|
From john on the gomtv.net forums
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/forum/6367
On December 01 2010 Junnka wrote:
I am getting tired of being accused that we rig the maps. Here are some facts.
1) I know nobody will believe me but maps are picked randomly. I spent 20 minutes building this stupid box in which we put papers with map names and draw them out. We take turns to draw the papers and also make sure it is properly mixed after drawing. It is very dull process but we do not complain. Please do not mention math because chance of winning lottery is about same chance as getting struck by lightening few times yet in reality people still win lotteries.
2) Why not use custom maps? Because GSL is open tournament and people without team can only practice on ladder. Of course it is possible to distribute custom maps through homepage but sadly not all SC2 players watch GSL. I do not think Blizzard will approve it anyway.
3) Why did we get rid of veto system? I remember viewers including many of you here complaining it was boring to see matches played on same maps over and over again. Also in the final it is best out of 7 and best of 5 in ro8&4 so players will eventually have to get confident on maps they do not like.
I'm kinda sad that people are accusing gomtv of fixing maps. I think this is very clear and is a great explination of what is going on.
|
Well now with words straight from Junkka's mouth we can settle this map choosing funny business.
..and then getting back to bracket rigging. jk.
|
I honestly thought that both brackets and maps were selected to encourage entertaining games and help certain players advance.
Hearing this from John though I am confident that the maps are indeed random.
Also lol @ I spent 20 minutes building this stupid box in which we put papers with map names and draw them out.
|
I don't believe people are upset that gom rigged the maps for a certain race; more like blizzard rigged the maps for certain races and the fact that you can't veto really sucks.
The no veto system is the complaint really, and this doesn't actually address it convincingly at all.
|
Agreed. I can't stand it when any slightly unlikely thing happens (either in SC or anywhere else in the world) and immediately people are creating conspiracy theory scenarios.
Everyone wants to feel smarter than the rest of the world, and act like they know about all this hidden secretive stuff going on behind the scenes... except none of it actually exists. It gets old.
|
They should stream (with a webcam, not the big stuff) the map drawing things :D
|
if the really want to put it to rest all they have to do is say we are doing it 7:00 tomorrow players are welcome to show up and watch. Im sure Idra would show up
|
humans are stupid. this is like someone praying to god for rain and then it happens to rain, so obviously god is real instead of sometimes it rains
|
In the end the only thing i disagree with is the map selection for the qualifiers. I feel that if scrap station was not in the map pool there would be a lot more protoss in the tournament. What they could do for the qualifiers is choose 5 maps in a specific order and then before the game starts each players chooses 1 map from the pool to remove.
|
At least map imbalances will be more commonly seen and Blizzard will have to do something.
Your maps suck and are small and boring Blizzard. Sad but true.
|
I don't like #2. GSL is the centerpiece of competitive sc2, if they don't use custom maps then who will? Only other answer is blizzard (and we dont like them  ).
|
If you draw maps, why not film it? It's 2010, everything can be on camera.
|
Well since the majority of blizzard maps arent good, if chosen randomly, chances are likely that the map pool will be imbalanced, thus gom doesn't rig the maps, its just a high probability that the map pool will be garbage when chosen randomly.
|
I don't think anyone with any common sense actually thought GOM was rigging which maps were selected, but removing the ability to veto is making all the various map imbalances plain to see and most people don't like it.
|
LOL it's pretty funny how he builds a box to draw the names, you'd think they'd have a random map generator program or something but no it's a box ... ahha, so awesome
|
lol I want to see a picture of the box.
In my mind it is either like 1 of 2 things. This perfectly constructed magnificent box with great SC fan art all around it, or a complete POS shoebox with construction paper taped to it.
What I can't figure out is if 20 minutes is a really short amount of time to make a great box, or actually a really long amount of time.
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
There are two issues here. The first is that people got bored of seeing the same maps again and again. The second is that plenty of the maps are unfair to one of the players. There's a simple solution to both problems.
Build better maps. This will come with time, but seeing as how map balance might've been the single most integral component to BW balance, it's amazing that they haven't gotten together some people to start developing an actual map pool that is fun to watch, and not ridiculously favored to one player or another. I really hope they get on that now and start making up for lost time. Every time we see a zerg die on DQ to a tank on the ridge, it's honestly a blow to the credibility of the tournament.
|
+ Show Spoiler +On December 01 2010 05:22 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 00:47 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 01 2010 00:41 Krallin wrote:
Any tournament organizer does this purposefully, you do not want to have name players kicking each other out in the RO64.
