EPT
As for me, the only thing I thought wasn't entirely random were the brackets and the spread of players
After this OP, I can almost assume I'm right or it would have been addressed as well
[GSL] John: The truth behind the maps - Page 2
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
As for me, the only thing I thought wasn't entirely random were the brackets and the spread of players After this OP, I can almost assume I'm right or it would have been addressed as well | ||
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Zyphen
United States258 Posts
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On December 01 2010 Junnka wrote: 3) Why did we get rid of veto system? I remember viewers including many of you here complaining it was boring to see matches played on same maps over and over again. Also in the final it is best out of 7 and best of 5 in ro8&4 so players will eventually have to get confident on maps they do not like. Wait a minute, they removed the vetos because they didn't want to have the same maps over and over again, only to end up with season 3 where we're seeing the same maps over and over again? If that was their concern, and I don't doubt that they did the paper box thing, after seeing that "hey, it looks like we have steppes of war, oh, only every match ever", why not just remove certain maps from the box during some picks just to diversify it up a little? Or why not just do a rotating list thing so that every map sees play, since that was their intent anyways. | ||
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teacash
Canada494 Posts
Maybe that is a better solution? | ||
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hitman133
United States1425 Posts
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On December 01 2010 Junnka wrote: 2) Why not use custom maps? Because GSL is open tournament and people without team can only practice on ladder. Of course it is possible to distribute custom maps through homepage but sadly not all SC2 players watch GSL. I do not think Blizzard will approve it anyway. I sure hope Blizzard wouldnt be that lame. edit: I cant believe enough people accused them of map fixing that they needed to say this. | ||
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
On December 01 2010 12:18 Krigwin wrote: If that was their concern, and I don't doubt that they did the paper box thing, after seeing that "hey, it looks like we have steppes of war, oh, only every match ever", why not just remove certain maps from the box during some picks just to diversify it up a little? Or why not just do a rotating list thing so that every map sees play, since that was their intent anyways. I agree about rotations. If however, they decided to remove certain maps during some picks - it wouldn't be random and that would guarantee people gaining fodder for 'Why did Moon have Steppes removed from the box against Jinro' and all that. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
Steppes - Z complain LT - Z complain DQ - Z complain Scrap - T complain Meta close - Z complain Meta far away - T complain ( slightly) Shakuras - alright pretty neutral Xelnaga- not much complain except maybe PvZ a little So people basically only doesnt complain when the map pool is xelnaga shakuras metal. | ||
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Zyphen
United States258 Posts
On December 01 2010 12:19 hitman133 wrote: Random ?How come every match is pretty much the same. I mean, New Dawn, Ret, FD all have steppes of war ? Random doesn't mean automatic equal distribution, especially given the small data set. Even an octopus can get lucky and pick the winning soccer team 10 times in a row. Plus, it's obviously a crooked box. | ||
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kvn4444
1510 Posts
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StifSokSamurai
United States120 Posts
This made me smile too | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
GOM needs to take the next step forward: hire the profesional map-makers responsible for creating BW maps used in OGN/MBC/Kespa tournaments and leagues. If GOM is unsure whether this will be allowed by Blizzard then they need to open that discussion up with them. Having an assumption of the matter will not be an excuse in the future. I also am unable to understand the worry that using non-Blizzard maps will somehow give an advantage to players on teams. As long as the map is available on bnet for everyone to use and players are made aware of the map's use in GSL tournaments, all players will practice on it. With over 3000 people competing and other players just wanting balanced maps it should not be difficult at all to find ways to get practice. | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
Like I said in the Boxer forum thread... people are just so paranoid on these forums. and its incredibly annoying because there's always some conspiracy theory going on with tons of ignorant posts. | ||
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Juxx
325 Posts
On December 01 2010 12:19 Mastermind wrote: I sure hope Blizzard wouldnt be that lame. edit: I cant believe enough people accused them of map fixing that they needed to say this. I'm pretty sure David Kim said that the ladder maps werent ment for tournaments and that if they wanted to use custom maps for tournaments they didn't really care. | ||
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HollowLord
United States3862 Posts
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1170 Posts
On December 01 2010 12:24 dtz wrote: well to be fair people complain about almost all of the maps lol. especially regarding TvZ so the whole thing is amplified. Steppes - Z complain LT - Z complain DQ - Z complain Scrap - T complain Meta close - Z complain Meta far away - T complain ( slightly) Shakuras - alright pretty neutral Xelnaga- not much complain except maybe PvZ a little So people basically only doesnt complain when the map pool is xelnaga shakuras metal. Maybe that's what they should be playing then. Everyone playing the same 3 maps, it would seem balanced to everyone. You could argue that it may turn out to be boring, but hey if players can't come up with their own innovative plays after playing on a map for so long, then it's the fault of the game. Are people tired of watching Pathfinder->Gladiator->Aztec on OSL? Don't think so. Sure, there are imba comments, but everyone is playing on a level playing field - they cannot be accused of map rigging. Also, PL recently took Central Plains out of their map pool because every game on it turned out to be a PvP, it's not that hard to change your map rotation if it heavily favors a certain race. I think it would be beneficial to e-sports if Blizzard did something about their maps if GSL only played 3-4 of the current ladder maps citing imbalance as the reason for not using the rest. It might spur a more active map making process from Blizzard - that is what we want yes? Also it would change the state of the solo ladder - Iccup users have the privilege to play on the same map cycle as the pros - with it changing every few months. To everyone saying the other thread should have been closed: Isn't it great that we got a response from GOM? At least they acknowledge it and are doing something about it - it helps. PS - He seems pissed about having to make a box. Could stick a bunch of Mutas on it and be like magic box magic box. | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
On December 01 2010 12:34 Pawshter wrote: I'm pretty sure David Kim said that the ladder maps werent ment for tournaments and that if they wanted to use custom maps for tournaments they didn't really care. He might mean Blizzard Korea | ||
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
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dtz
5834 Posts
On December 01 2010 12:32 setzer wrote: John is an awesome guy, but the reason for not using custom BALANCED maps is a total cop-out. Does anyone really want to watch GSL 5 months down the road using blistering sands and steppes of war because Blizzard takes too long to update their pool, just like with WC3? NO. GOM needs to take the next step forward: hire the profesional map-makers responsible for creating BW maps used in OGN/MBC/Kespa tournaments and leagues. If GOM is unsure whether this will be allowed by Blizzard then they need to open that discussion up with them. Having an assumption of the matter will not be an excuse in the future. I also am unable to understand the worry that using non-Blizzard maps will somehow give an advantage to players on teams. As long as the map is available on bnet for everyone to use and players are made aware of the map's use in GSL tournaments, all players will practice on it. With over 3000 people competing and other players just wanting balanced maps it should not be difficult at all to find ways to get practice. Only the first 3 GSL is Open. They have said that for the future GSLs they are looking towards having custom maps, hopefully balanced ones. So hopefully they'll get that sorted out. But it's understandable that for Open tournaments, they have to use ladder maps because it's so much harder for people who does not have teams to practice customs and the open tournament is supposed to give fair chance to everyone. InControl says IdrA practices mainly on the ladder as well. c4rn, everyone else who trains in PC Bang won't be able to find adequate practice. | ||
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bovi
Japan208 Posts
I do not think Blizzard will approve it anyway. that's such a shame. why isn't blizzard supporting sc2 / esports like they always claim they will and cough up some new maps or at least commission some? their logo is all over the gom tv studios... apart from the game and the licence, why can't they contribute more? Great 3 points by John. esp the last 1. Its really bad to see the same maps being played over and over. | ||
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