EPTno one reads the forums on gom, much less posts, I love that he takes the time to give answers
[GSL] John: The truth behind the maps - Page 3
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mOnion
United States5660 Posts
no one reads the forums on gom, much less posts, I love that he takes the time to give answers | ||
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Denizen[9]
United States649 Posts
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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biskit
Australia355 Posts
Blizzard should introduce more balanced maps so there will be less conspiracy theory and more map variations. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On December 01 2010 13:14 MrMotionPicture wrote: I see no problem in getting rid of the veto system. If they are truly the best player, they can still win, right? Complete bullshit ;/ You can be a better player but still not be so much better that you can overcome a hueg imbalance. | ||
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cody1024d
107 Posts
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zor.au
Australia270 Posts
If blizzard fixed up the currents maps or released some new more balanced maps we wouldn't be having this discussion. A prime example is, I as many thought WTF when they saw ST_Monsters map lineup vs MarineKing(Foxer). | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
On December 01 2010 13:39 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Complete bullshit ;/ You can be a better player but still not be so much better that you can overcome a hueg imbalance. Jinro fighting! Here's what Im curious about though... If a map is Zerg favored... then it is unbalanced(Scrap station, cross metal), if it's Zerg unfavored, then it is also unbalanced. I feel like maps and people's approach to them are from a zerg standpoint, and it appears from GSL when Artosis and Tasteless talk about maps, they talk about it from a zerg point of view. From the top of my head, the only balanced map that stands out is Xel Naga caverns and Shakura plateau. | ||
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PhatCop
Australia70 Posts
For example, it was cited that since in the finals players won't be able to veto maps, that all players shouldn't be able to from the beginning. However since many earlier rounds are BO3, players won't have other maps to fall back on like in a BO7. This is the luck factor involved that players have been complaining about. Citing viewer complaint in a case like this is also unconvincing. I understand that GOM is trying to incorporate community feedback to improve as much as possible, but in an issue like this, people are going to complain no matter what. More consultation with players should have occurred and discussions held before a major decision like this is made. Also as GSL starting next year won't be open tournaments, does that mean we can expect to see some custom maps? | ||
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readysetbro
United States29 Posts
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
Blizzard is making decent maps, and continue removing and adding new ones to the ladder pool. I don't think GOM will ever branch to the custom map area. The maps would become hard to distribute and the players probably wouldn't get as much practice on them as they would like. The game is still fairly new, maybe here soon we will see the progamers realize that a 15 hatch opening on Steppes isn't the greatest idea. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On December 01 2010 12:24 dtz wrote: So people basically only doesnt complain when the map pool is xelnaga shakuras metal. And not surprisingly those are the only 3 maps worth playing. The rest need to be tossed out and left to die in a fire. By removing the veto system you imbalance the game in favor of the other races plain and simple. Sure there's A favored zerg map (Scrap), but there's also a Protoss auto-win (Jungle), Protoss favored maps (Steppes), and very favorable Terran maps (DQ, LT, Steppes). So while it's not biasing the system in the sense of hand picking maps, you're almost sure to bias it against zerg given our current pool. It's not GOM's fault our map pool sucks so much, but they're now opting to exchange balanced maps for a wider map diversity. It's understandable, but it's still clear what the effect is going to be. Given that you can't veto Zergs are really really lucky that there's almost no qualified protoss players. I still <3 Junkka though. EDIT: Saying don't 15 hatch on Steppes is pretty ignorant. First off the game is reasonably balanced when zergs DO get to 15/14 hatch so playing on a map where that's not possible is immediately a little troublesome for zergs. Beyond that though it's not the opening that makes the map tough. It's the fact that certain pushes arrive much faster and 1 round of vomitted larva can make the difference between winning and losing. It's also the fact that you can't play as much of a pressure game to keep them from pushing. On a larger map you can harass and they can't move out without taking heavy losses. On Steppes it's much easier for the T/P to get into a position where they can force your units back to defend because they're right on top of your natural. That really changes the mid game dynamic for Zerg. Besides Steppes isn't even really the worst map in the pool for zerg in many ways (Jungle ZvP is the worst imo). | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