The fact is that they don't have meaningful rankings at the moment, so they're forced to really on information like Boxer saying his best MU is TvT.
Once they do have rankings, brackets will probably be determined using them (because this way, they will provide the most interesting/entertaining/uncertain games).
You don't see Nadal playing Federer in the first round of any tennis tournament, do you?
Tennis seeding is based on past performance while GSL seeding is based on what will get the most viewers. And now we take a look at the WC 2010 South Africa seeding. South Africa - the host nation - gets a better seed disregarding their past performance. Is the FIFA rigging the brackets? About the "map rigging". Let's look at ZvT. Total amount of maps? 9. Total amount of "unfair" maps? 4 (Steppes, Delta, LT, Jungle). Mathstuff: + Show Spoiler +
(x y) means (x over y):
There is a total number of mapcombinations: (9 3) = 84
#possibilities of getting 3 "bad" maps - (4 3) * (5 0) = 4 * 1
#possibilities of getting 2 "bad" maps - (4 2) *(5 1) = 6 * 5
#possibilities of getting 1 "bad" map - (4 1) * (5 2) = 4 * 10
#possibilities of getting 0 "bad" maps - (4 0) * (5 3) = 1 * 10
Chances:
3 bad maps: 4/84
2 bad maps: 30/84
1 bad map: 40/84
0 bad maps: 10/84
Now for the GSL3
It's Zergname - Terranname - number of bad maps for zerg
RO64:
Nestea - Syj - 1
jookToJung - LittleBoy - 0
Sleep - Maka - 2
DreamizEr - Rain 1
NewDawn - Rainbow - 1
Haypro - BitByBit - 0
Kyrix - JSL - 2
NEXLine - Foxer - 2
Leenock - Clide - 2
ST_Max - Hyperdub - 1
Zenio - alive - 2
NsP.Joon - Polt - 1
Drug - Jinro - 2
Moon - ButterflyEffect - 1
Check - NEXDestinatino - 2
RO32:
NewDawn - BitByBit - 1
Fruitdealer - sCfOu - 2
Ret - TheBestfOu - 2
Monster - Foxer - 3
July - aLivefOu - 2
That's a total of 20 matches.
3 bad maps: 1
2 bad maps: 10
1 bad map: 7
0 bad maps: 2
Now let's compare the "perfect" distribution vs "real" distribution: 3 bad maps: 4.8% vs 5% 2 bad maps: 35.7% vs 50% 1 bad map: 47.6% vs 35% 0 bad maps: 11.9% vs 10% Sorry - this doesnt looks rigged towards certain players for me. Sure they could rig every map selection so it evens out at the end - but _really_? It looks so bad for Z in ZvT, because people consider ~50% (44%) of the available maps bad. Not because of the mapselection. About Boxer (ignoring the fact that they seed the Top4 in different brackets): Chances of TvT in RO64 GSL2: 23/63 = 36% Chances of TvT in RO64 GSL3: 27/63 = 43% Getting TvT in both RO64: 15% It's not really that unlikely. But an interesting fact (edit): They said they put the Top4 in different brackets. That changed from GSL2 to GSL3. Top4 in GSL1 was Rainbow, Cool, Ensare, NEXLiveForever But in GSL2 Ensnare & Cool where in the same bracket - they could meet in RO8.
If you read this post, you wouldn't think GomTV would rig the maps anyway...the problem is that:
It looks so bad for Z in ZvT, because people consider ~50% (44%) of the available maps bad. Not because of the mapselection.
|
Maps are fine. Boxes OP.
Conspiracy theorists are going: "Ah Ha! They're obviously creasing the Steppes of War sheet. Creasing imba! Use colored balls."
|
On December 01 2010 11:28 darmousseh wrote:
3) Why did we get rid of veto system? I remember viewers including many of you here complaining it was boring to see matches played on same maps over and over again. Also in the final it is best out of 7 and best of 5 in ro8&4 so players will eventually have to get confident on maps they do not like.
Silly GomTV, listening to feedback from StarCraft fans. If I've learned anything from the Beta, it's that we will always, always find a way to complain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
