're doing here is looking at what is good about maps.
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How about one big flat square with bases in every corner and a couple xel naga towers. I don't think zerg could lose on this map. Every thing you add from there is slightly anti-zerg in some way or another.
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Pretty much metalopolis cross positions is about as good as it gets for us zergies. Watchtowers to see them coming a mile away, wide open third, solid airspace to spot drops, easy to take 5 bases., relatively harassable third base.
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Your map kinda reminds me of Backwater Gulch in terms of layout, though I guess making it large with long rush distances would be a good step in mapmaking.
On one hand, a lot of Zergs want an easy natural and an easy 3rd base due to the nature of Zerg macro requiring one more base than the opponent. However, for every base that is easy to take for a Zerg, it may be easier to take for a Terran or Protoss. I think that's the reason why the GSL maps haven't been as Zerg favored as expected. Terrans and Protosses were having a very easy time quickly taking the free 3rd expansion, which prompts Zerg to expand to riskier expansions later on.
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Pretty sure it doesn't exist right now don't see any way to have a map that favors zerg people say blistering but idk how that maps dumb I hated it as zerg I felt like you had to all in roach/ling on that map so hard to keep a third.
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On March 10 2011 16:48 Axeinst wrote:
Why there should be map that is favorable for some race? why not make map that is equally favorable?
Easier said then done, particularly as new styles emerge and new units get better utilized. With Hellion play gaining popularity, wide open naturals are harder for Zerg players to take for example.
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Dreamliner (BW Map)
Only at muta harass stage though. Otherwise, it stunk for mid-late game.
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On March 10 2011 16:48 Axeinst wrote:
Why there should be map that is favorable for some race? why not make map that is equally favorable?
I think, but correct me if I'm wrong, the point is that some people believe that maps just can't really be "zerg favored" and that maps that are "good for zerg" are ones that are just not unfavorable to them.
I think this is an interesting point. A lot of people thought big maps and easy to take expansions, for example GSL Terminus Re, would favor zergs more but it turns out having easy to take expansions seems to favor terran and protoss just as much and that zerg macro without early pressure doesn't seem to be exorbitantly better than terran or protoss macroing up with the long rush distances either.
Edit: well I'm a slow typer because the OP responded to the quote already but I agree with the response that I actually don't know what is really "zerg favored" either.
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In my opinion, a combination of the following will favour zerg.
- long rush distance
- relatively short air distance between first 3(4) bases
- relatively open area that you must cross to attack
- easily defensible natural and 3rd
- 4-6 tiles of space behind mineral lines.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/thumb/6/6d/188_Destination.jpg/400px-188_Destination.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/202_Neo%20Medusa.jpg)
