EPTAlso, John's reasoning for using Blizzard maps as opposed to a set of custom maps is completely weak. It's been shown that the competitive community will play maps if major leagues adopt them. If not as part of the ladder system, you would see much more 1v1 custom games using those maps. Blizzard's ladder system is just flawed and doomed to fail in the long run anyway for this precise reason. Eventually tournament organizers are going to realize that they can't sit around and wait for Blizzard to approve new maps and add them into the ladder rotation every single time because it hinders the development and progress of the game from a competitive standpoint. His comment about Blizzard potentially not approving of using non-ladder maps is just sad to me...
[GSL] John: The truth behind the maps - Page 7
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
Also, John's reasoning for using Blizzard maps as opposed to a set of custom maps is completely weak. It's been shown that the competitive community will play maps if major leagues adopt them. If not as part of the ladder system, you would see much more 1v1 custom games using those maps. Blizzard's ladder system is just flawed and doomed to fail in the long run anyway for this precise reason. Eventually tournament organizers are going to realize that they can't sit around and wait for Blizzard to approve new maps and add them into the ladder rotation every single time because it hinders the development and progress of the game from a competitive standpoint. His comment about Blizzard potentially not approving of using non-ladder maps is just sad to me... | ||
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Leviwtf
174 Posts
On December 02 2010 05:44 Fa1nT wrote: The first 2 matches (for say steppes) accounting for 88 of the total games played on it? Not really. I read this several times and I'm not following, I'm saying that it makes sense because if you look at the total distribution numbers they are all close to the ideal 11.11% percent. Probably within 1 standard deviation. On December 02 2010 05:56 LegendaryZ wrote: Why are people suddenly up in arms about giving players the right to veto maps? What? Pretty sure people are up in arms about the complete opposite. The fact that players have no right to veto maps and they are forced to play on unbalanced maps. On December 02 2010 05:56 LegendaryZ wrote: Also, John's reasoning for using Blizzard maps as opposed to a set of custom maps is completely weak. It's been shown that the competitive community will play maps if major leagues adopt them. If not as part of the ladder system, you would see much more 1v1 custom games using those maps. Blizzard's ladder system is just flawed and doomed to fail in the long run anyway for this precise reason. Eventually tournament organizers are going to realize that they can't sit around and wait for Blizzard to approve new maps and add them into the ladder rotation every single time because it hinders the development and progress of the game from a competitive standpoint. His comment about Blizzard potentially not approving of using non-ladder maps is just sad to me... Its basically a big FU to Blizz saying that your maps suck and we aren't going to use them. It is a compelling argument as Gom doesn't want to do anything to offend Blizzard. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 02 2010 05:49 Lonyo wrote: That problem partly goes away when you get to next years GSL setup, where many games will be played by a pre-selected pool of players, rather than having an open tournament. They could introduce at least some custom maps. There's still the A Code tournaments though, with spots that will in turn be open to top players on the ladder (at least I read that on TL somewhere). If true, that setup is still tied-in with the ladder and allows for the influx of new faces into the scene, which is as it should be. On December 02 2010 05:56 LegendaryZ wrote: It's been shown that the competitive community will play maps if major leagues adopt them. If not as part of the ladder system, you would see much more 1v1 custom games using those maps. Not in this game it hasn't. For better or worse, Blizzard accomplished what they intended to with the bnet 2.0 and other steps they've taken to ensure that the competitive community isn't ran independently from them in any way. I'm pretty sure you won't be seeing any by-passing of Battle.net ladders and map pool by any major leagues or tournaments in the foreseeable future (and if that eventually does happen, it will pretty much mean that SC2 is falling apart). Our only realistic hope really is that Blizzard fixes the official map pool. | ||
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rally_point
Canada458 Posts
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palookieblue
Australia326 Posts
On December 02 2010 05:32 SichuanPanda wrote: Map choice wouldn't be an issue at all if they didn't use Blizzard's horrendous pieces of crap. Blizzard maps are good for one thing and one thing only - balanced towards the PLAYERS in that any skill level player can feel confident on Blizzard's maps. For high level play on the other hand they are simply abysmal. In all seriousness the GSL using Blizzard's maps is akin to using a frozen pond to play NHL hockey on as opposed to a properly maintained rink. I think this sums up just how little most people know about this game. Maps are the SINGLE, BIGGEST factor to match up balance. Bad maps are bad regardless of the players playing on them. Try playing English Premier League soccer inside a high-school gym. That would be the same as forcing top-level pros to play on Blizzard's maps especially for so much money. Whoa there, drama queen. Hold your horsies. Firstly, your analogies to hockey and soccer are, as in your own words: horrendous pieces of crap. The closet comparison I can think of in profession sport is tennis (where the surfaces change), but even that doesn't really make sense. Also, no one is forcing players to do anything. GSL is just one tournament, (albeit the largest and most lucrative one) and people are free to attend or not attend. Secondly, you didn't even mention which maps you thought to be 'horrendous pieces of crap'. In my humble opinion, the only ones which have fatal design flaws were two in the original pool: Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine. Personally (again, my opinion), I don't feel that any of the current maps are ridiculous in their architecture/ layout/ size (maybe Lost Temple could be improved). Finally, I don't see any strong evidence showing particular races struggling on particular maps. Of course people will reply: 'ohhhhh but that just means those guys played BETTER (fruit, etc.)', and I'm not going to be baited by trolls. As a sidenote, people should learn how basic probability works before accusing GOMTv of anything. You'll find that 'unlikely' events can occur more often than you think. The amount of people QQ'ing about certain players getting favourable or unfavourable matchups/ maps gives me brain cancer, as Tasteless says. | ||
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whataballer
United States82 Posts
2. Why does it take 20 minutes to make? | ||
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Firereaver
India1701 Posts
No veto rule changes the set so much that often MAP defeats a player esp. when playing against someone with gameplay suited to a particular map. The whole point of vetoing is so that abusive strats CAN be lessened! THIS IS THE BIGGEST REASON THIS GSL HAS HAD SO MANY ALL-INS, CHEESE and ABUSE inspite of overall level being higher than even the last GSL! | ||
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DayJP
Brazil477 Posts
wat? does blizzard have to approve anything? O_o | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
Please. > < | ||
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Pintos
United States39 Posts
On December 01 2010 12:32 setzer wrote: I also am unable to understand the worry that using non-Blizzard maps will somehow give an advantage to players on teams. As long as the map is available on bnet for everyone to use and players are made aware of the map's use in GSL tournaments, all players will practice on it. With over 3000 people competing and other players just wanting balanced maps it should not be difficult at all to find ways to get practice. It's exactly as you said, the maps will likely be available to the general public, but how are you (as a single player) going to practice these maps over and over with skilled players unless you are on a team? | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10292 Posts
Oh good point (2), didn't think of that (people without teams can only really practice on Bliz maps because they would have to use laddering as their main practice) | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On December 02 2010 06:52 Pintos wrote: It's exactly as you said, the maps will likely be available to the general public, but how are you (as a single player) going to practice these maps over and over with skilled players unless you are on a team? Play a custom with the other thousands of people practicing on the same maps? | ||
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