Once it has become popular, Blizzard might add it into their map pool, then GSL will update as well. Everyone has to work together, maybe it's about time to do something ourself as a community, and not being a whiny bitch. For example, I never played the ICCUP maps, but from what I heard, those maps aren't counted in the official ICCUP. How do you expect custom maps get popular without forcing them into tournaments and all, IMO everyone needs to take some responsibility, and don't expect Blizzard to baby feed you. | ||
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theherder2
United States538 Posts
On December 01 2010 13:50 adeezy wrote: Jinro fighting! Here's what Im curious about though... If a map is Zerg favored... then it is unbalanced(Scrap station, cross metal), if it's Zerg unfavored, then it is also unbalanced. I feel like maps and people's approach to them are from a zerg standpoint, and it appears from GSL when Artosis and Tasteless talk about maps, they talk about it from a zerg point of view. From the top of my head, the only balanced map that stands out is Xel Naga caverns and Shakura plateau. Its because Zerg is the only race in which its attacking style is much different than the other races. This is in general, but when you talk about zerg you talk about SWARMS so they need large open maps. but for terran and protoss you always hear about the big unit BALL so they prefer smaller corridors and walls/cliffs etc. Thats why I feel as if its easier to say Zerg favored/unfavored rather than specifically terran or protoss favored, because their styles can be similar. | ||
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zor.au
Australia270 Posts
On December 01 2010 13:50 adeezy wrote: Jinro fighting! Here's what Im curious about though... If a map is Zerg favored... then it is unbalanced(Scrap station, cross metal), if it's Zerg unfavored, then it is also unbalanced. I feel like maps and people's approach to them are from a zerg standpoint, and it appears from GSL when Artosis and Tasteless talk about maps, they talk about it from a zerg point of view. From the top of my head, the only balanced map that stands out is Xel Naga caverns and Shakura plateau. I understand what your saying and agree to a certain extent(artosis takes it overboard though) but take steppes of war for example - While this may sound silly, the unbalance towards zerg on this map is so much more then say unbalance towards terran on metro with on x-positions. | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On December 01 2010 14:23 theherder2 wrote: Its because Zerg is the only race in which its attacking style is much different than the other races. This is in general, but when you talk about zerg you talk about SWARMS so they need large open maps. but for terran and protoss you always hear about the big unit BALL so they prefer smaller corridors and walls/cliffs etc. Thats why I feel as if its easier to say Zerg favored/unfavored rather than specifically terran or protoss favored, because their styles can be similar. Terran and Protoss have more flexibility too because of their diverse units. If a map is narrow and full of chokes the Protoss can make more or less sentries to take advantage of that and a Terran can lean more on tanks. If a map is wide open a Terran may lean more on bio and drops while a Protoss might try to transition to HTs faster. For stuff like distances it may adjust what kind of timings you go for or how many sentries you feel you need. It matters, but not nearly as much as it does for zerg. With Zerg you're choices aren't as distinct. An infestor is as good in the open as it is in a choke, roach/hydra/lings all want the same thing (open area), even banelings are wary of chokes. Likewise features like destructible rocks are nice, but can be walled off or FFed and the zerg needs to dig into its economy early on to really make an aggressive play that takes advantage of such features. Basically to take advantage of map features Terran and Protoss can skew their plan or composition slightly. As zerg any Terrain abuse leans more on coming up with a distinct and separate strategy. So someone might think, hmmm why is Scrap Zerg favored then? Well from what I can tell the one really nice thing about scrap for zerg is they get an easy fast expo (long rush distance) while no other races do (wide ramps) and the same extends to their 3rd where it's easier for zerg to take and hold the 3rd than it is for other races due to it's position on the map. | ||
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Aegeis
United States1619 Posts
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proxY_
United States1561 Posts
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aztrorisk
United States896 Posts
I spent 20 minutes building this stupid box Hmmm, you don't like your creation? Stupid box? I don't think your building it right. Why don't you just go and buy a box? I'm sure the price of the box is worth less than your time. BTW: Boxes are never stupid. I <3 Boxes, one used to be my room when I was a little kid but when I turned 10, my parents made me live in the living room. Hmmff | ||
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